Island Brah

I have a question in regards to something that isn't too clear in the bananas.org wiki section. Who do we address those questions to?

Thanks for the help!

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Growing: Basjoo, Blue Java (The Real One), FHIA-01 American Goldfinger, Manzano, Tall Orinoco, Raja Puri (USDA TARS), Veinte Cohol (USDA TARS), Patupi, & SH-3640 High Noon (USDA TARS)

cincinnana

The Wiki is Self moderated by members...

What are you not clear about?
Possibly some one can help.

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Island Brah

I'm currently using Banana Fuel from Wellspring Gardens (15-5-30). I will be trying out Fruit Fuel (16-8-24) pretty soon to compare the results for myself (if any) and Richard told me that his Fruit Fuel does not need a nitrogen supplement (like advised wiki when using Banana Fuel in the U.S.).

the wiki mentions this:

"Banana Fuel: 15-5-30. Great for the tropics but in the U.S. (esp. the midwest) you'll need Nitrogen supplement."

"Example -- supplementing Banana Fuel with a nitrogen source: Suppose you have Banana Fuel 15-5-30 and wish to increase the amount of nitrogen you are feed your plants with Fish Emulsion, 4-1-1. You would calculate D = (0.30*0.04 - 0.01*0.15) = 0.0105; A = (0.30 - (1.5*0.15)) / 0.0105 = 7.1 lbs per plant per year; B = ((1.5*0.04) - 0.01) / 0.0105 = 4.76 lbs per plant per year."

The example is too advanced for me in figuring out how much Fish Emulsion to add per gallon of Banana Fuel Mix (1 tsp of Banana Fuel per 1 gallon of water - Label recommendation).

So, my question is how much Fish Emulsion should I use as a nitrogen supplement per 1 tsp of Banana Fuel per 1 gallon of water?

Would I mix the Fish Emulsion into the banana Fuel/water mix or apply it differently?

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Growing: Basjoo, Blue Java (The Real One), FHIA-01 American Goldfinger, Manzano, Tall Orinoco, Raja Puri (USDA TARS), Veinte Cohol (USDA TARS), Patupi, & SH-3640 High Noon (USDA TARS)

edwmax

A Banana plant needs 1 lb of nitrogen and 1.5 lb of potash per growing season (aka: year).

If you used 10-10-10 fertilizer, then for 1 lb of nitrogen you would need:
1lb / .10 = 10 lbs of fertilizer.

BUT, 10 lbs of 10-10-10 will only furnish 1 lb of potash (K). ... 10 lb X .10 = 1 lb Therefore, a supplement of potash is needed to furnish additional 1/2 lb of potash (K) for a total of 1 1/2 lbs. ... exam: potassium sulfate (0-0-52) => 1/2 lb / 52% = .96 lbs supplement.

So if the fertilizer is formulated to furnish the TOTAL needs of the plant, a supplement would NOT be required.

That is the basics. So now to your question, Banana Fuel 15-5-30.

5 lbs of Banana Fuel will supply 1.5 lbs of potash (K) ..... 5 lb X .30 = 1.5 lb
BUT, 5 lbs of Banana Fuel will only supply 3/4 lbs of Nitrogen (N) .... 5 lb X .15 = .75 lb Therefore, a supplement of 1/4 lb of nitrogen is needed.

Banana Fuel was designed for the Tropics where the environment furnished the 1/4 lb of Nitrogen by vegetation decay. ... Here in the US unless you use lots of compost with your banana plants then 1/4 lb of nitrogen should be furnished with a nitrogen supplement or a complete fertilizer formulated for growing bananas such as Fruit Fuel (16-8-24) may be used.

Fruit Fuel (16-8-24): 1 lb nitrogen / 16% = 6.25 lb fertilizer
6.25 lbs X 24% = 1.5 lbs potash (K) .... no supplement required for N & K

Knowing how to calculate the N-P-K needs of a plant you can adjust the type fertilizer being used to the plant needs and make fertilizer selection based on availability & cost. ... Using a balanced fertilizer 10-10-10 with minors formulated for gardens & vegetables ($10 / 50 lb bag) and a potassium supplement, I can fertilize my banana plants at a cost of $3 per plant for the season.

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cincinnana

Edwmax......
If it is not clear now, its going to get alittle clearer...LOL

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Island Brah

edwmax, this is awesome and so much easier for me to understand your breakdown for some reason. Thanks so much for helping me - You rock! Cincinnana, no kidding lol.

