fergus banana

T5 is too expensive.
HPS is tried and true and cheap -can't really beat it.

If you grow hydroponically, all you have to do is mix specially formulated nutrient for the bananas - everything is in there, you dont have to worry about adding a bunch of supplements. There are plenty of high quality hydroponic nutrients out there.

bottom line: hydroponics and HPS will kick sunlight (never enough of it out here) and soils butt everytime!

Richard

I can understand it for retail prices and a growing a few plants indoors. But the opposite of what you say is true for a commercial operation that buys lights by the truckload and has 10's of 1000's of square feet of growing space.

Commercially, hydroponics is a water-delivery and collection system. The media can be soil-less or soil-full.

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buckeye5755

When you say the 1900 Watts of T5 Lighting for plant, how does it equate into Lumens? I am looking at a 600 Watt Metal Halide and HPS Conversion system, the Metal Halide bulb using 88,000 Lumens, and the HPS using 95,000 Lumens of light. Do you consider this sufficient for 3 Plants?

I have gotten the Grow More 20-5-30 Fertilizer from your store, and am using it at every third watering. The temperature and Humidity will not be a problem either.

Richard

There are some design considerations. I believe your ceiling is 11 foot high and consequently the light source will be very close to the plants. Hence, there is less attenuation to consider. If you are growing in a household room with white walls, then there will be more reflectance and less absorption by non-plant media. You also have issues with placing multiple systems in the room so that the output can dispersed vertically throughout the plant structures. Also, halide and HPS systems are about 10% more efficient than T5's in terms of power-output / operating-power in the majority of the bulb lifetime.

For a 10 ft by 15 ft room, I would start with two of your HPS systems for your young plants. As the plants increase to 5 foot pseudostem, I would want to increase the number of systems to 4 -- unless placement would make this unfeasible.

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buckeye5755

Your right about limited space. I only have 11 ft vertically at my highpoint. I am going to be purchasing the Reflective Mylar coating to maximize light reflectivity and absorbtion for the plants.

As for light sources, I was lucky enough to convince The Wife to let me get one, not so sure she would let me get 2 or 4 considering the Energy Costs associated.

What I have looked into is a Rail system to move the light to effectively get all angles of the plant, as well as constructing a mover to set the plants on, and move them 2-3 times daily to get the different angles. I have a few months to make a final decision before I need to start growing them under it, so hopefully I figure it out.

Also I was told my another member, that if the plants I have (Gran Nain, now with two small Pups, and 2 Dwarf Cavendish) become too large to have the light source above them, that with the right reflective hood, I could provide the light to them from an angle, beside, or below the plant.

Richard

The rail system will actually reduce the amount of light your plants receive. You are better off with a diffuse reflection surface. Don't move your plants either.

The mylar is a great option: be aware that you might need a way to exhaust excess heat.

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buckeye5755

Yea, the heat is something I worry about in a confined small space, but we are using our garage, which we just insulated this year (Old House), and doesn't have heat ducts. I am going to be using a Space Heater to heat the room, so the light heat may have a desireable effect. In terms of energy costs, I have actually found it cheaper personally, to use Space heaters where I need them, rather than let the older Furnace System run continously and displace excess heat where I don't need it.

The thing that worries me is where the excess heat will go. As is said, he rises, and if I have the lights running 1 ft from the ceiling, which considering it is an older garage, older wood, and insulation (No drywall or plywood), I may be forced to use an exhaust fan to reduce risk of a fire.

I am looking at different reflectors as well. Generally, the closed in ones offer a vent to cool the unit. Do reflectors that do not have vents, such as a Lightwing or Sun Soaker reflector dissipate the heat enough to justify no fan, or is the light lost just not worth it?

Here's a link to some reflector's I am looking at. Got a favorite for my situation? Personally I like the Sun Soaker, just worried about the heat.

High Tech Garden Supply

fergus banana

get a 600W HPS grow light. it works like a dream. i am growing 4 banana plants under it and 1 colocasia gigantea. they are growing like crazy.

i run them on for 16hrs and off for 8hrs. i feed them hydroponic nutrient every other day and they love it.

forget T5.

