the flying dutchman

I don't believe in it. At least, not in the fact that you can create a new
cultivar that way. Maybe it can change the plants characteristics but that
will only apply to the "grafted" plant.
It's well known that plants influence each other, even without being grafted. For example, cuttings of Buxus grow much better when they are
planted next to each other then in separate pots. Why? No one knows.
They just grow better.
If grafting would create new cultivars we had thousands of new cultivars
from many species of plants, even potatoes.
So, changing the growth characteristics is quite something else then creating a new cultivar.

My 2 cents.

Mauro Gibo

Thank you for your comment frog 7994. I went to my orchar and made a video of my grown bananas. Let's see if they can survive the harsh winter.

This video is new.
Best Regards,
Mauro Gibo.

harveyc

Hello Mauro - I don't recall you saying how cold you get there. Have you had much frost yet? How low do your temperatures reach in the winter?

Best wishes,

Harvey

__________________

momoese

I'm curious to know if you have dug up any of your "grafts" to see what the union looks like after they have grown some.

Mauro Gibo

Hi, harveyc. The weatherman said we will have frost this coming week. When it snows the temperature reaches about 0 degree centigrade. On February it gets to be pretty cold because we have a wind current that comes from Siberia where it sometimes reaches 72 degrees below zero centigrades. It's a freezing wind. To tell you the truth I am amazed at the Musa Basjoo. It grows wild around here and the cold doesn't hurt it very much. If you see its growth around here you would not call it a tropical plant.
The Japanese brought the Musa Basjoo from China about 400 to 500 years ago, and I think it found a way to hibernate during the winter. It becomes dormant but doesn't die and in the early spring it starts growing again. It grows very tall in the summer. Even in Brazil I haven't seen such a tall banana tree.
It's a little early but I wish you a Merry Christmas.
Bye.
Mauro

harveyc

WOW, -72C!!!

Thanks, Happy Advent and Merry Christmas to you!

Harvey

__________________

Mauro Gibo

I didn't dig any of my grafts yet. I really don't know what happens to the union. But I know the difference between the pups when they come out of the ground. I have some tricks, let's say a knowhow that I have not shared with you all. The scientists that work for large fruit companies in Latin America want to know about it. But I din't tell them. I've been experimenting for about 5 years. I acquired a lot of knowlege about the behavior of the banana plants during these past years. It's like going to college for 5 years, so I am saving the pleasure of harvesting fresh grafted bananas for myself. After I accomplish my goal I will share it with you all.
Thank you for your interest and enthusiasm.
I wish you a Merry Christmas.
Bye. Mauro.

jeffreyp

I was thinking perhaps some benefit could be obtained from grafting onto a basjoo corm that would come from the sap. I know that in citrus Trifoliate rootstock affects the potential size of the plant and increases hardiness.

Mauro Gibo

In the beginning I could tell if it was a musa basjoo pup or a raja puri pup, but as they grew taller they started changing their characteristics. The collor of the trunk started changing, after a while I couldn't tell which one was which. If you watch my new video, you will notice that it is hard to tell what variety it is.
It looks to be a musa basjoo but it isn't. It looks to be a raja puri, but it looks different. So I came to the conclusion that they are half breeds. I think they exchanged some kind of cells during their growth. I am puzzled by my own experiment.
Let's wait and see how much they will influence each other.
Your point of view is quite interesting.
Thank you.
Bye.
Mauro

Mauro Gibo

-72 in Siberia not Japan. We get -20 in Hokkaido, North Japan. I'm in the middle land. It's only 0 degree around here.

harveyc

Oh! If you only get down to 0C, you should have plenty of bananas that can survive. I'm at -1C right now and most of my bananas look "okay". This is my sixth morning of frost in the past three weeks. Winter is early here this year but I've still got a banana bunch hanging on one plant right now.

__________________

Mauro Gibo

Harveyc, please tell me what kind of bananas you are growing there. Especially the one with the bunch. Here in mainland Japan, there is no edible banana that bears fruits. By the way this year the frost is late. We didn't have any yet.
Harveyc, please check this site.
How do I winterize banana trees in North Carolina? - UBC Botanical Garden Forums

#6 November 4th, 2009, 12:42 PM
jpasquini
Contributor (30-99 posts) Join Date: May 2007
Location: Springfield, Illinois
Posts: 50

Re: How do I winterize banana trees in North Carolina?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We had a mini-golf course here in town (Springfield, IL) that had banana trees for many years in a row.
What I heard they did was they left the roots in the ground, grafted the trees off at about 6" from the ground in V's and then covered the roots in mulch so they didn't freeze.

The rumour was they kept the shafts indoors in their basement and then reattached them in the spring by 'plugging them back in' and staking, but I never talked to them personally or saw them do it. It was all a very interesting story. But the trees most certainly were there, year after year and quite large.
May be all hearsay and nonsense, but if it helps, so be it."

