Patty in Wisc

Wow SBL, thanks for posting that link. I did not know thatfarmers give those antibiotics w/ hormones to all the cows. My farmer friend raised cattle for over 50 years & never gave antibiotics unless they were sick & then they were separated.
I also read couple years ago, that some cattle farmers down south were told to gradually mix corn in the cow poop & mix with the hay that they eat. Then, gradually add more poop as they get used to it - to cut the cost of feeding them. The farmer that wrote of it (on another forum) from I think TX, said he wouldn't do it but some were.
Next time I get horse or cow manure I'm gonna ask about all this. Thanks for this info.

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Patty in Wisc has sadly passed away 9/05/11. We will miss you Patty.

CValentine

Boy is there a rant brewing in me...

What we put in/on the food we grow...conventional or organic...
People worried about all what goes in their food & bodies.

Do you see the junk that most people eat?
What about HFC??? Do we really know what is marketing & truth or not?
Do we care about the production/processing of the food that we eat - in that we avoid all enriched, vitamin added mass-produced items?
Do we really know if we are eating genetically altered plants & what it/if it will do(anything) to us?
Do we REALLY know if we are eating cloned meat or not??
IS IT GOING TO KILL US IF WE DO????
We need to start a health Forum, or you guys need to post the links on all this stuff so the Gov't knows that we know...

Oh...Hold on...they do & they don't care - unless they can make a buck off of it, patent it or start another program.
OR...they're getting a kickback from a manufacturer that can pump so much $$$ into lawsuits to bury the truth.
Marketing, hidden agendas, lies, manipulation....
More needless arguing about menial crap that isn't going to kill us any faster than the fluoride or chemical levels in our water. (Read on that if you want scary.)

Guess what....
No one gets out of life alive. Is the magic of the universe.
I do what I do, you do what you do and they do what they do.
We are all called individuals. We must live & commune together on this planet until it is no more.

Do what you have to do...conventional or organic......just let's get along & agree to disagree, whichever side you choose.
Live & let live & let's get on with taking care of ourselves(in whatever way we deem for ourselves), raising our children & our bananas!!

Rant over...Back to your normally fired-up, arguementative, un-derailed program (thread). ~Cheryl

P.S. - I understand the 'vs.' regarding this thread, which is to encourage the discussion and presentation of the pros/cons of each method...
Would just be nice to see more 'Discussion & Presentation' than 'Bashing & Finger-pointing'

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Richard

Cheryl, you are an epistemologist!

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momoese

What the info in this link doesn't tell you is that it's rBGH (growth hormone) made by Monsanto that makes the cows sick and in need of the antibiotics. Another fact they leave out is that feeding a cow corn it's whole life also makes them sick and in need of antibiotics. You see cows have rumens and can not properly digest corn/grain. They can be safely finished on corn in a feedlot awaiting slaughter, but not for their whole lives. Basically the term we all know from the beef advertising campaigns "Corn Fed" is total BS! Another rather important thing it doesn't mention is that we now have pharmaceuticals in our ground water. Yay!

Good clean organic steer and chicken manure is still available but you may have to make some friends to find it, or make your own.


Here is a facinating true story written my Michael Pollan and published in the NY Times in 2002 called "Power Steer" If your not up to speed on the beef industry it's a real eye opener.

...........Michael Pollan...........

damaclese

I already tried this approach it didn't work
Paulo

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sbl

I don't think the article said that all farmers give antibiotics (w/wo hormones) to all cows, but depending on the needs or the problem they may dose the entire herd as a preventive and/or treatment.

It was yrs ago when I worked at the dairy farm--one thing we did was fog the milking barn with pesticides like DDT or Chlordane to kill the flies (the floor would end up with a solid layer of flies). All of this was pushed out and washed down with the manure at the end of the milking shift. Of course, DDT and Chlordane are no longer used, but I'm sure the fly problem is still there--I don't know what they use now. Pretty much all farm animals need wormers every yr or so, depending on the parasite there are various chemicals that are used--the only one I can think of is pyranyl palmoate--not very toxic, but certainly synthetic.

Again I am not saying don't use manures, but you might want to know a little more about your source.

supermario

To those who feel the thread is getting out of hand...

How else would we learn but through a passionate expression of ideas? It seems some of the most passionate and fiery posts have been left by those who want to believe that convential and organic are indeed polar opposites. I think it's clear that most "chemical" ferts have been given a bad name for no reason. If used properly, they are no more harmful than anything else that we eat. I also feel the "organic" craze is largely overblown. Much like the Atkins diet when it first came out... Why would you think switching rice or pasta for cheese and bacon would be a good thing???

Patty, Richards to the point approach and use of vocabulary can irritate some. I frequently find myself googling words!..However, I really don't think he means any harm.

