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Main Banana Discussion This is where we discuss our banana collections; tips on growing bananas, tips on harvesting bananas, sharing our banana photos and stories.


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Old 09-01-2008, 09:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
Okinawan Bananeiro
 
Mauro Gibo's Avatar
 
Location: Kameyama, Mie, Japan
Zone: cold
Name: Mauro
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Talking Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

I was born in Brazil, which is a tropical country and our people grew bananas all year round, then when I was 15 years old I moved to Okinawa, Japan. The Okinawans also have bananas all year round because it is a subtropical island. After living 25 years in Okinawa I moved to Kameyama City. Mie Prefecture, Japan's Main Island called Hoshu. For these past 20 years I have been growing all sorts of fruit plants including bananas. A lot of them died because of the cold winter. But I found a type of banana which is very cold resistant although the fruit is not edible. This year I have grafted Raja Puri and Shima Banana in the cold resistant type. I am trying to cross-breed the bananas so I may get a cold resistant edible variety. I don't know yet the results that I may get. But I am sure putting a lot of effort. I'll let nature decide that for me. I love plants and I'm pretty good in growing them. My neighbors call me green fingers, because I always get a good harvest of what I plant. I also grow a lot of citrus fruits too, not mentioning vegetables because I learned a lot of farming from the Japanese people. The Japanese have been doing farming for thousands of years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzwinder View Post
Welcome to the Org. Mauro,
Thank you for accepting me as a member of your community. I will do my best do share my knowledge with you guys and also expect myself to learn a lot from your experiences in farming or plant growing. I think it is a great thing to share ideas and experiences will other people around the world, since we all live in the same planet. The leaders of our nations are already discussing the problem of environmental distruction, but I think it is not enough. Everyone of us civilians should contribute at least a little bit to improve our environmental conditons, planting trees, because they are the lungs of the earth producing clean air or oxigen. Once again, thank you for your warm welcome. Bye, Mauro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harveyc View Post
Welcome to the forum, Mauro!

Do you really mean you grafted a banana. I do a lot of grafting of different trees and have heard of melons being grafted, but can't imagine it being done with bananas. Do you have any photos to show you you did this?

Thanks,

Harvey
I didn't take any pictures when I was grafting, but today is raining so I think the weather is proper for grafting. I will graft another banana tree again, take pictures and post them in my Thread. This is what I do:
I take 2 shoots of young bananas, split them in half, especially the roots which are the real trunk of the banana tree, join the 2 pieces, tie them together real strong, like husband and wife, plant them in the ground and wait for the baby, half breed to be born. If you check in the internet you will learn that primitive people have been doing this sort of grafting or marriage for thousands of years. The edible bananas we eat were produced by primitive people in a primitive way. The original banana tree in the stone age was not edible. All the edible bananas we eat at the present time were created by us humans. I call it grafting, but it should be called forced marriage. Unifying blood with blood, or genes with genes, creating a new species. I just marry them, nature will do the rest. I hope you will agree with me. Thanks.
Mauro.

Well, guys, I'm back to the community again. I went yo my orchard, dug out 2 bananas shoots. One from the Musa Basjoo, the other from the Raja Puri and did what I've been calling "Banana Grafting". Which may not be a grafting but a cross-breeding of 2 varieties of bananas. Instead of calling it grafting, maybe I should call it "tempering with genetics of the banana plants". I called a friend who has a banana plantation in Brazil and he said they do a lot of grafting in the banana trees. Maybe, the expression Grafting is wrong. Should I call it Cross-breeding? or is there a better term to express what I have been doing? One thing I know, the new shoots that grew out of the ground have different characteristics of the ones I planted. I grafted for the third time and this time I took a lot of pictures and made a video. I posted it today, on my blogs. Please, if you have time view my video. at:
mauro-gibo on Dailymotion
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself
Thank you. I also really appreciate all of your comments.
For me, planting bananas and working with them in this cold country is a big challenge.

I got the information that in Brazil, farmers who grow bananas for commercial purpose, do not plant different kinds of bananas near their banana plantation afraid of clone variation. How about that ?
For me, it means that there are constant natural clone variation occurrence in the banana plant. So, if I graft them together, there should be some kind of influence or change in their genes. Well, I think we should study more about the characteristics of the banana plant. What do you think?
It's a point to ponder. Isn't it ?