Okay, so that leads me to a few questions (I know, you're shocked lol) and light bulbs are starting to show signs of life on over my head lol:

1) I now know bananas need 1lb of nitrogen and 1.5lbs of potash per plant per growing season/aka year. My growing season 35 miles northeast of Atlanta is from mid-late April until mid-late October-ish. If I follow the dosage instructions on the Banana Fuel or Fruit Fuel labels, I would never hit the correct amount of nutrients needed in my growing season. For example, if I follow the Fruit fuel label, I'm supposed to use 1 tablespoon/per gallon of water/per month and my growing season is roughly 6 months, I'll never hit the 6.25lbs of Fruit Fuel needed to give it 1lb of nitrogen and 1.5lb of potash. Does the banana plant get the rest of the nutrients from the soil then I'm assuming? If that's the case, how do you really know how much the plant is getting from the soil?

2) Do folks just mix the correct amount (weight) of added supplement into whatever fertilizer they're using if both are water soluble or whatever? Like dump it in the bag and mix it up?


3) Which 10-10-10 fertilizer and potassium supplement do you use? (you knew that one was coming lol).

Thanks again!

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Growing: Basjoo, Blue Java (The Real One), FHIA-01 American Goldfinger, Manzano, Tall Orinoco, Raja Puri (USDA TARS), Veinte Cohol (USDA TARS), Patupi, & SH-3640 High Noon (USDA TARS)

cincinnana

After carefully reading the posts.....what is the adjustment for a four foot banana plant growing off my deck....the previous posts seem way to strong for my new 5 foot plant.

Do you you think we should divide by 3/4 due to the small size of the plant.?


But this might work for my 12 foot basjoos!

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edwmax

First, the states stated nitrogen and potassium amounts in my post are for mature plants. This was correctly stated in the Wiki. Also review the 'Specific Needs of Bananas' in the fertilizer wiki. It gives details for reduced amounts for potted and young plants.

Can you post a copy of the label and the given instructions? ... Are you saying that you apply 1 gallon of mixture per plant per month? if so that is not correct.


You can, but then it is mixed for the bananas. ... Of course the NPK changes, but again that doesn't matter. ... I used the same fertilizer in the garden and for the pecan trees. So I just keep the potassium sulfate separate. It is easier. Monday I gave 1 cup full of potassium sulfate to each mat in my large patch.

I use this fertilizer. The company that makes it, is 3 miles from my house.
This 10-10-10 is formulated for growing tomatoes and vegetable with a acidic base to help the breakdown of the nutrients which tomatoes, vegetable & Bananas love/need. My soil is ph neutral, so the acid is needed. Some fertilizers may be formulated to be alkaline to help in raising the soil ph or to be neutal. Be aware of the difference when buying fertilizers Look at your local fertilizer suppliers and Southern States, their pricing should be better than Walmart's $12/40lb bag.

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Island Brah

This is the instructions from Richard's Fruit Fuel (16-8-24) Guide on Banana Cultivation in Non-Tropical Climates. it says 1 tablespoon per 1 gallon of water every month:



This is the label for Banana Fuel (15-5-30) which says to use 1 tsp per gallon of water every 1-2 weeks:



I'm so darn confused. What do you think?

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Growing: Basjoo, Blue Java (The Real One), FHIA-01 American Goldfinger, Manzano, Tall Orinoco, Raja Puri (USDA TARS), Veinte Cohol (USDA TARS), Patupi, & SH-3640 High Noon (USDA TARS)

edwmax

Thanks for the pics & info. Now look at the comment of the first table. It is stated to 'water normally'. More than 1 gallon of water should be used.

Next, look at the small note below the table in the label photo. It states to double dosage when soil drenching.

OK, there are 2 ways to do the watering. One is to use a hose end sprayer. Mix a stock solution concentrate and then set the spray at proper ratio to make the 2 tablespoon (if monthly) or reduced application as needed while watering. This involves a little math but not hard. Then apply water watching the solution level to know when to stop.

The second way which I suggest and easier, is to mix the ALL fertilizer needed for that application in a 5 gallon bucket. This may be stronger than the 2 TB / gal. Then pour around the plant (not against the stem) and water in with the garden hose to further dilute. Watering once a week may be better to keep the fertilizer concentration to a minimum.

Water is a question for banana plants in the ground. Most general garden guides indicated weekly watering at 1/2" equivalent for rain for plants and area. ... For a 10 ft X 10 ft area around a banana plant, this would be about 31 gallons of water. ... But!!! One of the Banana research reports I read stated a mature banana plant expires as much as 92 liters (24 gallons) per day on hot days. So during droughts or hot dry spells Banana plants needs much more water.

So how much water to give a banana plant? ... that depends ...

OMO ... Fruit fuel is lacking in its instructions for use as a soil drench. It doesn't give upper limits of use that would cause nitrogen root burn or other problems and allow reducing the amount of water needed. Exam: For your 6 mn grow season and watering once a month, you need to apply 1 lb per month at 2 tbl / gallon would be about 32 gallons of water per plant or 1 tbl /gallon would be 64 gallons of water per plant.

Fruit Fuel was formulated for potted plants; injection irrigation; and hydroponic use.

