First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619

sddarkman619 · 09-05-2018, 03:18 PM

So I'm giving this a shot as well. There are some plants that I've been wanting to propagate and sell for a while so that people get what they are buying and not some misnamed plants, namely Blue Java and a few others.
The plants in this post are all blue java acquired from a reputable source on here. I had donated 1 blue java plant to my daughters school as I had no room to plant more on my property, and I liked the idea of having a "Plant Bank" I could draw from. The 1 plant turned into a mat of about 15 plants. Some fruit was growing but it needed thinning.
So I spent a few hours one day thinning and culling nice corms and pups for my experiments.
Some of the corms probably won't make it as they are probably too small and have actually been killed. The larger ones seem to be doing ok and I had left roots on those and effectively killed the merristem so that shoots would form off the side of the damaged corms. These are in soil and are doing well as you will see.

A new corm was taken today, pared down and cleaned. It is now being "Seasoned", left out in the air to dry the other layer for 2 days. I will then soak it in BAP and then plant in a bin of sawdust. I cut some buds off of this corm and am soaking them in BAP solution and will plant these in soil for more plants.

The monster mat I had to thin:

the fruit:

corms for growing and experiments in Macropropagation:

after thinning. After checking on these after 2 weeks the fruit had doubled in size and one plant put out a new flower:

one of the soil grown corms that had effectively been "killed" to produce shoots form the side, there are 3 shoots after 2 weeks and the circle is the damaged top of the corm. This corm I left some root shoots on it when planting:

another one that was showing merristem growth. Happy to know it was alive and well, I "killed" the merristem to initiate side shoots:

Same thing with above here:

Plants for future experiments, all blue javas:

The temperature controlled bin with 3 small corms that are doing nothing after 3 weeks:

bin with temp sensor in the sawdust to thermostat for controlling temps:

My new corm which is a nice size, pared down and effectively killing the merristem to initiate side shoots. Currently being "Seasoned" by leaving it out for 2 days to dry the outer layer:

The buds pared off the new corm, soaking in a solution of BAP and other nutrients, will be planted later today to grow new plants for further abuse:

Richard · 09-05-2018, 09:02 PM

Not so long ago in a place not to far away ... circa 2007 in Penasquitos ... I was purchasing TC's by the tray and growing them out in 1 gallon, then 5 gallon, and the few that didn't sell, to 15 gallon. I noticed that if I didn't stay on top of upsizing the pots the individual would get cramped and the rhizomes would start forming corms, sending up pups.

Also I noticed that if I took a 2' pup from a full size plant and place it in a tall 15 gallon, its going to start pupping in a year. So I would transplant 2' pups from mother plants at the end of summer into 15gal pots. Then in the spring when they started putting on some growth, cut the pseudostem about 5 inches above the soil line. By summer, lots of pups would be present.

sddarkman619 · 09-05-2018, 09:18 PM

Thanks Richard. Going to do many experiments. This may be one of them the crowding technique.

Juicy Bananas · 09-06-2018, 03:01 AM

Looks like a nice rack of Namwa.

sddarkman619 · 09-06-2018, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy Bananas

Looks like a nice rack of Namwa.

Those aren't Namwah, they are Blue Javas.
The base plant was received from a reputable member here who have the real Blue Javas, which is what these are.
Not Namwah.

Take another look:

Akula · 09-06-2018, 11:45 AM

Hey Sddarkman,

Which woods can be used for the sawdust in propagation? Both you and Louis used sawdust and I saw that you asked Louis about soft vs. hard woods but I didn't see a definitive answer.

If I cleared a plot I would have oak (hard) and pine (soft) as the material to use as sawdust or mulch. Are these woods safe/suitable? I thought I would just run a few logs through a chipper/duster.

Thanks for any info!

sddarkman619 · 09-06-2018, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akula

Hey Sddarkman,

Which woods can be used for the sawdust in propagation? Both you and Louis used sawdust and I saw that you asked Louis about soft vs. hard woods but I didn't see a definitive answer.

If I cleared a plot I would have oak (hard) and pine (soft) as the material to use as sawdust or mulch. Are these woods safe/suitable? I thought I would just run a few logs through a chipper/duster.

Thanks for any info!

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. I'm going to use a white/soft wood this go around as the others were in a dark/hardwood last time.