Well, guys, I'm here again trying to prove my theory about grafting bananas.
I grafted the bananas and now I have to sit and wait until next spring for the results to come. I will not keep them in a green house. I don't have one, and I don't intend to build one. I'm against climate warming. Some of you guys disaprove my stone age techniques, but as I am a westerner who feed on a stincky sea weed here in Asia and enjoy eating raw fish, sashimi, I think I'll stick to my unchangable convictions. I'll have the patience of a pregnant woman waiting 9 months for her baby to be born. I'be wating for my half-breed banana seedlings to sprout from the ground with different characteristics from their bulb parents. I hope. Here, let me tell you an incridible story but true, because I saw it with my own bare eyes. When I was young and lived in Brazil, my parents where farmers. In our farm there was a male papaya plant. Of course, only the female papaya plant produces fruits, the male plant doesn't. My father said in Portuguese, our native language that he was going to "capar o pe de mamao macho", that means in English: He was going to castrate the male papaya plant and make it produce fruits. I had seen him castrate pigs, but papaya plants, that's really crazy or a stupid thing to do. That's impossible ! Well, he did it. How? Well, he got a wedge, a piece of wood, and inserted it into the trunk of the papaya tree about 10 centimeters above grownd level with a big hammer. Few months later, we picked papaya fruits from the male tree. Believe it or not, I ate papaya from that tree. I guess, the papaya tree didn't want to die without leaving successors to his lineage. So, he started producing his own descendents. Can you believe this abnormal phenomenon ? You may not, but I do ! Because I saw it. Thanks for taking your time to read my crazy story incredible but true, Bye guys. I'll be back with my crazy ideas again until someone expells me from the community. Bye.

Hi. guys. Heeeere is Mauro again. First of all I would like to thank everyone who took his precious time to view my long 10 minute video "Grafting bananas" in the You Tube. I envy all of you guys who are able to go to the plant store and my so many kinds of specimens of bananas. Here in main land Japan, there is none. They have all sorts of beatiful flowers for sale, but no plants related to the musas. I did some study about banana consumption in Japan and here is my report:
Japan imports 1.000.000 tons of bananas from abroad every year.
88.5% from Mindanao Island, Philippines.
8.5% from Ecuador, South America.
1.4% from Taiwan.
Production of bananas in Japan, Okinawa, very very small quantity, The Shima banana. Because we have from 20 to 30 typhoons a year. No can do !
They harvest a very small quantity, maybe not enough even to offer to the shrines of their ancestors as is the custom of the island people of Okinawa.
To get the Raja Puri I had my brother to smuggle it for me from the US.
The Quarantine of the Airports will not allow us to import plants from the outside world. Not even the Shima banana.We can't bring the plants to main land, because of some plant deseases we have in Okinawa. Bye, for now. This forum is really fun. I enjoy reading the Threads posted.

About my mystical philosophy of grafting banana shoots, pups, etc. I say naked because I have nothing to hide. Maybe nothing good to offer, either, but one thing I know, I got a lot o people curious about the subject of grafting bananas which makes one wonder about the secrets and power of nature. I also grow azaleas and I've read in a book that you should not plant a azalea in the same spot where there was a azalea plant before. Why? Because it doesn't want any rival of the same species to take its place. So it leaves something in the soil that will not let the new azalea grow well. It's a kind of poison to destroy its rival. It's private property so stay away from my place, it's a warning to other azaleas.
Well, let's talk about banana plants, which is my main topic. After doing my experiment trying what probably nobody else tried before, to make an arranged forced marriage between too different types of banana shoots, by cutting the shoots and tying them together like husband and wife. One thing I can certainly guarantee is that there will be no divorce. If they are planning to have offsprings or not I, at the present time, I still don't know, because I have left them to survive by their natural instincts and the ways of nature.
To escape from this trap set is impossible. Maybe, they will poison each other like the azaleas or they will learn to behave properly and be as one integrated whole. That will be left for them to behave according to their natural instincts. After doing this experiment, I started checking in the internet all the informations about the banana plant. As I can read Portuguese, Spanish, Japanese and English I got montains of information around me that I can't see Mount Fuji anymore. I'm lost and I lost my direction. I took my first step towards my thousand mile journey and sometimes, I have the feelings I should turn back and hide in my cave. But who really understands the nature and rhythm of the universe? We humans have to reject our instincts and live according to man-made laws, customs, and traditions which are contrary to the ways of nature. The plants don't have to follow any rule at all. Anyway, I found out that at La Lima, Honduras, United Brands maintains a collection of 470 cultivars and 100 species of bananas. So, there is no need for me, the back-yard scientist to try to create a new species of bananas. Also, the Imperial College of Tropical Agriculture in Trinidad, in 1928, created the Golden Beauty, which is resistent to The Panama and Sigatoka deseases. Brazil, also, after loosing the Apple Banana, affected by the mentioned diseases, produced a new variety called The Princess, which is very resistant and has a similar flavor. Well, after knowing about so many sophisticated laboratories around the world with the highest technoloy on bio culture, I fell like a little ant stealing sugar from a donnut on the table.
One more thing I would like to confess, whatever the result I get by my naive primitive experiment, will not change or take away the joy I have to dig the soil in my back yard and have direct contact with nature itself. Like the song "El Condor Pasa", I'd rather be a forest than a street, yes, I would, I'f I only could I surely, would!" .
Thank you, for taking your precious time. And I'd like to say to all the members of this forum, that I love to read their comments. No hard feelings at all. There is so much wisdom and good intentions in the words of everyone. Thanks a lot. And please forgive my miss spellings. My English is rusty, as I live in Japan which the spoken language is Japanese. Sayonara.

