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Main Banana Discussion This is where we discuss our banana collections; tips on growing bananas, tips on harvesting bananas, sharing our banana photos and stories.


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Old 01-15-2010, 10:25 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

i was reading every ones new post and it occurred to me that perhaps and this is speculation on my part that if a specific gene or grouping of gene produce certain chemical environments with in the specified plant then this in and of its self creates a growth environment specific to this plant. if a new grope of cells were introduced in to the donors chemical environment at least on a superficial Level those cells would be affected to some degree in there metabolic and growth patterns would be altered.

for example. one could expect changes to leaf shape or fruit yields timing of fruiting and onset of offspring initiation could also be affected either positively or negatively. as i said this is speculation but it dose have a ring of logic to it.

there have been many studies done on both plant and animal cells where by the specific cells were subjected to altered chemical environments. this is the bases for drug studs. applying chemicals to a cell or group of cells and then analyzing how that cell reacts to the new environment. there are almost always some changes.

for example one mite expect to see timing rates change, cell wall densities changing + or -, slowing or speeding of metalization rates of reproduction and so on and so forth.

it stands to reason that if this graft is made. there is some effect of chemical transfer even if its only in the regions just adjacent to the graft its self. thees cells along the graft will behave inherently differently then the cells that are more distant from the graft. i would think this effect would relate to total cell volume. so there for the younger the graft the grater the effect on the organism in totality. whether this changes either plants life cycle remains to be seen. but i think it imprudent to put forth the supposition that there is no affect this is contrary to logic.

I hope this makes sens. being dyslexic makes thees concepts extremely hard for me to convey coherently.
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:07 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

hey mauro keep it up. dont stop your experiments/research untill you are satisfied.
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:30 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

I agree, have fun with your project!
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:03 PM   #104 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro





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Old 01-15-2010, 08:36 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Bananas Brindando Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

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Originally Posted by damaclese View Post
i was reading every ones new post and it occurred to me that perhaps and this is speculation on my part that if a specific gene or grouping of gene produce certain chemical environments with in the specified plant then this in and of its self creates a growth environment specific to this plant. if a new grope of cells were introduced in to the donors chemical environment at least on a superficial Level those cells would be affected to some degree in there metabolic and growth patterns would be altered.

for example. one could expect changes to leaf shape or fruit yields timing of fruiting and onset of offspring initiation could also be affected either positively or negatively. as i said this is speculation but it dose have a ring of logic to it.

there have been many studies done on both plant and animal cells where by the specific cells were subjected to altered chemical environments. this is the bases for drug studs. applying chemicals to a cell or group of cells and then analyzing how that cell reacts to the new environment. there are almost always some changes.

for example one mite expect to see timing rates change, cell wall densities changing + or -, slowing or speeding of metalization rates of reproduction and so on and so forth.

it stands to reason that if this graft is made. there is some effect of chemical transfer even if its only in the regions just adjacent to the graft its self. thees cells along the graft will behave inherently differently then the cells that are more distant from the graft. i would think this effect would relate to total cell volume. so there for the younger the graft the grater the effect on the organism in totality. whether this changes either plants life cycle remains to be seen. but i think it imprudent to put forth the supposition that there is no affect this is contrary to logic.

I hope this makes sens. being dyslexic makes thees concepts extremely hard for me to convey coherently.
Paulo, thank you for sharing your point of view. Lately, the president of my company said that the The days of the Big Three car makers are gone. Now we are at the age or era of the Small Hundreds. It is really wonderful that we can share and discuss our ideas and point of views from the four corners of the earth through the internet. I am not an expert in Botany. I am just a small guy who likes plants. Many people have asked me why graft banana plants? There is no meaning, no reason to do it. I started to think about it and then I remembered. I was quite surprised when I came to live in Okinawa and met an American family who had the skill to can a lot of vegetables including tomatoes. My family knew nothing about it. I asked myself why don't we have such skill? Then later on I understood why Brazilians didn't care to learn how to can or preserve vegetables. There is no need if you have fresh vegetables all year round. Brazil is a tropical and subtropical country, no cold winter. I think if I lived in a tropical country and grew bananas naturally I wouldn't care to graft them either. But as I live in a cold country, now, I have the urge to find a way to grow them here. I think I was lucky to find the musa basjoo to use as a root stock for my graftings. I can't prove anything yet, but one thing I can tell you, I do a lot of thinking and the messages you write to me give me a lot of inspiration and support. Maybe the friendship we build discussing the subject is more important than the experiment itself. I am counting on your comments. Thank you.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:39 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Hiya Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

I agree Mauro, there is a saying that necessity is the mother of invention. Even when I was a boy I attempted grafting apple branches onto a pear tree for the fun of it and to learn. Maybe something will become of your experiments ? Do not lose heart.