Grafting bananas is sounding more like a folks tale.
I heard these rumours in Brazil too.
But no one has actually seen them being grafted.
Bye.
Mauro.

harveyc

Hello Mauro,

You can check my profile for my full list of bananas, but that isn't as helpful since many of them have not lived a full winter outdoors yet. The ones I've grown for several years include an unknown variety (search "mystery busy bee banana" and you'll find photos, etc.) which most believe to be the tall form of Namwah. It was sold to me as Dwarf Orinoco in tissue culture form, but it flowered just under 11' tall the past two summers. It has survived outdoors several winters with temperatures dipping down 26F-28F but in January 2007 we got down to 20F and the plant died but sprouted back pups from the corm. I also had Rajapuri and Dwarf Brazilian with similar situations and they flowered for me in 2008 but not in 2009. My Ice Cream died completely in the January 2007 freeze. I also have some unknown bananas called California Gold and another called California Cold Hardy. These fruit for others in my area but I am still waiting. I have let a smudge pot (outdoor heater using various forms of petroleum, I burn used motor oil), but I haven't used it for over a week and this morning we got down to 26F. I did spray my banana with fruit with the water house at about 6:45am to help prevent freezing damage. If it wasn't for the fruit on the plant, I would just leave it alone and let the leaves be killed. I'll do this eventually and expect they to sprout new leaves from the top in the spring (unless it goes down to the low 20s).

My expensive Ae Ae have had more care such as being dug up and spending the winter in the greenhouse. Others will have to survive on their own as I'm not about to be wrapping every plant or diging them all up. I don't think I'd make it as a zone 8 (or lower) banana grower.

Best wishes,

Harvey

__________________

jeffreyp

I planted a Mysore next to a saba and the second generation of mysore corm was very tight against the saba corms. I did notice some very large growth of the mysore that grew maybe 40% larger than a typical mysore. Perhaps Moro is onto something. Could there be some possible growth factors in the corm/roots of the saba that were influencing the adjacent mysore corm? I didn't really pay much attention to it until this thread was brought up.

Mauro Gibo

Home > CABI Abstract
Title: Identification and selection of superior banana phenotypes in the cultivar Dwarf Cavendish using agronomic characteristics and RAPD markers.
Personal Authors: Gubbuk, H., Pekmezci, M., Onus, A. N., Erkan, M.
Author Affiliation: Department of Horticulture, Faculty of Agriculture, Akdeniz University, Antalya 07059, Turkey.
Editors: No editors
Document Title: Pakistan Journal of Botany

Abstract:
Banana off-types resulting from spontaneous mutations in field- and greenhouse-grown banana cv. Dwarf Cavendish in Turkey were identified. Mutations were identified based on the occurrence of altered agronomic parameters and via genetic polymorphisms as detected by random amplified polymorphic DNA (RAPD) analysis. The phenotypic characters evaluated included stem circumference, plant height, number of leaves at the flowering stage, bunch stalk circumference, number of fruit hands and fruits, bunch weight, and fruit circumference and length. Selection studies resulted in the identification of 48 off-types, 17 of which were identified in the field and 31 in the greenhouse. Eight of the selected off-types (2 from the field and 6 from the greenhouse) showed high levels of stability for various agronomic characters over a 3-year period of observation [years not given]. These off-types showed higher levels of variability for morphological characters affecting yield than the control Dwarf Cavendish. Genetic similarities between the types ranged from 0.550 to 0.913, whereas the genetic differences varied from 0.088 to 0.413, as determined by RAPD analysis. The high levels of genetic polymorphism among banana types indicated that the RAPD technique can be useful in evaluating banana intra-varietal genetic variation. Types Alanya 5, Gazipasa 11, Gazipasa 15, Anamur 10, Anamur 8 and Anamur 12 had the greatest similarities, whereas Alanya 5 and the control Dwarf Cavendish were the most distant types. The results indicated that selections on banana grown in subtropical conditions allowed the identification of superior types in terms of yield and quality.


Publisher: Pakistan Botanical Society

novisyatria

Hi
So far i know, grafting cannot create new hybrid. only fusion rootstock and scion which have different characteristic. so what is the purpose grafting bananas? maybe its can held permanent but each still different type and i think they pups will same like mother plant. grafting not same as breeding between pollen and anther from different typa which can create new hybrid.
thanks

__________________
Novi Syatria
Lab of Tissue Culture , Dept of Forestry, Faculty of Agriculture, Univercity of Bengkulu, Indonesia www.kuljar.com email: novi_syatria@yahoo.com

jeffreyp

Maybe some growth factors or something similar is shared when two corms are fused together?

Abnshrek

I think this thread is very interesting. I don't feel I need t go out and play god, but I think if plants fuse together which can happen they may share things that could possibly help or hinder the other plant :^) There's not 100's of types of banana's for no reason ...

__________________


I'm a Nannerhead :^)

Mauro Gibo

Until recently, I had the information that spontaneous mutation in the banana plants occurred only in the wild and very rarely. Now, I have new information that mutation occurs in banana plantations and inside the green houses more often than we expected. I still think clone variation or mutation in the banana plants occur more frequently. And if we give it a little push it will happen more often.
If my banana plant survive this winter will you allow me to call it a mutant?
Thank you for sharing your point of view.
I will continue my experiment until I grow tired of it. I hope I will get somewhere though. I've been trying for so long.

Richard

Mauro,

In the scheme of things, I think your test has been a short time. Keep up the spirit!

__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com