mskitty38583

i purchased some fert last night that is called ironite plus. it is a 12 -10- 10. it contains essential secondary and micronutrients in it. also 2 % iron. its total contents are as follows:
n -12 %, phosphate- 10%, potash -10%, sulfur- 9%, boron- .02 %, iron 2. %,manganese .10%, molybdenum .0005% and zinc .10 %. would this be ok to use on my palms and my bop? they need to be fed but i didnt want to miricle- gro them cause of salts. could this also be used on the nanas for the occasional feeding, beside the cabbage and spinach they get? i want to make sure its ok, i dont want to use bad stuff. any help would be appriciated. and thank you!!!!

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inkcube

salts? virtually all fertilizer materials are salts. when they dissolve in the soil they increase the salt concentration of the soil solution. manure actually has the highest salt index among ferts. it will be hard to find a fert without salts.

inkcube

this is from a nutrition lecture i give to my intro to hort class:

to understand salts, one must understand what a salt is. salts are the products, other than water, of the reaction of an acid with a base. the classical concept of acids and bases is the neutralization process of combining a hydrogen ion and a hydroxyl ion to form water, (H+) + (OH-) = H2O.

fertilizer salts are compounds made up of positive and negative ions that may be related only indirectly to acid-base reactions. the positive ions most frequently found in fertilizer salts are the simple metal ions such as K+, Ca++, Mn++ , Mg++, Fe++, Zn++ and the solvated hydrogen ion NH4+. the negative ions can include polyatomic ions such as NO3-, SO4- and PO-4.

when a fertilizer salt such as K2SO4 (potassium sulfate) is applied to the soil, the compound divides into K+ and SO4-. the potassium ion can then be used by plant materials or be attached to clay colloids (particles0, while the sulfate ion stays in the soil solution and moves with water to the roots to be used by plants, or can be leached below the root zone and away from the plant materials. all fertilizer salts react the same way, whether they're potassium chloride (KCl), ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3 or ferrous oxide (FeO). negative ions, such as NO3-, SO4-, and Cl-, all stay in the soil solution and don't attach to the soil colloids.

Salt Buildup

this brings to light the chloride ion (Cl-), which needs some discussion. some feel that chloride ions might add to "salt" buildup in soil. this is false, as the chloride ion doesn't attach to the soil. sulfate of potash adds just as much "salt" to the soil as muriate of potash (potassium chloride).

about 95 percent of all potash used is muriate of potash. all potash fertilizer salts (KCl, KSO4 and KNO3) are soluble in water and are considered readily available. in general, it can be said that there's little difference in their effects on crop production, except in tobacco, where sulfate of potash produces a superior burning-quality leaf.

chlorides are readily leached from soils, thus toxicity is rarely seen. although little is known about chlorine as a plant nutrient, it has been demonstrated that plants grown on soils that contained only 3-5 milliequivalent Cl/100 grams showed severe chlorine deficiency. the symptoms of chlorine deficiency aren't easily identified, but affected plants are said to wilt, become chlorotic and necrotic in some areas, and exhibit leaf bronzing. potassium chloride also has shown fungicidal properties in turf, wheat and other crops.

Salt Index

some horticulturists (those who grow field crops) and turf managers are concerned about the "salt index". the salt index compares the solubility of chemical compounds. most nitrogen and potassium compounds have higher salt indexes, while phosphorus compounds tend to have a lower salt index. salt indexes are the measurement of burn potential and are based on sodium nitrate (an index of 100). the following are some common indexes of standard fertilizer products:

ammonium sulfate 69.0
potassium sulfate 46.1
potassium chloride 116.3
ammonium nitrate 104.7
urea 75.4
calcium nitrate 52.5
manure 115

all of these fertilizers have a burn potential, but none of them will burn if they're applied at the right amount and irrigated in. also, none of these fertilizers add any harmful "salts" to the soil, and they all add good salts that will use to facilitate proper growth.