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Old 01-16-2010, 12:11 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

Hey Mauro,

I really like the fruiting papaya plant in your Avatar. Any idea what kind it is?
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Old 01-16-2010, 04:55 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Bananas Brindando Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

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Hey Mauro,

I really like the fruiting papaya plant in your Avatar. Any idea what kind it is?
I had this papaya plant in my yard in Okinawa. I bought the plant at a local nursery. I think it is a hybrid of the Hawaiian papaya which is very sweet. There are many kinds of papayas in Okinawa but they like to eat them green as a vegetable, like the Mexicans eat the chayote. In Brazil we always ate the papaya as a fruit when it is ripe. I think the Okinawans consider the papaya a vegetable, not a fruit. You never see them eating the papaya when it is ripe. Long time ago when I traveled to Manila, Philippines, I always ate the papaya in the morning breakfast with calamansi juice on it. It's delicious. Here in Japan we call the calamansi, Chinese little lemon. It tastes very good. I think Mr. Chong knows the calamansi lemon. I used to travel a lot here in Asia, especially China, but I've never seen the calamansi anywhere outside the Phillipines. Not even in Vietnam.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:26 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Mauro, there is no need to hide in a cave! I salute you for bringing this subject to everyone's attention. Trial and error is the fuel that leads to new discoveries. In fact, when I get some extra pups of something, I will do it here, too. As I mentioned in a message to you, I have some ideas I want to try with your experiment.
Your humility seems to be something that came from a graft between Brazil and Japan. I find this to be a quality that I need to practice myself. I enjoy reading your posts and hope that you will not stop. This site is for banana enthusiasts around the world and there is no question about your enthusiasm. Whether it be for experimentation, approval or simple appreciation of bananas, we are all here because of our interest in bananas. Keep on doing what you wish, I will read every word.
Hi, Scot !
I haven't heard from you lately. How are you? Here is some information about plants:
The fact that scientists now recognize that plants have an immune system is the result of pioneering work by Paul Schulze-Lefert, a director of the Plant Breeding Institute for eight years. Initially, plants were believed to have inflexible and underdeveloped defense systems, but in a series of publications, Schulze-Lefert described the molecular foundations of sophisticated protection mechanisms. While they have neither circulation nor specialized immune cells, plants do have a dual radar system in each cell, one external and one internal. The external radar consists of a series of receptors. When one of these recognizes a pathogen, it sets off an alarm that triggers a defensive response. If the pathogen still manages to penetrate into the cell, it comes up against a second line of defense. If the relevant sensor is triggered the cell undergoes apoptosis, as a way of protecting the rest of the plant. "These two radar screens are a highly dynamic system based on resistance genes that constantly develop in the race against pests," says Schulze-Lefert. "The fact that whole crops are sometimes destroyed by pathogens has to do with the constraints placed on this co-evolutionary process ever since the pool of resistance genes started being restricted by breeding and vegetative reproduction. Our job is to give the plants new resistance genes, ideally combinations of them."

Last edited by Mauro Gibo : 01-22-2010 at 07:28 PM. Reason: Trying to prove that there are comunication between one cell and another in plants.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:32 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

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... I've never seen the calamansi anywhere outside the Phillipines. Not even in Vietnam.
They are very common here in California because we have both good citrus weather and many immigrants from the Philippines.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:59 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Bananas Brindando Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

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They are very common here in California because we have both good citrus weather and many immigrants from the Philippines.
It's just like me. I have many citrus fruits from Brazil here in Japan although the climate is too cold for citrus fruits. We Brazilians love the Tahiti Lime, which we call it lemon. In Brazil I've never seen the calamansi little lemon. I do enjoy eating papaya with calamansi juice and watch the sunset at Manila Bay. Someday I'll be back there again. Thanks.
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:34 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

That's not true Mauro, Satsuma mandarins and Yuzu citrus are grown in Japan.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:54 PM   #113 (permalink)
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That's not true Mauro, Satsuma mandarins and Yuzu citrus are grown in Japan.
Yes, but not Honshu main island. Citrus are grown in Shikoku, another island where it is 5 degrees celcius higher than here in the winter.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:06 AM   #114 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

Even still those varieties are very cold tolerant, you ought to try.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:16 AM   #115 (permalink)
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Bananas Brindando Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

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Even still those varieties are very cold tolerant, you ought to try.
Thank you for your advise jeffreyp, I already have most kinds of citrus in my orchard, including the Satsuma which we call it here Onshu Mikan. I have the ponkan, the dekopon also which are very good. What I meant is that although we grow so many citrus fruits around here, the climate is not proper. The winter hurt them pretty bad. This year I sent 2 boxes full of Satsuma Mikan to my family in Okinawa. The navel orange doen't grow well here, also the Eureka lemon, that kind they grow in Cicily Island, Italy. All the navel oranges and lemons we buy at the market are imported from California, US.
You are right about that they are very cold tolerant. Last week, I went to Gifu Prefecture where the altitude is very high and it snows a lot and I saw many Satsuma Mikan planted in the mountains. In the southern region of Mie where I live they grow the dekopon in greenhouses for export. I learned that Japan exports a lot of Satsuma Mikan to Canada and I was quite surprised.
Although the climate is a little bit too cold for lemons, i succeeded in growing Lisbon lemons, Mexican limes, Tahiti limes, Okinawan hiramin lemon and even calamansi, not to mention Brazilian wild lemons, which they use for rootstock in Brazil.
Here is a new video about my bananas.
Bananas is the only fruit I wasn't able to harvest yet. But I shall!