Dear friends of the Banana Forum:
I hope you're not tired of reading my nonsense threads about banana grafting.
I would like you to know that I called my Brazilian friend, the banana grower again. And according to his instructions I cut off one of the suckers and let only one shoot grow. Should we give credit to a banana shaman? Who could be a foolish or wise old tribesman. Anyway, I've got to get to the bottom of this.
I followed his instructions and made a video called Grafting Bananas Stage II.
http://jp.youtube.com/my_videos
mauro-gibo on Dailymotion
If you are interested, please view my new video, Grafting Bananas Stage II.
I'm only doing what I'm told to do.
I'd like to mention that we've recycled the wrong information for about 2 thousand years concerning who built the pyramids. A greek went to Egypt about 2 thousand years ago and got the information that the pyramids were built by slaves. Now, the archeologists are saying that they were public constructions and that the laborers got full payment for their days work. They found the tombs of the constructors and have the records of their wages paid. Also that so and so didn't come to work because he had to go to a wedding. Another guy didn't come to work because he had a hangover.
That's why I think we should check this grafting technique? Is it true or false?
I'm willing to follow it up to the end! Thanks. Sorry for the incovenience, bothering you guys all the time. I know there are many plant experts in the forum. Lots of different points of view. I'm very happy about it. Bye and thank you gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chironex View Post
Mauro, I watched your videos and must say it is fascinating to me. I really want to see your method do the unexpected and create a half-breed pup. Would we then call it a mutt? Just kidding, but this would be something I will try if it works for you.
Scot this is Mauro replying about the flower "Tree Dahlia".
I haven't been growing any Dahlias, lately. I think the flower you saw in my video is the Hibiscus syriacus. It's Korea's National flower. The ordinary hibiscus we grow in Okinawa, a sub-tropical island, can't resit the cold around here. But the hibiscus Syriacus can. It's very, very cold resistant. It has many collors and types of flowers. You can see this beautiful flower everywhere in Japan. Japan, before W.W.II occupied the Korean Peninsula for about 30 years. At the time then, they brought many Koreans to work in the coal mines in Japan, forced labor, of course. The Koreans brought this flower and planted them in their houses to remind them of their beloved home. It is a very sentimental flower to the large number of Koreans who continue living in Japan. Remember Korea is a snow country. I, myself, didn't know that this flower was a member of the hibiscus family. Thank for your support in my long experiment journey. You know that I'm not the beloved Reverend anymore. I killed the wealthy husband tree. Let's wait to see what happens next. Or if I get a new information from the Brazilian bananeiro, I will let everybody know. By the way, I sent the grafting question to a Brazilian Plant Research Center, government controlled, they said they would answer me within 8 days. It has been more than 2 weeks, now, and I never got any answer. I think I got all the Brazilian botanical experts very confused. In Brazil you never know what's real or what's unreal. It could even be a voodoo ritual practice. Well, what have I to lose in waiting with endurable patience?
Thanks, bye for the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by damaclese View Post
that makes more sense to me now thanks for the clarification and i agree 100% with you on that but the kid in me whats to believe it!!!!!! ( common Windy Never Land is just to the north of that star!)LOL
Hi, damaclese !
Why do people go to Las Vegas? To try their luck, right ? Even knowing that you can't beat a machine, you will still try. And as a result come home dead broke. Well, I've decided to try my luck with this very, very slim chance. Maybe one in a million. To graft a banana pup. I'm really embarassed that I saw a little smoke and thought that it was a big fire. But, still, something inside of me tells me not to get disheartened. Is my experiment a folk tale? I've asked myself a thousand times. To tell you the truth I don't know. But I'll sure find out, by next spring. God willing. I'm sorry to be such a big mouth, I should have done my experiment in silence...
Here is some words that keep me on my track:
"Those who speak know nothing;
Those who know are silent."
These words, I'm told,
Were spoken by Lao-tzu.
If we are to believe that Lao-tzu
Was himself one who knew,
How is it that he wrote a book
Of five thousand words?
This is just an excuse for my big mouth. Thank you for supporting my theory, although there is so slim a chance. Bye, for now let me hide in my cave until I get more concrete proof of my experiment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylie2x View Post
Hey Welcome!!! I look forward to seeing you around!!!
Kylie
Hi, Kylie!
I'm scared to appear again in the forum and people really find out that I'm crazy. Up to now, they only have the impression. They guess, but they are not sure, yet. I have the assurance that I am nuts. After all the noise I've made about grafting bananas, without any concrete proof to back me up, I decided to hide in my cave until I get good results of my experiment. I could be deadly wrong about this banana grafting, but I trust my green fingers. The Japanese have been grafting Bonsai for 3000 years. The grafting practice was not invented yesterday. I would like to tell you something about my weird thinking. America was discovered in 1492. Brazil was discovered in April 22, 1500 by a Portuguese called Pedro Alvares Cabral. We have a culture of 500 years. Since then, we've had papayas growing in our villages and towns all around the country. But we never found out the green papayas can be eaten as a vegetable. I came to Japan in 1966. For the first time in my life, in Okinawa, I ate green papaya as a vegetable cooked with pork luncheon meat. We've had papaya in our back yards in Brazil all our lives and we didn't know we could eat it as a vegetable. When we didn't have any vegetables to eat, my mother would collect the tip of the vines of the pumpkin plant and cook them with chili beans, as a vegetable. Another thing, all Brazilians eat the chayote. I don't know any Brazilian who doesn't like to eat the chayote as a vegetable. But in Okinawa although we grow it everywhere, nobody eats them. They give them to the pigs. They don't know it is a delicious vegetable. If I am skillful enough with my green fingers, and get the right partners, I'm sure I am going to make this miracle happen. They are many amazing things we can do around us, but we don't notice them. Please, wish me luck, I'll be hiding in my cave for a while, bye for now, and thanks. for welcoming this awesome hermit to the forum again. Bye!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chironex View Post
I have only begun studying the teachings of Lao-tzu and Taoism in general. It is soothing and helps me find tranquility in this crazy world.

