Sharonp1953

Lol...yep, I am a fellow ancient. I will also PM you some links

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Yug

It is more frustrating watching a few holdouts keep buying into this scam when I see record snowfall and temps that seem to show precisely the opposite. Those holdouts will buy into the stories that support their opinion, while denying facts and real evidence in the other direction. They have made up their minds, and little short of a new ice age will change them. Some would no doubt STILL attempt to blame the ice age on global warming. (you can call it global climate change, but it is the same clan as the global warming tribe. Don't call it a different name, keep the same people, and expect me to believe it now.)

What if the 'global-climate-change' people are wrong? Then companies are getting fleeced by making them buy/sell/trade carbon credits (of course one of the major polluters, china, decided to not play this game, so what difference will the rest make?) just to stay in business. And in case you forgot, any cost to a business is passed on to consumers. In other words, WE are getting fleeced. Meanwhile, the major polluters get off scot-free while our lifestyle suffers. Gee, fat lot of good carbon credits did us, neh?

About that term 'global climate change'...

The term 'global climate change' was adopted by the 'global warming' cult when it was obvious that they didn't have the science/data to support their fearmongering. Then further evidence against them was discovered when emails surfaced that indicated they were intentionally altering data, cherry picking which temp guages they would use to support their lie, and then threatening/intimidating any that didn't believe their lies. This fearmongering was intended to be the impetus behind adopting a 'global carbon tax' so the major industrial nations stupid enough to believe it (read: US) would be penalized financially, while other countries (actually those countries' pocket-dictators or their cronies at the UN) would get wealth they were unable or unwilling to EARN themselves. The worst polluters, China and others, refused to be fleeced by this sham. The global-warming cult then decided to use 'global-climate-change' because the climate will always change (of course it does, even an idiot can see that, but is it our fault? Since this hasn't been proven, the argument has morphed into, "but what if it IS true? We have to do something merely on the CHANCE it is true."), and anyone that denies the change would be branded an idiot since we all know it changes. That STILL doesn't prove that we are doing it. Also, if a few industrialized nations adopt this farce, they lose ground on the world scene while others gain it. If you then become a 2nd world, or 3rd world nation I guess you can smugly be satisfied with yourselves while other nations take over and dictate THEIR terms to you, or else... Now, they are big and powerful, and you are little or nothing. How much has your belief in an unproven 'pseudo-science' gotten you? Nothing but a back seat to someone ELSE driving the car now. Someone who may just be willing to put a bullet in the back of someone's head for merely disagreeing with them (sounds almost like the violent threats against the 'deniers', doesn't it?). Personally, I like the idea of the U.S. driving rather than Communist China. I guess you are entitled to your opinions, though. (but if they take the reins, you will then be entitled to THEIR opinion whether you like it or not, but, hey, you still can go down feeling smugly self-satisfied that you did the moral thing(at least you thought it was while being duped as algore got rich) while the rest took over by doing bad things. Where does this leave our grandchildren now? Duped, but wiser. And maybe harboring a quiet resentment for the fools a few generations prior that have now put them under the heel of nations that don't give a rip about their 'feeeeeelings'.

Here is more evidence to ignore:
Historic freeze could break Midwest temp records
(quote from article) "All the ingredients are there for a near-record or historic cold outbreak," he said "If you're under 40 (years old), you've not seen this stuff before."

Coldest Air in 20 Years to Aim at Nation's Heartland

Snowy owl invasion of US extends to Florida
(quote from article) "An invasion of snowy owls has been reported this winter across the Midwest, Northeast and Mid-Atlantic states."

Canada is so cold residents are experiencing loud booms caused by 'frost quakes'

Have a nice day!

Funkthulhu

Thank you for posting links to some of the extreme short-term, localized weather events that are being exacerbated by the global warming trend.

Polar Vortex: Climate Change Could Be the Cause of Record Cold Weather | TIME.com

Oddly enough (for your opinion), it is the abnormally warm High pressure zone just this side of Greenland that has cut into the polar vortex and forced all this arctic air to move south.

Now, while you're sailing on that failboat, can you give me the denier explaination to why most of Australia is more or less on fire right now?

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Funkthulhu

I'm only 36,

However, I have a Bachelors of Science in Geoscience, and a Masters Degree in Geology (my thesis was on ancient climate shifts) which is the main source of my scientific understanding of global warming in general.

And yet, education aside, I still swear it was colder when I was a kid.

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"Ph'nglui musaglw'nanna Funkthulhu R'Omahaea wgah'basjoo fhtagn"
"In his house at Omaha, dread Funkthulhu plants bananas."

Abnshrek

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I'm a Nannerhead :^)

momoese

You deniers won't be arguing on Reddit anymore!

Internet forum Reddit bans climate change deniers | GrindTV.com

Abnshrek

They couldn't handle the truth so they removed it.. Must be up for some B.S. Grant soon.. :^)

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Funkthulhu

"truth" requires unquestioning belief

"fact" can be proven in a lab...

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"Ph'nglui musaglw'nanna Funkthulhu R'Omahaea wgah'basjoo fhtagn"
"In his house at Omaha, dread Funkthulhu plants bananas."

harveyc

Banning free speech is never something to celebrate. That's stupid.

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momoese

Free speech has limits, like on privately owned internet sites. You want free speech, go stand in your yard and yell all you want, that is until your neighbors call the police and they shoot you for acting strange.

harveyc

That's some more stupid.

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momoese

Climate change denial is stupid.

harveyc

If you look more closely, I did not say "right to free speech". Free speech has limits, but it should not be restricted just because of a disagreement. The argument that their site was losing credibility because of the deniers appears ridiculous. If the arguments of deniers are clearly without merit, the reputation of the site should not suffer at all.

