Welcome to the Bananas.org forums. You're currently viewing our message boards as a guest which gives you limited access to participate in discussions and access our other features such as our wiki and photo gallery. By joining our community, you'll have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast and simple, so please join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. |
|
Register | Photo Gallery | Classifieds | Wiki | Chat | Map | Today's Posts | Search |
Container Grown Banana Plants This forum is for discussions about growing banana plants in containers. |
Members currently in the chatroom: 0 | |
The most chatters online in one day was 17, 09-06-2009. No one is currently using the chat. |
Email this Page |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools |
10-10-2010, 03:11 PM | #41 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Richard,
Where from God's Green Earth are you getting your figures? Do you know more than Jim Faust, Paul Fisher and Eric Runkle put together? Do you have any idea what PAR is, or DLI? Why would banana plants need twice the amount of light provided by the sun? How do they manage to survive in the wild? Mike |
10-10-2010, 05:58 PM | #42 (permalink) |
un-Retired
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,674
BananaBucks
: 509,211
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times
Was
Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Mike,
I am reporting on what is being done commercially. Fruiting banana cultivars do not occur in the wild. But for comparison, examine the Watts per 4 sq. meters of solar radiation on the earth's surface in the plant spectrum at 0 to 10 degrees latitude in the summer.
__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com |
10-11-2010, 04:35 PM | #43 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
I would guess about 156-280 watts per second on a sunny day when clouds are not blocking any radiation. This is at the equator, where banana trees grow well. Yet you claim you need 2,000W per plant. Do you work for an electric company?
Mike |
10-11-2010, 05:52 PM | #44 (permalink) | |
un-Retired
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,674
BananaBucks
: 509,211
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times
Was
Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Quote:
Growth is not enough. Farmers are trying to fruit these plants in a timely fashion -- 12 months or less brings an acceptable profit margin. The energy inputs used for poinsettias in a greenhouse, tomatoes in tunnels, cucurbitoids in warehouses, and fruiting bananas in orchid shelters are all different. Here in San Diego county, we don't bother with assisted lighting for poinsettias -- in fact we have the opposite problem so we use growth regulators.
__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com |
|
10-11-2010, 08:28 PM | #45 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
A 2000 watt grow light? Got a link to it? And let's see ---- 2000 watts times 8 hours per day is 16,000 watts per day. During winter, 3 months, that amounts to about $144 per plant, if you are paying only 10¢ per kW hour. Add in the rest of the year and you are over $200 to grow a plant, not including labor or other expenses.
Even in Cincy, in the middle of winter, it's not hard to find bananas for about 40¢/lb. So if the wholesale price from the grower is 20¢/lb. that means you need only about 1,000 pounds per plant to break even. So what variety of banana are you growing and what is your average harvest per tree? Mike |
10-11-2010, 09:08 PM | #46 (permalink) |
Location: Central WIsconsin USA
Zone: 5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 162
BananaBucks
: 95,068
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 54 Times
Was
Thanked 123 Times in 57 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Keep this is going it is very interesting to read. thanks guys for all your input...
__________________
|
Said thanks: |
Sponsors |
10-11-2010, 09:17 PM | #47 (permalink) | ||
un-Retired
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,674
BananaBucks
: 509,211
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times
Was
Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
i.e., there are multiple bulbs per plant.