Here is something that explains the Yin and Yang of Taoist thought as it applies to your banana grafting experiment:
  • If you can find true contentment, it will last forever.
  • Embrace simplicity. Put others first. Desire little.
  • No disaster is worse than being discontented.
Hi, Scot! I'm back to the world. Couldn't hide in the cave too long. I missed all of you guys of the forum. Big mouth can't stay quiet, very long. About my experiment: The sucker that grew from the ground after I grafted the 2 individual shoots, has different characteristics. And is growing normally. The temperature here in Japan, at the present time is proper for the grouth of the musas. I found something very interesting about chimeras in the net and I'd like everyone interested to read it. Here it is: chimeras - Google ŒŸõ
The article is related to us humans, but it could happen in the plant world. exchange of cells in between 2 different individuals. Some cells could try to repair the damaged tissue, which I cut and made the surgery. I thought it was very interesting when I read about microchimerism. The impossible may happen more often than we think. As you've noticed, I like to read a lot about Confucianism, Taoism and neo confucionism. The Japanese culture is a blend of the 3 plus Buddhism. No wonder, I got brain washed here in Japan and forgot about my own culture. I'd like to thank you and all the other members for their encouraging comments on my experiment, although the chance of getting a banana chimera is very slim. Bye for now, I'll be back again soon. Bye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chong View Post
I found Harvey's comments challenging, so I did a search on how the banana came to the Western Hemisphere and found the following article from the International Banana Association:
International Banana Association

It appears that I was not entirely accurate. The first banana's route to the Americas from SE Asia was through Africa, Europe, the Caribbean, thence South America. So, it was not from the Philippines to America. My contention that the yellow banana was already in existence, though, is still correct. The banana was brought to the Caribbean in 1516. Years before that, the Portuguese brought the banana to the Canary Islands where they were cultivated.