Saying there is a problem such as climate change but taking no personal responsibility to change it ala Al Gore is stupid. Solar power is providing 100% of my electricity needs and reducing CO2. What have you done to make things better?

I've not denied climate change nor affirmed it, nor the cause. I have asked questions or concerns I've had on this thread previously that have not been addressed by those that have swallowed the GCC pill. When there are problems with data (like reporting Russia's September numbers again in October) or poor weather station locations that seem insane, why don't these get addressed?

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momoese

There was a good reason, nothing stupid about it. 100% their right to do as they wish.

And goody for you using solar. If I could afford to install it I would. Does that make me a bad guy and you a savior, cause that's the way you framed it.

harveyc

Their reason for doing so is stupid and to celebrate their decision is stupid and to disagree with it being stupid is stupid. Got it?

That is not the way I framed it, maybe you're feeling guilty or something. People that think GCC is a serious problem should be doing whatever they can. If they can't afford solar, then they should be doing whatever else they can. Giving up meat can help (I've not done that) raising meet and transporting it, etc. takes a lot of emergy and produces a lot of methane that is more harmful than CO2, supposedly. Someone like Al Gore that has a huge house and private jet has a very big carbon footprint which seems contrary to the actions that he says is needed to stop GCC. He cries would have a lot more credence if he put his foot where his mouth is.

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momoese

What I do have is respect for a business decision. And yes I find it amusing as well. Got it?



We do what we can. We don't eat much meat, and the meat we do eat is locally, sustainably grown without GMO feed, free pastured, grass fed and finished. But you already knew that Harvey. We also only buy locally grown organic produce which lightens our carbon footprint. Ah but you already knew that too! We walk or bike within reason, neither of us are athletes. Neither of us drive gas guzzling SUV's. We rarely use our home heater even on cold nights for our area nights. I compost all of our garden and kitchen scraps. We are cautious about our electricity usage. We recycle everything possible. And we do not deny Climate Change! Nope no guilt here.


And really, enough about Gore. We all know he's an ass.

harveyc

Some organic produce has a huge carbon footprint. I know of some that use what is called "plastic mulch" to control weeds since they don't use pesticides and then sends tons of plastic each year to the landfill. Organic, but not sustainable.

In Sacramento there are ads on the radio for solar systems with zero down and payments that are lower than current electricity bills. Anybody that is going to stay in their current home can afford that.

And I'm not just speaking to you but to others that don't seem to be doing anything. Again, Al Gore seems to be a horrible example. Makes me have some doubts regarding the message he made so popular.

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Sharonp1953

Oh please.....why so nasty? This does not help. We all have the right to our opinions. Harvey, you are right that solar is available to most, but not within the reach of all. And it is great that you have made the investment. We too have solar and produce all our power and sell some to the grid to repay the money we invested. Momoese is also right and clearly is taking as many steps as he is able to reduce his own carbon footprint. And Harvey, he did say locally-grown organically, not just organic from anywhere.

Personally I don't care if people agree or disagree as long as they take action. The irony is that in most cases over the mid-term personal action also results in personal savings. If we all grew our own organic veggies and took personal responsibility, where it is possible, for power, water collection and recycling, recycling of plastics etc., suitable disposal of waste and a bit more thought about the vehicles we drive and when and where we drive, that alone would make a HUGE difference, and we would save money. And Momoese, Harvey is 100% right that production of meat for human consumption could, if all non-vegetarians ate meat no more than twice a week, and then only organic, grass-fed, the reduction in methane would take care of most of the reductions in carbon needed, and as a bi-product would free up resources to feed most, if not all of the world's poor.
I am a supporter of personal responsibility, I also believe we abuse our planet in ways too numerous to mention. I am ashamed to be Australian based on our current Administration's horrible environmental performance. There is no excuse for our country being responsible for such dreadful pollution, and for exporting that pollution (in the form of coal, coal-seam gas and uranium) to the rest of the world. But, all that said, we do need to work together, fighting and parrying insults will never get us to where we need to be.
Harvey, I am grateful that you do what you can to save money and resources, good on you. I ask that you at least think of what more you can do, because there are reasons other than climate change for stopping heavy pollution from industry, personal behaviour and particularly agricultural production. Air quality, preservation and restoration of green spaces, improvement in the quality and freshness of food by buying local, pesticide-free produce, clean, chemical-free drinking water, and hundreds of other examples of ways in which the quality of your health, your life and that of your personal environment can be improved. Oh, and if we are right about climate change, you will be helping that without even trying. I keep asking the question, what do you have to lose?

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Sharonp1953

Oh,and Harvey, I agree with you on inaccurate recording of weather conditions. Some of that is, I know for an absolute fact, politically motivated. On the day my bananas keeled over and fried, the official temperature here was 36c. The temperature in my own garden, measured on three different instruments was 44.7. Hundreds also reported these temperatures during that day, but all official readings stayed well below 38c. Interesting isn't it? Bottom line, we have to trust our own senses, and certainly check the interests of those we choose to listen to...when someone with links (even hidden links) to a mining magnate or captain of industry exerting huge political pressure, tells me that global warming is a fallacy, I am very worried. But do we always check the history, who they holiday with' who they are "friends with"....... Who pays the ferryman? Nope, but we should!

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harveyc

I don't have any official weather stations within maybe 20 miles of me and the private stations feeding to Wunderground range pretty wildly, to 10F lower and 5F higher than what my own gauge. Hopefully, official stations are calibrated better than all of these cheap electronic gauges.

The bad stations I posted about a couple of years ago or so included a station next to a buildings HVAC system, near a fire station where a fire truck exhaust frequently affected it, etc. There were thousands of such poor stations identified, as I recall.

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