Once I get some more corms going I'll be trying each every other time and see how they go.

All the videos I've watched and all the papers I've read, don't specify any type. They just say...sawdust. Or rice hulls.

sunfish · 09-07-2018, 10:34 AM

I have rice hulls 4 sale

Tytaylor77 · 09-11-2018, 08:55 PM

If you have it available in your area get rice hulls! For macro! For potting mix! For in ground backfill! For anything banana.

Perlite and ricehulls are the 2 best best things for Musa! You can’t go wrong!

sddarkman619 · 09-13-2018, 11:27 AM

So I got the rice hulls and popped the Corms in there, but what happened is that they are so light and air, they don't hold heat like the sawdust. Even with a heating mat they got too cold, so I'm going to mix some sawdust back into the hulls to hold more water and heat. Also noticed they don't hold moisture like the sawdust does. But this will be good for my soil mix.

sddarkman619 · 09-13-2018, 11:40 AM

Ty, are you using parboiled rice hulls or from the feed store(bedding)?

Mark Dragt · 10-13-2018, 10:25 PM

I just may try this over the winter. Instead if sawdust I will try sand.

Tytaylor77 · 10-14-2018, 02:51 PM

I’m using parboiled and just normal dry rice hulls. Not bedding. I have rice mills 2 hours away. They charge $10 for a truckload. Used to be free.

I will try to upload a few of my macro pics to my Flickr. I’m making a folder in Flickr named “macro”. I use normal pine sawdust. The more powdery the better.

sddarkman619 · 10-17-2018, 11:06 AM

Update on the Macro experiment. It's going well. However the corm in the soil is producing bigger faster growing plants.
Plant in the pots:
These two were harvested for member last night:

This is my sawdust bin. The pups are coming but they are slower to grow I imagine from lack of nutrients, so I mixed in some long term release fertilizer into the sawdust. These pups in the sawdust are about as old as the ones from the soil I just harvested.

imclumbi · 10-17-2018, 06:26 PM

Looking good!!! Thank you for the updates and great photos!

sddarkman619 · 11-01-2018, 12:35 PM

Here is the bud that forms at the "V" of the leaf sheaths.
One would damage the Apical Merristem to get this to pup out and form more pups. off of this one point.

sddarkman619 · 11-09-2018, 07:55 PM

Thanks to a member on this board, I now have a Raja Puri to torture! MAUAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha.....

sddarkman619 · 12-22-2018, 06:13 PM

Below are some shots of the pups I harvested today. The corm looked and smelled great.
This was in some dark hardwood saw dust and I'm going to be switching to coco coir eventually per discussion with Gabe.

Other corms I had in some Shavings of pine and they started to "mulch" and not grow. Pulled those out and switched tot he coco coir. Hence the reason for going to coco coir.

Planted these guys today and should be ready for sale in a few weeks after rooting in the new pots.

Corm was placed back in the bin with same saw dust. So goes the experiments. So far so good!
Thanks to all who have helped, Luis, Ty, Gabe, Richard and Mark.

Akula · 12-22-2018, 07:22 PM

Great job and documentation SDDarkman! Very nice photos! Thanks for letting us know to stay away from pine sawdust. That stuff is very prevalent in my area.

Looks like those Blue Java pups are thoroughly documented with their own thread!

sddarkman619 · 12-22-2018, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akula

Looks like those Blue Java pups are thoroughly documented with their own thread!

Yes they are.

Came from Crazy Banana and they grow like weeds. I actually finally got to eat some. My wife loves them, ate the whole bunch.