It would be extremely unlikely that a natural hybridizing process could occur in a short span of 20 years. Unless, one of the Jamaican farmer's workers performed a "grafting process" similar to Mauro's. And so, why not? If hybridizing can be done on a cellular level, the "splicing" of two different corm halves is just the same procedure. Only it is done with several thousand times bigger materials.
Hi, everyone!
This is Mauro back to the forum. I'm silent now, as silent as a tomb. Sorry for my miss spellings, my eyes fail me. I guess it's my age and my diabetes. Insulin everyday. Got to face it, I had too much to drink when I was younger. I guess my days are counted. I read all of your discussions about the history of the bananas coming to the Americas and its propagation. It's amazing you guys do a lot of reading and writing too. I made another experiment with mature specimens. If your interested, please view my new video;
Dailymotion - Grafting mature banana plants_0001, a video from mauro-gibo. Banana, breeding, grafting, bananas, Bananas
Sorry, I'm a primitive man who enjoy primitive techniques.
By for now. I'll be back again, sometime in the near future with reports about my experiment. By the way, the Brazilian Research Center still didn't answer my question about grafting yet. I intend to keep bugging them until I get an answer. Bye, everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chironex View Post
Good to see you back again Mauro! I enjoyed seeing your new video. Will you be cutting-off one of the parent plants soon, as you did on the previous banana graft?
I would like to see some photos of the pups from the first graft.
Hi, Scot! Greetings. First of all, thank you, for your reply. Arigatou gozaimasu. Here is a little bit about my theory:
First a story. Once upon a time an alpinist was climbing a very high mountain. Unfortunately, he could not reach the base camp before dark, the cliff was too steep. To make matters worst, one of the pins holding the rope broke loose and he fell into the abyss. Luckly, the second lockpin was strong enough to hold his weight and he stayed there hanging in the cliff holding on to the rope in the darkness and the freezing cold. After a while he looked up to the dark sky and prayed: God! Please, save me from death. God answered his prayer and said: "Cut the rope"!
................................................................ ........................................
Next day, his companions found him dead, hanging on the rope 2 feet above the ground. He was frozen. What happened to his faith in God?
I think that faith is very important and I have a lot of faith in my experiment.
Another thing about my experiment, I think it needs a lot of skill, do the right thing at the right time, like they do with the Bonsai. Bully the specimen at the right time, not kill it. When I bully with one plant, that plant will rely on his partner for survival support. Anyone in trouble will ask for a helping hand. I believe all living things do, even plants. When I cut or bully one specimen, that specimen will send a S.O.S. cell to the other plant. The natural instinct of the plant is to guarantee the next generation by leaving offsprings. I think that the bullied plant will send gametes to the other plant for survival. The most difficult thing is not grafting, it's how you discipline them. I'll bully with the two specimen, but always at the right time, until I get a new hybrid. In Brazil when the mango tree doesn't produce fruits, they make a lot of cuts in the trunk, bully the tree to make it bear fruits. I heard they do that with the avocado tree, too. I'll keep you informed. Bye, for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chong View Post
Part of going to school in the Philippines is learning Philippine History (and also, US History, believe it or not it was mandatory). Magellan's journey to circumnavigate the world ended for him in the Philippines after he tried to overcome a "macho" chieftain from Mactan Island, where he was killed. That was April 1521. His surviving 18 crew members completed the journey (they started with crew of 270). He was the first European to set foot on Philippine soil. The Galleon Trade was from 1565 to 1815, with the last sailing from Manila in 1811, and the return trip from Acapulco was four years later in 1815.

I could be wrong, but I do not believe that New World fruits were available in the Philippines before 1521, and vice-versa, since there was no way for the plants to get from one place to the other, otherwise.
I think the name of the macho chieftain was Lapulapu. I never forgot his name because it is also the name of a very delicious fish in the Filipino cuisine. When I was young I went to aviation school in the Philippines. I also graduated from San Sebastian College in Santa Mesa, Manila. Bye. I love history and also know about Jose Rizal and that El Cano, a spaniard took the honors of Fernao de Magalhaes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chong View Post
You must know that having lived in the Philippines, once you are at home with the people there, they consider you a Filipino. All you have to say when you get back there is exactly what you just said. "I graduated from 'Basté' (San Sebastian)" and they'll know that you are an expatriate that went to school in San Sebastian College, near the San Beda University.

May I have the honor to say, "Mabuhay!" to you and your endeavors. I am anxious and excited to see the results of your experiments.

Lapu-lapu was a chieftain who was a renegade and did not always agree with the chiefs of the neighboring islands, although his island of Mactan was many times smaller than his neighbors. After converting to Catholicism, the other chieftains convinced Magellan to invade Mactan Island and capture Lapu-lapu.

With superior arms, Magellan thought that bolos (long knives) and sharpened bamboo spears would be no match for cannons and muskets. He was right, of course. But he made the mistake of not reconnoitering the area and brazenly attacked before sunrise, which unfortunately was at low tide. The ships ran aground at a distance which rendered their cannons out of range of shores of the island.

They decided to attack on dinghies, whereupon they were pummeled by arrows and bamboo spears. And the sheer numbers of the natives were so overwhelming, that before Magellan and the ship's captain could reach the shores on foot, they had been hit in their legs with arrows.

Instead of retreating, they pressed on and was met by Lapu-lapu brandishing a Kampilan, a long single edged broadsword, and defeated the aggressors. (It was a lot more gory than that, but in deference to the site audience, I thought it best not to elaborate.) Thus ending the conflict, and the surviving crew was able to return to Spain.

There are two kinds of fish called Lapu-lapu, named after this chieftain. One is the delicious rock fish related to the Red Snapper, and is a special treat in restaurants, or in festivities at home. Usually prepared as "Escaveche", deep fried whole fish and served with a not so sweet and not so sour sauce with thinly sliced green papaya slivers, carrots, ginger and garlic.

The other fish is a deep sea fish that can grow upwards of over 300 pounds, the Sea Bass, which is a relative of the famous Chilean Sea Bass. This is the fish that was named after the chieftain, allegedly, after he dove into the water and single handedly fought, captured and killed this large fish with his bare hands. (Well, maybe he had a knife.)

