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Old 07-06-2009, 07:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

I didn't see much so far when doing a search. Is there a graph somewhere that breaks down the time frame of fruiting for each strain of banana?
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

There are some general ranges and some varieties that will fruit sooner than others in the same conditions, but its as influenced by growing conditions as it is genetics, so you can't really say how long a particular variety will take to flower without considering its environment. This especially true for this community where we have growers all over the world in many different climates and growing conditions wondering how long it will take their plants to fruit.

That being said, most edible varieties will take anywhere from 9-18months to flower the first time, some sooner or later though. In a container indoors its usually 2-3X longer given that the container is large enough and there is enough light and warmth.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

So the second fruiting of the shoots are shorter?

I am wondering also some help as to what the best commercial strain would be? Total poundage of nanners?

I am thinking in a stress free environment.................what the timeline would be?
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

Each shoot only fruits once, but the plant creates multiple shoots which will grow along side the first one, when the first shoot is done flowering, it dies back and the other ones are already partially grown the so the time between bunches from the same whole plant shortens.

'Gran Nain' is the dominant commercial variety, but not necessarily the best for production in all growing conditions. In Hawaii, in part shade, without much fertilizer and crummy soil, mine took 15 months from planting to flower, and will take another 4 months or so for the fruit to develop, but again, this time will vary depending on specific growing conditions.

What are you trying to do exactly, and where are you located? This will help us answer your questions better and give other helpful suggestions.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

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So the second fruiting of the shoots are shorter?
It is very rare to have a second fruiting. The corm puts out 30 to 40 leaves. The leaf stems are what forms the pseudo-stem (pseudo tree-trunk). Somewhere typically 30 or 40 leaves in the growth, the corm sends up a flower bud. After the fruit has formed, the corm puts little to no energy into the maintanence of that "stalk".

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I am wondering also some help as to what the best commercial strain would be? Total poundage of nanners?
Commercial strain to grow where? The recommendation for Ohio will be quite different from southern Florida. Also there is a wide varieties of tastes to consider. Some are fruity, some are fragrant, some are super sweet, some are excellent cooked, ...
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

O.B. I think what you are asking and Gabe is trying to tell you is that in Hawaii( ultimate, ideal conditions 12 months a year) a banana using the Gran nain as an example will take 19 months to produce an edible fruit. I have not yet even had a flower but have to assume that same Gran Nain (not one I'd choose) might take 3 -4 years to flower if at all. This is an educated guess based on variables that include but not limited to: potted vs. inground, overwintering method dormant vs greenhouse for example, average temperatures during growing season, if overwintering in greenhouse can you keep it growing actively( tough to do unless you have unlimited resources for heating $) fertilization, variety(super important to do your homework here), watering and all the other cultural practices.
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Old 07-06-2009, 09:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

Equally, I who am in Ecuador, can take a Gran Nain from pup to fruiting in just under 15 months, with 3 more for ripening, in ideal conditions 12 months a year (no floods, etc.) The much tastier Gros Michel Improved takes 18 months and 4 more to ripen.

It's very dependant on the cultivar and your conditions.
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Old 07-06-2009, 09:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

When you guys are talking "Perfect Conditions", do you feel that growing indoors under a 600 Watt HID lighting system, better or worse than conditions in say Florida or Hawaii?

I am growing a Gran Nain and 2 Dwarf Cavendish, and the Gran Nain has really taken off, putting out a new leaf every 3-5 days. I am in Central Ohio, but will be keeping them inside under Grow Lights 12-14 hours a day, 75 degrees, with added humidity. In your estimation, are these conditions under Artificial Lighting, better than outdoor situations in Tropical Areas?

Personally, I am hoping for fruit in 12-16 months. I am currently worried about the size of Pots I should use as they grow. Any suggestions from the experts?
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

40 gallon pot -- "squat" shaped each.
1900 gross Watts equivalent of T5 lights per plant, distributed in multiple fixtures.
1 lb net Nitrogen, 1/4 lb net phosphate, and 1.5 lb net potash per plant per year, divided up into monthly doses and attenuated for younger plants, plus micronutrients. The most cost effective way to achieve this is with a commercial water-soluble product. Small doses of Seaweed extract will help root development in young plants.
Humidity not to exceed 75% unless you are willing to have serious countermeasures for fungi.
Temperature range of 75 F to 85 F year round.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:17 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

In S.Fl. (my backyard) , every variety I have grown has produced a bunch of fruit in under 12 mo., with 3 to 4 more mo. to ripen. Most of them were around 10 mo. They are watered regularly and fertilized heavily, most get full sun. The soil is mostly sand, so I add a lot of organic amendments and mulch heavily. Most of them were TCs about 1 1/2' to 2' tall when planted, and some were sword suckers about the same height. So far I have tried 25 varieties, with no real noticeable difference, except D. Brazilian took about 6 mo. to ripen its fruit!
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

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When you guys are talking "Perfect Conditions", do you feel that growing indoors under a 600 Watt HID lighting system, better or worse than conditions in say Florida or Hawaii?