Adding Nutrients

although fertilizer salts add necessary nutrients to the soil, that doesn't mean that the elements will be available to the plant materials. iron is a good example. iron is taken up by plants as ferrous ions (Fe++). most of the soil iron is unavailable to plants, and deficiencies are common in soils with a high pH. iron deficiency, can be caused by an imbalance of metallic ions such as copper and manganese; excessive amounts of phosphorus; a combination of high pH, high lime, high soil moisture and cool temperatures; and high levels of HCO3- (bicarbonate) in the rooting medium and occasionally manures.

there's a lot to understand about fertilizer salts, but the more you understand, the better you will be able to choose fertilizers for optimum performance.

bencelest

Let me be the first one to thank you Inkcube for a very informational eye opener about fertilizer.

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Randy4ut

Sam,
I cannot speak on what to feed your BOP, but as far as palms go, it is my understanding that it all depends on your soil makeup... Not sure if you are looking for a fertilizer for potted palms or palms in the landscape. For my potted palms, I use the slow release "Dynamite" ferts with micros that you can get at Lowes/HD. For my palms in the yard, I have used triple 13 and added Epsom Salt, and also a "speciality" fert I got while in Florida. I have been working with a local fertilizer mfg. here in town to possibly make me some for me and others in the area and have a specific blend I am wanting them to make. After talking with many palm growers I know, I have come up with a fert analysis for my specific type of soil... If you are interested, let me know and I can send you what info I have on the fert. I am assuming you are more interested in ferts for potted palms, though...
Here is a link to what I use... As long as it is a balanced formula with micros, especially Magnesium.
http://www.dynamiteplantfood.com/flowersvegetables.jsp

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Lagniappe

I think MrsKittys concern is with the build up of salts in indoor container culture .
When the average hobbiest keeps plants indoors they may water untill the soil is saturated but with very little 'flushing' . In other words , the water they add will not allow for leaching of mineral salts . So every time they fertilize more salts are added to the pot .In addition, the salts from the water may be left behind . This may be fine for most plants but not for salt sensitive ones?

If this is wrong please let me know . The problem I have had with finding information is that there are so many schools of thought ,especially on the internet .

Randy4ut

Sorry if I misunderstood the original post. I know she mentioned staying away from "miracle gro" for salts reason, but I just thought it was more of a general fertilizer question... My bad, sorry to take up space....

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mskitty38583

randy your not taking up space! i value all of yall opinions. and i was wanting to know for indoor palms. i have no problem putting my plants in the shower (have done it before) to do a flushing of the soil, i was concerned about the salt build up in the pots. and randy that site was very informative. i use epsome salt in most of the plantings i do outside( my secret mix for fert) but was very unsure about the plants inside. i have used miricle grow on my nanas 2 times since ive had them. it seems that it does ok for them. 1 tbsp per gallon of filtered water.( yes i filter my water for the tropical plants) i am having a problem with the tc basjoo i got a few months ago. so i put it in more direct sunlite and found i had little,tiny, itty, bitty white things crawling on it. so i used some low tox bug spray. which i hate to do. i started noticing brown splotches and yellowing on the leaves, so ive been watching it for 2 days. i thought it needed some calcium....nope that wasnt it. inkcube, so i get this right, are you saying that no matter what kind of fert i get its going to have salts in it. i just dont want to use some thing that is going to harm my palms and bop.i have worked too hard to get them looking this nice. so the fert that i got last nite is it not good for the palms and bop? or should i take it back and get something else? if that is the case ill look and see if they have the dynamite at lowes. thank yall so much for the help.

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inkcube

the fert you bought should be fine.

any fert including cabbages leaves, compost, or coffee grounds will lead to salt. a salt is the product of a chemical reaction. epsom salts are magnesium sulfate (MgSO4·7H2O), a SALT, and should never be put into the pot, as crystals - they will burn roots. also if you water too much with epsom salts you will cause an imbalance of other micro-nutrients in the soil such as iron, manganese, zinc, and copper - i have seen a lot of growers (home & commercial) damage plants using epsom salts too frequently. they compete for the same binding sites in the soil and on the roots - the element in the greatest concentration generally gets all the binding sites. also never mix the epsom salts with your fert or you will negate the benefits of the fert, adding too much Mg which will compete iron, zinc, manganese, and copper deficiencies possibly causing them to "fallout" of solution and not being available to the plant.