I don'tknow if this big fish is good for sashimi, but I know that pan fried steaks of this fish, with mildly spicy ginger sauce, is awesome!
Hi, Chong, thank you for your warm welcome, Salamat po. I am a Brazilian with a Pilipino corazon who lives in Japan. I fell in love with Pilipinas about 35 years ago when I went to visit my relatives in Calinan, Mindanao Island. My uncle had a hacienda in Mindanao and he married a Pilipina woman from the Bagobo tribe, by the Suwawan river. I have many cousins living in Mindanao even today. They live in Davao City. I often visit the Pilipinas and watch the sunset at Manila Bay, very, very beatiful! My favorite breakfast in the Philippines is red papaya with calamansi juice. Pilipino ethnic food is the best, not to mention the San Miguel beer. No wonder I got diabetes, I ate too much lechons in Manila. About the lapu-lapu fish, they are all good for sashimi. We have lapu-lapu in Okinawa too, but it is too expensive. I lived in Manila for many years and I have many friends there. I also lived in Xiamen, Fujian Province, China. I imported marble stones from Fujian to Japan. I've been everywhere in South East Asia, and I adore mangosteen too. Bye, for now, I'll be back. Gracias y hasta luego.

Hi, to all the members of the forum ! This is the loco-loco carabao from Mindanao!
The most weirdo of the human species, Mauro Gibo, the Brazilian dude. Trying to prove the impossible. All I have left is guts! Hope, very, very, slim. The Brazilian Tropical Fruits Research Center, in Cruz das Palmas City, Bahia State, has answered my question about grafting banana plants. Here it is:

"Prezado Senhor Mauro
Desculpe-me pelo atraso em respondê-lo. Estive viajando para uma região
onde não tinha acesso à internet. Com relação a sua pergunta, gosaria de
informar que em bananeira não é possível fazer enxertos. Por outro lado,
algumas bananas disponíveis no mercado, uim pouco diferentes das
tradicionais, não são resultados de enxertos e sim, são híbridas e
apresentam resistência à doença. Ou seja, essas bananas resultaram do
cruzamento de banana comercial com outra que tinha resistência a
determinada doença."
Sorry it is in Portuguese. But here is the translation: Banana plants are impossible to graft. The different kinds of bananas we find in the market are the results of hybridization. They are very resistant to many deseases of the banana plants.
Please wish me all the luck you can! Because, I feel like galileo who died saying the world was round. I the Brazilian "Samurai", will die saying that it is possible to graft bananas, even if all the odds are against me. Bye, and thank you for your patience in reading my nonsense. Bye, next spring I'll have a new cultivar in my back yard through grafting. By the way, Carabao means water bufallo.