HPS is tried and true.

Richard

In a "small space", yes. For 10's of 1000's of square feet, the hardware and replacement costs over a 5 year period are about 4 times less with T5. This is due in part to the outrageous retail pricing of T5 bulbs.

Personally I would attach a small network of 4-inch PVC pipes horizontally to the ceiling. Perhaps a 10' by 10' square with two side pipes leading off somewhere -- to the floor? In the square section, drill 1/2 inch holes in the bottom about 18 inches on center. At the two "exit" locations, mount two computer fans. Get them from a computer repair shop or recycling center -- they usually last much longer than the electronics.

I like aluminum reflectors with baffles.

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ewitte

I've always found EVERYTHING retail is outrageous.

Richard

I guess that a 600W HPS would be great for a few pot plants in a modest size rectangular closet. There is a prominent hydroponic retailer in southern California who has performed numerous trials with growing medical marijuana (under the CA license) indoors and outdoors, typically 1/2 dozen to a dozen plants. They have looked at many aspects, including the kind of hydroponics (e.g., static, soil-less immersion, etc.), nutrient brands, lighting, and so forth. The studies have been respectable in that they use control groups. All other things being equal, they repeatedly obtain "better" results with T5 lighting. The main explanation given for this is the diffuse nature of the light and the original (un-shifted) generated spectrum. If you are an electro-optic geek, then we can discuss it further.

These folks have demonstrated that T5 should be given some consideration when choosing artificial lighting for plants. Of course cost of materials available to you is also a major factor.

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fergus banana

I think this is being way too nit-picky. there are too many variables to say what produces the best growth - CO2, nutrients, medium, etc...

The less complicated the better and you can't dispute HPS for for indoor growing. It is obvious that you can obtain excellent growth results with HPS.

Richard

These are extensive trials, and I meant it literally when I said "all other things being equal".

I'm not disputing it, I'm endorsing it. At the same time, I think you are mistaken to tell people to forget about T5.

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fergus banana

Thats kewl.
Grow on.

Peace.

Ohio'sBest

Here are some illustrations from a friend I met on line in '04. Putting the bulbs in between the plants instead of above them. Please disregard what he grew, but proof is in the pudding with his madness.

Patty in Wisc

True! The question that Ohio's Best asked is about timeframe for fruiting & not getting technical about lighting.
Last winter, I had a 12 ft IC in a south facing 6 1/2ft window w/ another big window top of that in a 18ft celing room. On a table next to it we had a 500 watt halogen shining up at it from 3pm till 7:30pm. It grew 12 big healthy leaves from Nov till April. Beacause of the growth, I fert'd every 7 - 10 days w/ Banana Fuel. The winter before, I did Frank's (Bigdog) method of putting it to sleep.
Ave. nanas need 12 - 18 months of almost tropical weather to fruit. Now, I take away those months of it being dormant (or add those months to its growing time to fruit).
I think growing 12 leaves during winter here w/ only few hours of 500 watts is pretty good!
And, lights (no matter what you use) don't always have to be directly above the plant.

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fergus banana

Banana Fuel? Where did you get it? How did you like it - or how did ur plants like it? Thanks.

Richard

Oh, way down in the thread Buckeye asked about lighting here:

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Patty in Wisc

Me and my plants LOVE it. It's formulated for nanas... is 15-5-30 w/ all the micro's. Only need 1/2 to 1 tsp per gal. & I fert every 7 -10 days when acvtively growing. I have 11 plants, & one 3 lb bag lasts about a year or more for all. I'll get you link to site but I think this'll work Wellspringgardens.org

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Richard

Well, Banana Fuel is actually formulated for fruiting Bananas in the tropics. It is a great fertilizer but if you use it outside a nitrogen-rich environment (like the tropics), it is recommended you also use a 5% Nitrogen-only supplement -- matched in weight to the amount of Banana Fuel you use.

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