for what its worth, calcium deficiencies do not show up often unless you have high alkaline soil - plants take up Ca easily especially in peat-based mixes. if you sprayed any insecticide; natural or man made and subjected the plant to full sun or strong light you will get burning on the leaves. in the greenhouse we spray very early in the morning ~5:00-7:00 am so the chemicals are dry by the time the sun is at its strongest.

too leach your soil pour a volume of water through the pot that is equal to the soil volume of the pot.

mskitty38583

the epsome salts i use in the flower beds is mixed with other things and i only use1 cup of salts. and they are dispursed throughout all of my flower beds.( and thats a lot!) thank yall for your info on this issue with the salts in the pots. when i spray a bug spray, the plant gets moved into the dark and then sprayed. they stay in the dark corner for 24-36 hrs before i put them back into the sun. that way there is no chance for burnt leaves, i learned that the hard way when i first became interested in plants, that seems like forever and two days ago...lol. i appriciate all the help you guys have been.

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Lodewijkp

its more about the soil type , clay contains micro nutrients so some clay in the soil wouldn't hurt .

strong concentrated fertilizers are not very good for most palms, i always use liquid or diluted fertilizer and it gave me better results.

what palms do you have ? washingtonia's are salt tolerant and also tolerate alot of calcium and iron

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mskitty38583

i have a majesty, pony tail and a madagascar dragon tree. plus a white bop.

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buzzwinder

Inkcube, thanks for the great insight into the fert. salts and leaching of soil, with my Bananas and my citrus I've just watered until water came out the bottom of the pot, not really thinking in terms of volume, so again thanks for the insight

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Bill for my friend

jason

I would stay away from any fert,,that has to high of p in it wich is phosphate N P K ,,for palms would be better if it was like 8-4-8 or 8-4-12 with all of the minors in it .phosphate over time in a potted palm will get to high and shut down its ability to use other nutrients that it needs,,your best bet is to order fert,,off the computer that is made just for palms,,,trust me ive learned hard lessons with using fertilizers that were not designed for palms ,and in the winter I never feed my palms inside my house only in the summer or if their outside and growing alot,,manganese,magnesum,pottasium and minor elements are the most important to palms not so much the N and the P.hope this helps-Jason.[http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showp...468&ppuser=883 http://www.bananas.org/gallery/water...&filefix=.jpg]

(credit [http://www.bananas.org/member.php?u=883 jason])

Chironex

Oh great! I just bought a bag of Epsom salt. Anyone want to buy it? lol
Guess I will use it for medicinal purposes, because it isn't going in my banana containers.....

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sandy0225

An old man told me to put epsom salt on my pepper plants, put a circle of it all around the plants. Supposed to increase production.
MsKitty, sounds like you have spider mites on your basjoo. Check any other plants in the locality too. A simple nontoxic insecticidal soap spray on the bottom side of the leaves when the plants aren't in full sun or in the evening or morning, should take care of them in a few applications. It might cause the leaves to look a little funky/ugly for a little while though. Get a good coverage on the leaves to the point of runoff on all the surfaces.

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Northern Tropics Greenhouse
1501 East Fuson Road
Muncie, IN 47302
www.northerntropics.com


specializing in bananas, heirloom tomatoes and water gardening plants~
check out our new online store at our website!

mskitty38583

the one that i was having problems with was a tc. the rest were fine. but yes it was spider mites. that basjoo finally died and we had a proper buriel for it. i use epsome salt in a fert mix i use and it works well for my other plants. i just havent tried it on the bop or my palm. i did mix up some of my mix ( i left out the salts) and used that as an experiment on 3 of my nanas. they are growing very well.

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Gardener972

We have very alkaline, hard clay soil here. I can't decide if it needs calcium or magnesium. What do you all think? Many of my tomatoes this year have blossom end rot but I think that's from a lot of rain we had at one time.... OR could it be a mineral deficiency?

CookieCows

I've always upped the calcium for blossom end rot.

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Dean W.

I thought that was caused by water issues. To much or to little.

Great thread on salts, very informative. The Ironite I heard on another forum contains lead. Anyone heard of this?

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