Please forgive my bad English. My false teeth makes a funny sound.
So long for now.
hope to hear from you again.
bye.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:39 AM   #116 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

Very interesting, Mauro.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:06 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Bananas Brindando Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

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Very interesting, Mauro.
Hi Jack Daw, you live in a cold country too. I'm a loco man, that means crazy in Spanish. When I started growing bananas in my room it became a banana jungle and my wife almost asked me for a divorce. I have 2 edible varieties which didn't die in the past 5 years. The Lady Finger from Okinawa, Ryukyu Island, which I believe is a sister of the musa liukiuensis, Ito Bashoh, and the Raja Puri from India. The banana pups my brother brought me from Brazil all died during the first winter. Send me your address and I will send you the banana pups next spring. Make sure you plant them in a place where they get enough sunshine all winter. The banana plants like a lot of water in the summer but during the winter they hate moisture. Don't give them any water if possible. Another thing, maybe you should not graft them like me or people may send you to the same mental institution where my wife wants to send me.
Best Regards,
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:13 AM   #118 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

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Hi Jack Daw, you live in a cold country too. I'm a loco man, that means crazy in Spanish. When I started growing bananas in my room it became a banana jungle and my wife almost asked me for a divorce. I have 2 edible varieties which didn't die in the past 5 years. The Lady Finger from Okinawa, Ryukyu Island, which I believe is a sister of the musa liukiuensis, Ito Bashoh, and the Raja Puri from India. The banana pups my brother brought me from Brazil all died during the first winter. Send me your address and I will send you the banana pups next spring. Make sure you plant them in a place where they get enough sunshine all winter. The banana plants like a lot of water in the summer but during the winter they hate moisture. Don't give them any water if possible. Another thing, maybe you should not graft them like me or people may send you to the same mental institution where my wife wants to send me.
Best Regards,
Mauro Gibo
Heh, thanks Mauro, but I too have several varieties including Musa 'Raja Puri' and Lady Finger is unlikely to survive here. I'm interested in your grafting techniques, seeing that the plant lives, it just gives me hope that it might survive. Will you write a complete guide on how to graft bananas, once you succeed? That would definitely be worth a shot here.
How long did it take before the graft was accepted by basjoo P-stem remnants?
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:12 AM   #119 (permalink)
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Heh, thanks Mauro, but I too have several varieties including Musa 'Raja Puri' and Lady Finger is unlikely to survive here. I'm interested in your grafting techniques, seeing that the plant lives, it just gives me hope that it might survive. Will you write a complete guide on how to graft bananas, once you succeed? That would definitely be worth a shot here.
How long did it take before the graft was accepted by basjoo P-stem remnants?
Of course, I will post all the procedures of how to do it. But first, I have to make a video of me harvesting my ripe bananas and eating them with great delight. I am quite positive this year, because the coldest days are already gone. After February 15, the Japanese apricot tree starts blooming. That means that the weather will get warmer everyday. First I choose the 2 pups of about the same size and split the corms with a disinfected knife, tie them together and control the growth of the rootstock without killing it. I am not a botanist so I have no scientific knowlege of the behavior of the plant. But I believe that the cells of the bananas can recognize a friend from a foe. I let them exchange cells for 2 or three months then I stop the growth of the rootstock completely by cutting it down every time it grows and let the scion grow freely. Later on I will give you more specified information. I rely a lot on intuition. If you try, please have in mind that the environment is also very important for the growth and fusion of the banana pups.
Bye for now.
Hope to hear from you again.
Please wish me luck, I need it very much.
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:41 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mauro Gibo View Post
Of course, I will post all the procedures of how to do it. But first, I have to make a video of me harvesting my ripe bananas and eating them with great delight. I am quite positive this year, because the coldest days are already gone. After February 15, the Japanese apricot tree starts blooming. That means that the weather will get warmer everyday. First I choose the 2 pups of about the same size and split the corms with a disinfected knife, tie them together and control the growth of the rootstock without killing it. I am not a botanist so I have no scientific knowlege of the behavior of the plant. But I believe that the cells of the bananas can recognize a friend from a foe. I let them exchange cells for 2 or three months then I stop the growth of the rootstock completely by cutting it down every time it grows and let the scion grow freely. Later on I will give you more specified information. I rely a lot on intuition. If you try, please have in mind that the environment is also very important for the growth and fusion of the banana pups.
Bye for now.
Hope to hear from you again.
Please wish me luck, I need it very much.
Good luck, pal, I hope you'll be succesful!
__________________
Thnx to Marcel, Ante, Dr. Chiranjit Parmar and Francesco for the plants I've received.



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