Just in principle, plants in pots do not seem to do as well as those in the ground. While the root system may have some room to grow, to will be constrained. When we dig up even small well rooted plants here, we cut roots that are deeper and wider than the drip line.


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I am growing a Gran Nain and 2 Dwarf Cavendish, and the Gran Nain has really taken off, putting out a new leaf every 3-5 days. I am in Central Ohio, but will be keeping them inside under Grow Lights 12-14 hours a day, 75 degrees, with added humidity. In your estimation, are these conditions under Artificial Lighting, better than outdoor situations in Tropical Areas?
How tall are the plants getting? Can you accommodate a 15 foot tall plant?


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Personally, I am hoping for fruit in 12-16 months. I am currently worried about the size of Pots I should use as they grow. Any suggestions from the experts?
I am no expert. I wish you the best of luck, it is hard enough to do it in the ground!
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:37 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeye5755 View Post
When you guys are talking "Perfect Conditions", do you feel that growing indoors under a 600 Watt HID lighting system, better or worse than conditions in say Florida or Hawaii?

I am growing a Gran Nain and 2 Dwarf Cavendish, and the Gran Nain has really taken off, putting out a new leaf every 3-5 days. I am in Central Ohio, but will be keeping them inside under Grow Lights 12-14 hours a day, 75 degrees, with added humidity. In your estimation, are these conditions under Artificial Lighting, better than outdoor situations in Tropical Areas?

Personally, I am hoping for fruit in 12-16 months. I am currently worried about the size of Pots I should use as they grow. Any suggestions from the experts?
Like a lot of us you're providing an excellent habitat for your naners. 600 watt system is great. Don't forget humidity and air circulation easily provided with a room humidifier and small fan. Just that you cant replicate the tropics entirely. For myself I started collecting more of the dwarf and faster bearing varieties after just buying desirable cultivars for the tropics. Look in to Ca. Gold, Ca. Cold hardy, Dwarf Nam wah, super Dwarf Cavendish( I'm sure your D. Cavendish are as good a choice), Veinte Cohol. These are some that I've determined will give me a chance at a flower and of course I hope fruit if the time of flowering is ideal.
Interesting observation here that all my potted plants outgrew those in the ground until about last week when almost imperceptibly those in the ground caught up or overtook the potted. Good luck, were all learning what works.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Interesting observation here that all my potted plants outgrew those in the ground until about last week when almost imperceptibly those in the ground caught up or overtook the potted. Good luck, were all learning what works.
That is likely due to the night-time low temperatures increasing into the summer range several weeks ago.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeye5755 View Post
When you guys are talking "Perfect Conditions", do you feel that growing indoors under a 600 Watt HID lighting system, better or worse than conditions in say Florida or Hawaii?

I am growing a Gran Nain and 2 Dwarf Cavendish, and the Gran Nain has really taken off, putting out a new leaf every 3-5 days. I am in Central Ohio, but will be keeping them inside under Grow Lights 12-14 hours a day, 75 degrees, with added humidity. In your estimation, are these conditions under Artificial Lighting, better than outdoor situations in Tropical Areas?

Personally, I am hoping for fruit in 12-16 months. I am currently worried about the size of Pots I should use as they grow. Any suggestions from the experts?
i am growing my bananas under 600W HPS. The plants are growing extremely well.

i give them a liquid fertilizer every other day that i pH and ppm. I have all this equipment because of a failed attempt at growing a bananas hydroponically.

i have them on a 16hr on and 8 hr off grow light cycle. if i grew them outside they would freeze in the winter, so i am having fun keeping them indoors.

i dont know about pot size, but they seem to get root bound about every two weeks under these conditions. i just bought 14" azalea terra cotta pots. these pots are wider and shallower than standard pots. i am gonna mix up a hydroton and rockwool growing medium for them. i will keep an update on their progress. For now, they are growing big and strong!

ur indoor setup is going to allow ur bananas to grow quick and healthy. it will be hard for u to keep up with pot size. my bananas dont seem to mind being root bound and continue to grow and produce leaves. i am switching to bigger pots because i noticed today that the roots are starting to grow out of the drain hole.

grow on!
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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i dont know about pot size, but they seem to get root bound about every two weeks under these conditions. i just bought 14" azalea terra cotta pots. these pots are wider and shallower than standard pots. i am gonna mix up a hydroton and rockwool growing medium for them. i will keep an update on their progress. For now, they are growing big and strong!
Thats like 10gal. Outside I'm using 45gal for the smaller and 65gal on the ice cream. Plus the ones I use automatically root prune.
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

word up, yo!