Dear friends and fellow plant growers of the Banana Org. Forum. After weeks and months of meditation in my cave, here, in the Far East I have decided to come back to the forum and expose my mystical experiments, theories and my Taoist phisophy. My theme is yet the same: Grafting Banana Specimens.
First of all, Greetings to everyone !
"Man follows the ways of the Earth,
The Earth follows the ways of Heaven,
Heaven follows the ways of Tao,
Tao follows its own ways."
That means that I will always follow my own way of grafting banana specimens no matter the hardships or contradictory point of views of my fellow botanists through out the world. I would like to repeat the words of the 3 Japanese Nobel Prize winners Mr. Nambu Youichi, Mr. Kobayashi Makoto and Mr. Masukawa Toshihide: "The most important thing to achieve your goal and success is the spirit of never quitting, no matter how difficult your experiment may be!" I intend to follow their teachings and never quit my grafting experiment until I get a new banana cultivar through grafting which still is considered impossible by many botanists and experts in biotechnology. Especially those who dedicate themselves to the tissue culture of the banana plant. Up to now, through my way of grafting banana shoots of different variety I have succeeded only in getting variegated species. I have not yet achieved my goal of getting a new banana cultivar of unchangeable identity. In the former threads I have said that I would not stop bugging the Brazilian Government Controlled Research Centers about my question. Is there really a method of grafting banana plants by the native Brazilians which we yet do not know of? Do the Brazilian farmers have an ancient stone age, simple method of grafting bananas, or not? Here is the second reply of my questions:
" Não existe nada a respeito de enxerto nos manuais técnicos sobre
bananeira. A prática que está referindo, não é enxerto e sim desbaste. A
retirada de brotos evitando a formação de touceira é muito importante,
pois evita competição entre plantas e aumenta o tamanho do cacho da
planta que fica. Existem outras explicações para obtenção de cachos
grandes no Vale da Ribeira. A primeira é que lá se cultiva banana
Nanicão ou Grande Naine que produzem cachos grandes. A segunda é que, em
algumas propriedades faz-se uma boa adubação e menejo da cultura, o que
ajuda a produzir bons cachos." Sorry again, it is in Portuguese not English, but here is a simple translation of the original:
In the Technical Manuals of Propagation Bananas, there is no information about this practice. The practice you have inquired about is called rough-hew. We leave few suckers to avoid grouth competition among them, which is very important, so the banana plants can produce larger bunches of bananas. There are other methods to obtain larger bunches of bananas in the Ribeira Valley, Southern region of Brazil. One of them is that they grow the Nanicao or the Grand Naine cultivar. The other pratice is that they fertilize the soil properly and apply the adequate management for the banana plantation to obtain good and bigger bunches.
I am not yet satisfied with the answers I've got, but I think it is time to stop bugging the Rearch Centers of Brazil. I do not want to annoy them anymore. That, only, I shall quit! But I will still continue my naive experiments for my own satisfaction.
I have decided to return to the forum today and open my big mouth, because I am very happy. I am not afraid of the coming cold winter and my banana specimens aren't either. I checked my plants and saw new suckers coming out of the ground. They are healthy and beautiful. That means that I don't have to wait for the spring to come like a pregnant woman anymore. My beautiful pups were already born, what shall I call them Chironex? Pups, Mutts or Mongrels? Half-breed banana pups?...
I'd like to speak a little about my philosophy: My Tao Te Ching, "The Way of Life":
"Everyone says that my way of life is the way of a simpleton.
Being largely the way of a simpleton is what makes it worth while....
These possessions of a simpleton being the three I choose
And cherish:
To care,
To be fair,
To be humble.
When a man cares he is unafraid,
When he is fair he leaves enough for others,
When he is humble he can grow.
...See how fine the palaces
And see how poor the farms,
How bare the pesants granaries
While gentry wear embroideries
Hiding sharpened arms.
And the more they have the more they seize,
How can there be such men as these
Who never hunger, never thirst,
Yet eat and drink until they burst!
By Lao-tzu, harmony with nature, posted by Mauro Gibo.
I'm sorry, but I have to leave now. My banana babies wait for me. Thank you for taking your precious time to read my thread. Here is an ancient saying from the fareast to my friends of the forum:
Above all, I hope I don't buy the hate of the American ladies, especially the ladies of the forum.
Best things in life: Live in an American house, eat Chinese food and have a Japanese lady as a wife.
Worst things in life: Live in a Japanese house, eat British food and have an American wife.
Please forgive this simpleton with a big big mouth.
Bye for now. Once again, forgive me.

Last edited by chong : 10-26-2008 at 01:07 AM. Reason: All posts refer to banana experiments by Mauro
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Talking Grafting Bananas by the Insistent Banana Grower - Mauro

Welcome to the forum, Mauro!

Do you really mean you grafted a banana. I do a lot of grafting of different trees and have heard of melons being grafted, but can't imagine it being done with bananas. Do you have any photos to show you you did this?

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Old 09-01-2008, 03:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Mauro Gibo, welcome to the community!
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Welcome to the Org. Mauro,
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

I have asked this question before, but now I am really intrigued. This is just the thing I have been searching to find, but there is nothing about grafting bananas on the internet that I could find.
Does this work with edible fruiting bananas, sterile triploids?
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

From what I understand, no gene transfer would take place by such grafting. Still, I'd very much like to see the photos. I'd like to see how long such a plant survives and how well it thrives, etc.

Thanks,

Harvey
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

That grafting sounds very interesting! On a side note, my grandpa was stationed over in Okinawa in the 50s. Anyways, welcome!
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Old 09-02-2008, 01:15 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

The only thing on the net regarding banana graft is the "banana graft procedure" on regular trees. There is nothing on grafting bananas plants, which I don't think is possible. As far as I know, most edible bananas have evolve through natural hybridization and not through human intervention. Even with the mango (mangifera indica) and lanzones (lansium domesticum) are what they are now because of natural hybridization in the wilds. Although fables in the Philippines says that there was Divine intervention (notably by the Virgin Mary) to convert what was once toxic into two of the most delicious fruits in the world.

Hybridization in Honduras of new varieties is attained on cellular level, rather than mature plants. It could also involve exposure of the cells to irradiation procedures in order to hasten the alteration of their physical characteristics. It has been suggested that research methods in Thailand have included irradiation in order to produce new variegated varieties of bananas and other plants.