As stated previously, the purpose of this thread was to state the pro's and cons of each method, and I've seen plenty of that in the close to 150 posts..(although it was actually started as propoganda for some stupid site...but w/e).. Thanks to all for a great discussion!

momoese

I was not condeming the article, it's a good article, just pointing out that there is a reason for the antibiotics in the manure. Of course there are lots of farmers who have chosen not to use the growth hormone but most do feed corn which again leads to antibiotics. You are correct that you have to know the source if you want to avoid it.

Oh and about the worming, we buy organic grass fed bison that has never been wormed. They use Diatomaceous earth on them.

momoese

I couldn't disagree more. Regardless how you feel about the different growing methods you can be assured that there are no GMO's in organic food. That to me is something that I highly value seeing how Monsanto was able to get their way in regards to the lack of GMO labeling in this country.

sbl

I agree Mario, but one thing I have not gotten from this thread is any reason to believe that commercial fertilizers contain anything that is harmful--show me some evidence.

As for buying organic foods at the grocery--that is a different subject--I can understand peoples concerns about commercial pesticides.

CValentine

Good Point made.
Passion is one thing...just the negativity gets overwhelming...it gets deep in here, get out the shovel, ya know?!

Diet...is a whole 'nother Forum... homemade cheese...AND BACON!!! OMG!!!
I used to be a BIG girl, haven't bought pasta in over 2 years...
(Not an Atkin-ite either)
Now making it...
Make your own sausage, grind your own wheat berries, roll out the Atlas...Viola!! Ravioli!
Beats bleached, re-enriched crap ATH!

Back to Whole foods...with your choice of Conventional OR Organic(Soil, Additives or Fertilizer)!

Re-railed!!

Watching with baited breath...and a shovel... ~Cheryl

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supermario

I have to admit that you have opened my eyes to the evils of Monsanto.. It's amazing how much power you can buy with cold hard cash.

As for the craze I'm referring to.. I don't think calling out Monsanto on it's poor business practices falls into that category. I agree with those who are opposed to their actions. The craze I'm referring to are those that imply that organic gardening is the only way and everyone else is destroying the planet. Example: first post in this thread.

Patty in Wisc

That Michael Pollan article sure is a eye opener!! Scary.
I bought some buffalo meat in PA 2 1/2 yrs ago & heard it is s'posed to be healthier for us. I'm thinking it was raised organically - grass fed. Anyone heard of a hamberger joint called Tallgrass? They only use grassfed beef...& I assume called organic - without all the crap injected into them. Little bit of a gamey taste & similar to buffalo, but good.
Somewhere in the article it mentioned premature adolescence (from hormones) in the cows. This is prolly why my neices & young girls are starting to menstrate at only 8-9 years old! Physically a woman but still playing w/ dolls! It's from eating these cows - scary. I was 13 which was normal then.
Makes me not want to eat beef.

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Richard

The "organic lifestyle" craze. A gold mine for advertizers. A prime example of divide-and-conquer-by-fear marketing.

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djmb74

I somewhat agree that most of the organic market is just a marketing gold mine!

On the beef front my family eats mostly Venison and wild turkey and a lot of fish. I have a huge freezer stocked full of it thanks to my wife's step father and his friends hunting trips all over the country. Just got a huge delivery of lobster tails as well thanks to her relatives yearly month long lobster trip to the keys! hehe

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damaclese

Yes what happened to OrganicBananac the Originator of this thread

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sbl

I don't eat beef--for many of the reasons you listed, but for cardiac health as a main reason. My main red meat is venison I harvest from the woods of the SE.

Hormones are used in growing a lot of animals--I do not know a lot about that, but they are also natural. Estrogen is getting into our drinking water from animal and human sources--it survives sewage processing.

But getting back to organic vs conventional fertilizers, can anyone provide any scientific evidence that conventional --even "man-made" fertilizers contain anything that is harmful (other than in the concentrated form or when applied in excess). We are also not talking about the soil compaction and depletion of organic matter--I think we are all in agreement that some organic matter is necessary and I think we are all adding it.

Patty in Wisc

My source for venison is my brother - a great hunter. I make a killer venison chili!
I certainly hope that the man made/conventional ferts are harmless. That would be nice to know.

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Patty in Wisc has sadly passed away 9/05/11. We will miss you Patty.

djmb74

haha I make a great chili as well that the kids love with my ground venison!

sweet vidalia onion marinade soaked Backstrap on the grill for the win though!

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Patty in Wisc

I have my grandma's old meat grinder - the kind you clamp onto a table & crank, so I grind the meat. Make my own It sausage this way too. My uncle lost a whole finger in it. He was pushing the meat in funnel & my aunt was turning the crank. She didn't know his finger caught as she was turning it. OUCH
Backstraps! Oh yum...never heard of them before 2 years ago. Made on the grill - we cut it with a spoon.
Oops, I think I'm derailing, but the person who started this thread isn't around I guess.

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Patty in Wisc has sadly passed away 9/05/11. We will miss you Patty.