where da hydro banana pics?
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

Didn't get a chance to take pictures. Still my latest pics. Its a good deal bigger now

Update on my Hydroponic Raja Puri

BTW I fixed the Procyon 100 myself.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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40 gallon pot -- "squat" shaped each.
1900 gross Watts equivalent of T5 lights per plant, distributed in multiple fixtures.
1 lb net Nitrogen, 1/4 lb net phosphate, and 1.5 lb net potash per plant per year, divided up into monthly doses and attenuated for younger plants, plus micronutrients. The most cost effective way to achieve this is with a commercial water-soluble product. Small doses of Seaweed extract will help root development in young plants.
Humidity not to exceed 75% unless you are willing to have serious countermeasures for fungi.
Temperature range of 75 F to 85 F year round.
Non-alkaline water.
About a month ago I consulted for a grower with several 20,000 sq.ft. greenhouses that was converting a few of them to fruits and vegetables. One was for bananas. We concluded that 200 plants would be entirely feasible. There seems to be consensus in the literature that during the onset of bud development and then fruiting, musas will utilize photo energy at an average rate of 1000 W to 1200 W peak. Both of us being engineering/science types, we then back-calculated to units of gross wattage of T5 lighting fixtures -- since many where already installed at the facility. We took into account the distance of the fixtures from the plants, incident angle, and expected humidity. This lead us to the figure of 1900 gross-fixture-Watts per plant. The greenhouses are standard type with 12-foot vertical walls and a hemispherical ceiling. The outer material is 40% opaque and 80% diffuse. The lighting fixtures are placed so that they will block only a minimum of sunlight during daylight hours, and during night-time and darker days can provide light from above and from the sides at 20-degrees off horizontal. The fixtures are regulated by electronic photo-gates so that the number of fixtures on + any available sunlight ~= 1200 Watts incident on the plants during the critical growth stage. For young plants, the threshold is half that.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:11 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Timeline of Fruiting for Each Strain of Banana

You would be surprised on what you can grow in a controlled environment. I am looking at a commercial strain that produces well so it offsets the total grow costs. So a fast well endowed fruiting is what I am looking for.

The most efficient lighting that I use is HPS, because of wattage used versus lumens produced. LED is just too expensive ATM, but it is the future. Running the lights vertically on light movers would be the way to go. From my reading I understand that Bananas are heavy feeders, so Hydro would be very beneficial to them since your supplying everything to them. In other plants that I've grown, the root mass stays relatively smaller due to supply being so close. Also in Hydro the total time frame to mature is cut by 20-25%. I am guessing a 55 gallon medium would suffice even when suckers are present and growing. I am still doing some more reading, but if you have something you can add....just post it.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You would be surprised on what you can grow in a controlled environment. I am looking at a commercial strain that produces well so it offsets the total grow costs. So a fast well endowed fruiting is what I am looking for.
You will find them documented here: http://195.220.148.3:8013/mgis_2/homepage.htm
The best way to utilize the data is to provide an empty search string in "Accessions" and obtain the entire listing, then send the data to your computer by cut-and-paste, or "printing" to a PDF file, etc. The MGIS database does have search options for particular attributes but (1) it is poorly implemented and (2) the actual data is not input in a consistent manner -- so you will accidentally miss some entries.

There are about a dozen cultivars that will produce 150 lbs (gross) of fruit per inflorescence in a sub-tropical or near-tropical environment, with about the same gestation period given equal environmental factors. Among these, it is a matter of customer preference and taste.

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The most efficient lighting that I use is HPS, because of wattage used versus lumens produced.
Many commercial growers choose not to use HPS because it is too directional and more expensive per lumen in the long run than an array of T5 tubes.

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From my reading I understand that Bananas are heavy feeders, so Hydro would be very beneficial to them since your supplying everything to them.
Hydroponics does give you a lot of control over variables, but at some point the monitoring process and maintenance of supplement systems becomes time-intensive -- even with automated systems. It is more tractable to maintain the Ca, Mg, and Zn levels in a partial soil media -- for example 60% coir and 40% mix of mineral and organic soil materials.

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In other plants that I've grown, the root mass stays relatively smaller due to supply being so close.
Bananas are a corm, with networks of rhizomes and roots. At maturity, a semi-dwarf variety can burst the seams of a 1/2 barrel -- soil-less media or otherwise. Keep in mind that in bananas and other large fruits, fruit production is proportional to the volume of root structures.

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Also in Hydro the total time frame to mature is cut by 20-25%.
Perhaps in Ohio. There are plenty of counter-examples here in San Diego CA and elsewhere in the world.
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