Personally, I would be interested in learning a procedure for banana breeding utilizing mature plant specimens.
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Old 09-02-2008, 01:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

On the other hand, here is an article that supports Mauro's statement regarding humankind's intervention to produce the edible banana:
Yes, We'll Have No Bananas - Thanks to Selective Breeding, our Favourite Fruit can Neither Reproduce nor Defend Itself from Disease

I don't know, but this sounds to me like the "Global Warming" issue, except that it pertains to bananas. Just in case the author is right, we all better stock up on banana plants.
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

Mauro thanks for showing that to us vary interesting i have not heard of any one doing this but as i grew up in a farming family I'm not surprised some of my uncles have so pretty un orthodoxes ways of doing curtain farming techniques i always attributed some of thees to just old wifes tales can you explain in more depth what you believe happens between the to different tissues do you think there is a transfer of cells between corms or is it more a function of the two different corms sporting or influencing each other in a hormonal way! Wow iv never have considered this possible dose any one els have any incite on this topic dos this mean that you could graft vieas other bulbs together? I'm simply amazed!
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Mauro, I watched your videos and must say it is fascinating to me. I really want to see your method do the unexpected and create a half-breed pup. Would we then call it a mutt? Just kidding, but this would be something I will try if it works for you.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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welcome to the insanity.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

Hi Mauro!
I liked the videos and the music!!
I loved the pictures of you and the people of the amazon!
I wonder can this really really really work; just cut 2 pieces of banana plant, tie them together , put a bag around them, plant, and really get a different plant?
Well I might just have to try this 1 day myself!
THanks for the idea!
mg
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Hi Mauro,

does this works with every species??[if it works]
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Mauro,

Maybe you should learn to tissue culture bananas. Your brother could probably easily smuggle in the meristems of many cultivars at once and this would also be eliminate the concerns of importing diseases.

Harvey
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

This is an interesting thread. Let me squash the idea of grafting bananas to come up with new cultivars, however. If it could be done, it would have been done a long time ago, and there would be no need to cross-pollinate and there would be no FHIA program in Honduras. Theoretically, it is possible for a chimera to emerge from one of the corms, but that would be a rarity beyond all rarities. Some cells could even have influence over others. Gene transfer will not occur from the cells of one plant to the other. It is possible that cells would and could move between the graft, and that you could have some intermingling of cells back and forth, but you're not going to come up with a new cultivar out of it. Think about it; if this was possible and this easy, wouldn't there be at least one scientific paper on it? Moreover, if it was possible, I think that there would be hundreds of scientific papers on it, and that we would have thousands of cultivars made by hobbyists and breeders alike. This thread sort of makes me want to try it though, lol. It is an intriguing idea, if there was a chance of it actually working. I haven't even mentioned that monocots are near impossible to graft also, due to there being no (or very little) vascular cambium (and definitely none in bananas!).

Mauro, welcome to the forum.
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Old 09-05-2008, 11:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

I still want to believe something good can happen from this experiment. So, keep on going Mauro.
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:45 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planting Bananas

well if you all reread his post hes stated the fallowing "I called a friend who has a banana plantation in Brazil and he said they do a lot of grafting in the banana trees. " not that I'm making any statements of a definitive nature here but i think we should all keep an opine mind on this after all let me put this in a historical contexts. how many civilizations have come and gone on are planet that have had to one deg or another mathematical and engineering skills that in some ways have rivaled are own. thees have been lost and had to be rediscovered how do we know that this is a new technique from his statement its not! so in that contexts i think its certainly worth a try who knows this could lead to an unprecedented discovery if you consider that more then haft the world depends on Bananas as there primary starch nutrition and in light of the ever shrinking supply of viable land to grow food crops the ability to grow hardier Bananas in more northerly climates dose make good sens to me just my two cents! and i think to answer the statement about why there are no scientific papers on this subject. a researchers gos in to the jungle to do his thing if he doesn't know about a certain technique then why would he even know to ask about it and some things are considered so mundane buy people that they don't even think to talk about it i know theres lots of papers out there identifying and classifying plants but other then the FHIA thing who's really doing research on enchant forming practices of south America. theres a sort of inherent bise by the agro community in thinking that the modern practices are of the most predictive nature when thats provin time and time again that its not really so look at how we have harmed are land tiling and over using of chemicals when all along ancient peoples have used practices that have show there sustainability over thousands of generations
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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You're right. I'm sorry for trying to bring scientific facts into the discussion.

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Old 09-07-2008, 04:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Frank, I'm skeptical also, but it's worth taking a look at to see what happens. Many growers have carried out particular traditions for many generations even though there is little objective support for doing so. My grandfather, father, uncles, and brother would never start planting corn in the spring on a Friday. No scientific reason for doing so except that there were probably too many other things going to if they hadn't got started by then and were possibly more lilkely to be rushing and making mistakes. Obviously, a trial with at least a hundred plants of each treatment (plant A, plant B, and grafts of A on B and B on A) would be nice to see to really draw any conclusions.

In some old scientific literature from the 15th century or so there was a discussion that grafting of fruit trees was highly controversial, messing with mother nature, along the lines of how gene splicing is often viewed today. So science has been know to change its views. I'd love to be able to have my skepticism dismissed!

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