sirdoofus

So I am sooooo not objective when it comes to evaluating what is going on with these 2 Dwarf orinoco plants that I am beseeching all of you experienced folks to help be my objective interpreters with regard to what signals they are sending me.

Ignore the small plants in the background.

Both of these plants were overwintered in my garage. I think I might have over watered one of them to some degree. They are both growing, but of course slowly at this point, and with a few caveats.

I haven't deeply watered either plant for months, with the exception of a surface watering (small amount of water that wouldn't go much beyond the surface roots) on the healthier looking of the two.

Here are two pics of the top leaves of both plants. In the forground with one leaf is the smaller of the two. These leaves essentially have not changed in appearance since I brought them outside weeks ago



You'll notice the cigar leaf emerging from this one, which of course is as good sign. What you don't see is the dead tip portion I cut off it before taking the pic - about 2-3 inches or so.



The following pic is of the more vigorous of the two. But you can kind of see from the pics, some of the new leaves emerge and then start turning brown and drying fairly quickly.....and some of them don't. The big pup on the right seems to be having the most trouble. The little pups with the good sized leaves on the left have recently started turning brown at the tips, but it has taken awhile.



And here is a closeup of the pup having trouble. Ignore the leaf on the right edge of the pic and the leaves on the background, different plants.



The following is of the less vigorous plant. This one is definitely stumping me. The large diameter pup remnant on the left is growing, but it has seemed to stall out over the last 2 weeks or so. Its still green, but not moving much. The little pup closest to the camera is guttating like crazy. I don't know if you can see it by zooming, but there is a constant wet spot around its base because of this. It is the only part of the plant to do this. The smaller leaf on this pup is a bit off color, grayish-green, but otherwise looks OK. And the biggest of the leaves in the pic on the pup to the right, as you might be able to tell, seems to be browning up a bit and drying.



And a closer version of the above pic.



So I have been moving these plants into the greenhouse during the day and into the garage at night. My plan has kind of been continue with that routine until nighttime temps are high enough to put them into the ground and hope for the best.

However, like I said, I am having a very hard time being objective here, and given my inexperience with them, I am hoping all of you folks with more experience might help me interpret what is happening and determine the best course of action.

I am sure I have left out some pertinent information, apologies and thank you very much for taking the time to read through this.

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cincinnana

Your plants look just like my plants.

After many months(for me its seven) of abuse it takes a bit for your plants to restart.
They will bend, break ,unfurl, turn brown.

Minimize the ferts and water....your plant is not using it all yet.
Now is when the plant is most likely to perish from too much attention.

Once your temperature is regularly in the mid 70's your plants will sort themselves out.......but until then you're in in for the ride.

Me....I refresh the soil with a partial or full soilless mix change without disturbing too much root ball. Keep your mix lite.

Now is a good time to remove your new pups also.

My plants are sending me smoke signals...
. by Hostafarian, on Flickr

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edwmax

You didn't state what the night time temps were. Because you are moving them into the garage at night, I assume they are still dormat. Do as Cincy says.

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cincinnana

Dowaps temps are similar to mine.....

Dowaps sweet spot is in the consistent 80's...doobie do wap....
Most /all tropical banana plants will respond to warm temperatures.

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sirdoofus

Thank you so much you two. Very much appreciated. I will continue moving them in and out for now.

I will consider changing the potting medium in the next couple of weeks if I get the chance...If I am feeling ambitious

And just to clarify Cinc, you think it would be worth removing the pups at this point? If so, should I remove all of them, just the ones with leaves, one from each plant, etc.?

Last couple of nights have been down to 38F ish (3-4C), at least for a short while (6AM or therabouts when I get up), definitely a bit cooler than normal for this time of year, otherwise low - mid 40'sF (5-8C).

The garage stays around 60F (15C) overnight and the greenhouse gets pretty darn warm during the day.

Again, thank you very, very much for the advice, I really appreciate the assistance!!

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Yug

Without knowing anything about your temps or growing conditions, on first glance I would have said they look dry.

sirdoofus

Thank you Yug. They look dry to me too, however, the soil is moist a couple of inches down, and the weight of the pots are not consistent with my experience of dry. But, given my inexperience with over wintered potted bananas, especially larger ones, and the fact that bananas are essentially bags of water, I don't really know how much of the total weight is attributable to the plant itself and how much is moisture in the surrounding medium.

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edwmax

At first the dry brown edges of the leaves looks like over watering, but looking again I also see indications of over-heating or heat burns. .... Over watering & heat stress burns.



My recommendations:


1) Just leave the plants outside (not in the greenhouse) day & night. Temps in the upper 30s & low 40s or a light frost will not hurt Orinoco nanas. They are cold hardy to 28 deg. ..... My Orinoco actually grew new leaves when winter temps were in the low to mid 60s and the pstems are surviving short freezes down to 26 degs.



2) If you keep using the greenhouse, then you need to ventilate it to keep the inside temps down. The greenhouse will gain 40 plus degrees above outside ambient temps. So I'm fairly certain the greenhouse temps are over 100 deg during the day. This is causing the secondary burning to the leaves. .... Use a fan to pull outside air into the greenhouse.



3) Get and use a long stem moisture meter. Check the pot moisture at the middle and bottom of the pot and then give water if the soil is near dry.

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sirdoofus

I hadn't considered heat stress/burning leaves, could very well be and yes, you are right, the greenhouse does get quite hot during the day. I have a perfect place outside to keep them for awhile.

I have seen you recommend time and again for people to get a moisture meter and because I am a cheap bastard, I have resisted. However, given the cost of getting difficult to source plants here, I am sure its a lot cheaper than replacing them. Time to pony up a few bucks for a moisture meter.

Thank you very much for the advice, very much appreciated.

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edwmax

I'm cheap too. But your finger can not poke down to the middle or bottom of a pot. I use the Bupree moisture meter sold in the spring with their seeds from the big box stores. It's usually $10 or $12. .... I see on Amazon several from $9 to $15 and a few of those are 3-in-1 meters.


OH ... as a note ... You want and need a pot to dry out or at least be near dry before watering. This helps to kill any root rot that might be forming. The banana corm & pstem stores water for dry spells. So 1 or 2 days of dry soil will not hurt a banana plant (excluding very small TC plantlets).

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sirdoofus

Moisture meter ordered.

This is definitely my default position with potted, especially indoor, plants until I am familiar with them and their particular needs. I just got very confused with these guys and how to interpret what I was seeing with them.

I will chalk it up to a good learning experience, still in progress of course, and plan on doing things a little differently next winter.

Thank you very much for your help.

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sirdoofus

Thank you. Not dry down a few inches, but you are not the only one to suggest changing the soil. I will definitely consider it when/if I remove some pups and have a looksee at what's up below the surface.

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