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Island Brah

SO, fertilize each banana plant (or corm) once a month with 5 gallons of fertilizer mix all at once instead of one gallon? And to change the dosage depending on plant size (1/4 dose for small banana plants, 1/2 dose for medium banana plants under 4 ft, and a full monthly dose for 4+ foot)??

Or fertilize each banana plant once every 2 weeks with 5 gallons of 1/2 the recommended monthly dose OR once a week with 5 gallons of 1/4 the recommended monthly dose?

Per labels:

Banana Fuel: Monthly dose is 2 tbs per gallon.

Fruit Fuel: Monthly dose is 1 tbsp per gallon

Sorry for all the questions on this topic but I wish the label told me how many gallons of fertilizer mix to use for each application. The labels lead me to believe to use 1 gallon each time I fertilize because that's the measurement they use.

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Growing: Basjoo, Blue Java (The Real One), FHIA-01 American Goldfinger, Manzano, Tall Orinoco, Raja Puri (USDA TARS), Veinte Cohol (USDA TARS), Patupi, & SH-3640 High Noon (USDA TARS)

edwmax

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edwmax

You are correct about the label dosing.
Banana Fuel => 2 Tbs / gallon / month for soil drench - water normally
Fruit Fuel => 1 TBs /gallon / month

I was mixing label information. The 2 products are near the same and should be interchangeable.

Banana Fuel, 1 lb applied monthly for 6 month growing season as a soil drench (2 TBs/gal) would need 32 gallons of water.

Fruit Fuel, 1 lb applied monthly for 6 month growing season as a soil drench (1 tbs/gal) would need 64 gallons of water. ... Both of these I believe will have a large amount of runoff and wasted fertilizer.

This is why I use granular fertilizer for soil application.

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edwmax

Darn ... this is making my head hurt ...

need to get back to the simple life, grab a handful of fert & toss it out ... toss out more later. If bag is empty, buy more of the cheap stuff. ... and .. if the chickens have been active ... shovel sh't ...

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Island Brah

Fruit Fuel is 1 tbsp per gallon. Banana Fuel is by tsp per label.


Either way it doesn't really matter because I don't feel like dumping 64 gallons of water on each banana plant every growing season. I have 11 banana plants and that would mean I'd potentially need to dump a combined 704 gallons of Fruit Fuel mix on them each growing season!?!? AND like you said, who in the heck knows how much waste that will be with all the runoff....I'd say quite a lot!

I'm pretty sure that settles it unless there is a HUGE point that was missed by edwmax and I. I will start looking into which type of granular fertilizer will work best for my soil.

Edwmax, how often do you need to apply the Graco 10-10-10?

Which potassium supplement do you use with the 10-10-10? I know you're just south of me in Ga but I bet our soil is pretty similar.

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Growing: Basjoo, Blue Java (The Real One), FHIA-01 American Goldfinger, Manzano, Tall Orinoco, Raja Puri (USDA TARS), Veinte Cohol (USDA TARS), Patupi, & SH-3640 High Noon (USDA TARS)

edwmax

That is 704 gallons each month.

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Island Brah

After all the research I've done on this, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this point hahaha

4,224 gallons the whole growing season....hahahaha yeah, I'm not doing that...

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Growing: Basjoo, Blue Java (The Real One), FHIA-01 American Goldfinger, Manzano, Tall Orinoco, Raja Puri (USDA TARS), Veinte Cohol (USDA TARS), Patupi, & SH-3640 High Noon (USDA TARS)

edwmax

The 10-10-10, I apply monthly because it is not a slow release type.

Use Potassium sulfate which is 0-0-50 or 0-0-52. Check the NPK as this may vary from different sources. ... Potassium Chloride is also available, but in time the chloride salt could be a problem. These are available at garden centers in 5 lb bags for $6 to $8. I got my potassium sulfate from Southern States. I carried in a 5 gal bucket and they filled it about 1/2 full. It weighed 24 lbs and they charged me $8.

My fertilizer program is to apply 9 oz (1 cup) of 10-10-10 Plus every month per plant and with 8 oz (1 cup) of Potassium sulfate every 2nd (other) month to the mat.

To this I plan to be testing folar spray as needed if the plant appears distressed and when it starts to flower.

Any of the triples or balanced fertilizers (8-8-8;10-10-10; 15-15-15) will work. Just adjust the quantities applied as needed. Use what is available and gives you the most bang for a buck.

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edwmax

I said my head hurts ... I haven't done a damn thing all day except watch it rain.

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Island Brah

Yeah we had 3 days of it north of you!

How many months is your growing season down there? 7-8?

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Growing: Basjoo, Blue Java (The Real One), FHIA-01 American Goldfinger, Manzano, Tall Orinoco, Raja Puri (USDA TARS), Veinte Cohol (USDA TARS), Patupi, & SH-3640 High Noon (USDA TARS)