09-05-2018, 03:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,148 BananaBucks : 189,865 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 340 Times Was Thanked 1,220 Times in 536 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 So I'm giving this a shot as well. There are some plants that I've been wanting to propagate and sell for a while so that people get what they are buying and not some misnamed plants, namely Blue Java and a few others. The plants in this post are all blue java acquired from a reputable source on here. I had donated 1 blue java plant to my daughters school as I had no room to plant more on my property, and I liked the idea of having a "Plant Bank" I could draw from. The 1 plant turned into a mat of about 15 plants. Some fruit was growing but it needed thinning. So I spent a few hours one day thinning and culling nice corms and pups for my experiments. Some of the corms probably won't make it as they are probably too small and have actually been killed. The larger ones seem to be doing ok and I had left roots on those and effectively killed the merristem so that shoots would form off the side of the damaged corms. These are in soil and are doing well as you will see. A new corm was taken today, pared down and cleaned. It is now being "Seasoned", left out in the air to dry the other layer for 2 days. I will then soak it in BAP and then plant in a bin of sawdust. I cut some buds off of this corm and am soaking them in BAP solution and will plant these in soil for more plants. The monster mat I had to thin: the fruit: corms for growing and experiments in Macropropagation: after thinning. After checking on these after 2 weeks the fruit had doubled in size and one plant put out a new flower: one of the soil grown corms that had effectively been "killed" to produce shoots form the side, there are 3 shoots after 2 weeks and the circle is the damaged top of the corm. This corm I left some root shoots on it when planting: another one that was showing merristem growth. Happy to know it was alive and well, I "killed" the merristem to initiate side shoots: Same thing with above here: Plants for future experiments, all blue javas: The temperature controlled bin with 3 small corms that are doing nothing after 3 weeks: bin with temp sensor in the sawdust to thermostat for controlling temps: My new corm which is a nice size, pared down and effectively killing the merristem to initiate side shoots. Currently being "Seasoned" by leaving it out for 2 days to dry the outer layer: The buds pared off the new corm, soaking in a solution of BAP and other nutrients, will be planted later today to grow new plants for further abuse: __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here

09-05-2018, 09:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 511,635 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Not so long ago in a place not to far away ... circa 2007 in Penasquitos ... I was purchasing TC's by the tray and growing them out in 1 gallon, then 5 gallon, and the few that didn't sell, to 15 gallon. I noticed that if I didn't stay on top of upsizing the pots the individual would get cramped and the rhizomes would start forming corms, sending up pups. Also I noticed that if I took a 2' pup from a full size plant and place it in a tall 15 gallon, its going to start pupping in a year. So I would transplant 2' pups from mother plants at the end of summer into 15gal pots. Then in the spring when they started putting on some growth, cut the pseudostem about 5 inches above the soil line. By summer, lots of pups would be present. __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

09-05-2018, 09:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,148 BananaBucks : 189,865 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 340 Times Was Thanked 1,220 Times in 536 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Thanks Richard. Going to do many experiments. This may be one of them the crowding technique. __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here

09-06-2018, 03:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
Juicy Bananas Location: Big Island Zone: 10 Name: Alva Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 170 BananaBucks : 9,298 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 14 Times Was Thanked 259 Times in 121 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 16 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Looks like a nice rack of Namwa.

09-06-2018, 11:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
Akula Location: Pensacola, Florida Find me on the map! Zone: Zone 9a Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 1,236 BananaBucks : 70,707 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,540 Times Was Thanked 2,381 Times in 809 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 128 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Hey Sddarkman, Which woods can be used for the sawdust in propagation? Both you and Louis used sawdust and I saw that you asked Louis about soft vs. hard woods but I didn't see a definitive answer. If I cleared a plot I would have oak (hard) and pine (soft) as the material to use as sawdust or mulch. Are these woods safe/suitable? I thought I would just run a few logs through a chipper/duster. Thanks for any info!

Members currently in the chatroom: 0
	The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009. No one is currently using the chat.

09-07-2018, 10:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 952,436 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,591 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 I have rice hulls 4 sale

09-11-2018, 08:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tytaylor77 Banana Plants for Trade Location: East Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Ty Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,367 BananaBucks : 47,926 Feedback: 11 / 100% Said "Thanks" 4,612 Times Was Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,185 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 424 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 If you have it available in your area get rice hulls! For macro! For potting mix! For in ground backfill! For anything banana. Perlite and ricehulls are the 2 best best things for Musa! You can’t go wrong! __________________ 150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more! CLICK HERE TO SEE PICTURES OF MY MUSA COLLECTION! www.bananapups.com

09-13-2018, 11:27 AM	#10 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,148 BananaBucks : 189,865 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 340 Times Was Thanked 1,220 Times in 536 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 So I got the rice hulls and popped the Corms in there, but what happened is that they are so light and air, they don't hold heat like the sawdust. Even with a heating mat they got too cold, so I'm going to mix some sawdust back into the hulls to hold more water and heat. Also noticed they don't hold moisture like the sawdust does. But this will be good for my soil mix. __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here

09-13-2018, 11:40 AM	#11 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,148 BananaBucks : 189,865 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 340 Times Was Thanked 1,220 Times in 536 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Ty, are you using parboiled rice hulls or from the feed store(bedding)? __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here

10-13-2018, 10:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
Mark Dragt Location: Rochester,Wa Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 823 BananaBucks : 34,597 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,357 Times Was Thanked 1,718 Times in 635 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 332 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 I just may try this over the winter. Instead if sawdust I will try sand. __________________ Mark's Banana Forest Paradise

10-14-2018, 02:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
Tytaylor77 Banana Plants for Trade Location: East Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Ty Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,367 BananaBucks : 47,926 Feedback: 11 / 100% Said "Thanks" 4,612 Times Was Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,185 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 424 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 I’m using parboiled and just normal dry rice hulls. Not bedding. I have rice mills 2 hours away. They charge $10 for a truckload. Used to be free. I will try to upload a few of my macro pics to my Flickr. I’m making a folder in Flickr named “macro”. I use normal pine sawdust. The more powdery the better. __________________ 150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more! CLICK HERE TO SEE PICTURES OF MY MUSA COLLECTION! www.bananapups.com Last edited by Tytaylor77 : 10-14-2018 at 02:57 PM.

10-17-2018, 11:06 AM	#14 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,148 BananaBucks : 189,865 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 340 Times Was Thanked 1,220 Times in 536 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Update on the Macro experiment. It's going well. However the corm in the soil is producing bigger faster growing plants. Plant in the pots: These two were harvested for member last night: This is my sawdust bin. The pups are coming but they are slower to grow I imagine from lack of nutrients, so I mixed in some long term release fertilizer into the sawdust. These pups in the sawdust are about as old as the ones from the soil I just harvested. __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here

10-17-2018, 06:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
imclumbi Location: Davie, Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 10b Name: John Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 440 BananaBucks : 51,217 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 511 Times Was Thanked 693 Times in 228 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 6 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Looking good!!! Thank you for the updates and great photos! __________________ The Musa Muse - an all things banana and plantain forum. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Them...epa=SEARCH_BOX John

11-01-2018, 12:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,148 BananaBucks : 189,865 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 340 Times Was Thanked 1,220 Times in 536 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Here is the bud that forms at the "V" of the leaf sheaths. One would damage the Apical Merristem to get this to pup out and form more pups. off of this one point. __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here

11-09-2018, 07:55 PM	#17 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,148 BananaBucks : 189,865 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 340 Times Was Thanked 1,220 Times in 536 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Thanks to a member on this board, I now have a Raja Puri to torture! MAUAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha..... __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here Last edited by sddarkman619 : 11-09-2018 at 07:59 PM.

12-22-2018, 06:13 PM	#18 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,148 BananaBucks : 189,865 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 340 Times Was Thanked 1,220 Times in 536 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	HArvest of First Pups - First Macropropagation - Sddarkman619 Below are some shots of the pups I harvested today. The corm looked and smelled great. This was in some dark hardwood saw dust and I'm going to be switching to coco coir eventually per discussion with Gabe. Other corms I had in some Shavings of pine and they started to "mulch" and not grow. Pulled those out and switched tot he coco coir. Hence the reason for going to coco coir. Planted these guys today and should be ready for sale in a few weeks after rooting in the new pots. Corm was placed back in the bin with same saw dust. So goes the experiments. So far so good! Thanks to all who have helped, Luis, Ty, Gabe, Richard and Mark. __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here

12-22-2018, 07:22 PM	#19 (permalink)
Akula Location: Pensacola, Florida Find me on the map! Zone: Zone 9a Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 1,236 BananaBucks : 70,707 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,540 Times Was Thanked 2,381 Times in 809 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 128 Times	Re: First Macropropagation experiments - Sddarkman619 Great job and documentation SDDarkman! Very nice photos! Thanks for letting us know to stay away from pine sawdust. That stuff is very prevalent in my area. Looks like those Blue Java pups are thoroughly documented with their own thread!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Growing hormones, stimulators experiments. A lill bit of practical knowledge.	tomekmwa	Banana Plant Soil, Additives, and Fertilizer	10	08-22-2018 04:19 PM
Macropropagation for basjoo?	H2O	Tissue Culturing & Other Propagation Techniques of Banana Plants	3	05-21-2012 01:58 AM