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com |
||
10-12-2010, 04:04 PM | #48 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Hmmmmmmm,
$100 per hand. That's what, $4-5 or more per banana? Mike |
10-12-2010, 05:52 PM | #49 (permalink) | ||
un-Retired
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,674
BananaBucks
: 509,211
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times
Was
Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com |
||
10-12-2010, 06:26 PM | #50 (permalink) | |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Richard,
A commercial running these days urges some: if you find you are digging yourself into a hole, quit digging. I suggest you consider this advice. You try to say that producers who spend $200 on electricity can pay for the entire electrical cost with two hands of fruit. Yet, most dwarf banana plants, at least from what I read, produce 14-16 fruits per hand, I was willing to give you 20. Your post, elucidating everyone on paying for the costs: [quote=Richard;144047]Nope./QUOTE] But you insist on keeping on shoveling. I never brought other costs into the equation but you felt the need to defend your own post I never asked about: Quote:
From the git-go, you have tried to hijack this thread and act like you are an expert. I'm not, and have never claimed to be. But I have studied lighting and growing in a GH extensively, as well as how much light intensity plants needs for optimal growth. Put your digging tool on sale on e-bay and advertise as one that has shoveled tons of crap is just a couple of weeks! Mike |
|
Said thanks: |
Sponsors |
10-12-2010, 07:41 PM | #51 (permalink) |
un-Retired
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,674
BananaBucks
: 509,211
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times
Was
Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Mike,
If you are trying to say that raising bananas indoors for fruit does not make economic sense for the average citizen, then I agree 100%. Of course there are people who are into extremes, such as the hilarious tales chronicled in this book: The 64 Dollar Tomato by W. Alexander. There are also people who have both the desire and the means to grow fruiting tropical plants indoors and obtain production-grade harvests. I have several of them for customers. For example, there is a woman who owns an estate in the northeastern U.S. Among other things, she has two identical size wings on her home: the one on the north houses an Olympic size pool, the one on the south is a terrarium. Inside, she raises citrus, papayas, bananas, grenadilla, etc. Sixty years ago, both the state and private real estate holders in California did not think much of properties with bubbling mudholes, esp. in arid locations. The properties were either "given" to native Americans, or sold off to "gullible" Asian immigrants. It is true that power companies will not pay much for mining rights to harvest power from geothermal wells. However, this does not stop a person from building a micro-power plant with their own funds or a loan -- then powering their own enterprise, or simply leasing the site and power for a Walmart distribution center in the desert.
__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com |
10-12-2010, 09:02 PM | #52 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Richard,
All that you say in your last post may be well and true, but that's NOT what this thread was about. I don't give a flying rat's behind what some lunatic in La-La land will do to get a ripe banana - I am concerned about what the average aficionado of ripe, home-grown banana growers will need to know. Posting BS like needing 2,000 watts of light per plant does a huge disservice, irregardless if you know fools in indulge in wasting money. I'm growing a DC under 125 watts of LED light, in a DWC hydro setup and it is doing fantastic. Will it flower and produce 40 pounds of bananas? I don't have a crystal ball. But I will let you know and then you can tell your baffoon clients they are wasting resources (if it turns out for my good). Mike |
Said thanks: |
10-12-2010, 09:17 PM | #53 (permalink) |
un-Retired
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,674
BananaBucks
: 509,211
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times
Was
Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Mike,
There are many people here who for many years have attempted to grow bananas for fruit wholly indoors. If you were to start a thread on this topic you might get some helpful responses.
__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com |
10-12-2010, 09:30 PM | #54 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
{Smacking head against wall}
WTH do you think this thread started out about? I'll refrain from obvious personal insults that are due, but again will ask that you ditch your shovel and quit digging a deeper hole. Mike |
10-12-2010, 09:45 PM | #55 (permalink) |
un-Retired
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,674
BananaBucks
: 509,211
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times
Was
Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Mike,
It was 800W output in the plant spectrum that I recommended for your super dwarf Cavendish, not 2kW. Given the title of this thread, I'm not sure it is going to reach the audience you have in mind. No need to layoff the personal insults now, you've already contributed many!
__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com |
10-18-2010, 10:46 PM | #56 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Richard,
My DC has been adding a leaf per week. It is getting light from only a 125 watt LED. I suppose, according to you, that if I was to increase the light six-fold, to 800 watts, I should get six new leaves per week? Mike |
10-18-2010, 10:57 PM | #57 (permalink) |
un-Retired
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,674
BananaBucks
: 509,211
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times
Was
Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Congratulations! I look forward to reading about the fruits of your labors.
__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com |
10-19-2010, 03:41 PM | #58 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
|
Said thanks: |
10-19-2010, 04:22 PM | #59 (permalink) |
un-Retired
Location: Vista, CA
Zone: USDA 10b
Name: Richard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,674
BananaBucks
: 509,211
Feedback: 9 / 100%
Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times
Was
Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
The relationship is non-linear and has more to do with fruit production than leaf growth. There are accrued energy levels to be obtained over time for maturation, etc.
__________________
Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com |
10-20-2010, 07:40 PM | #60 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 76
BananaBucks
: 23,701
Feedback: 0 / 0%
Said "Thanks" 0 Times
Was
Thanked 60 Times in 34 Posts
Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times
|
Re: MH Vs. HPS Vs. LED Vs. Fluorescent
Richard,
You continue to ignore the part DLI (the amount of photons a plant uses in photosynthesis) means. Experts, which do not include me, have determined the optimal mols per day needed per plant, though Growing Degree Days (heat) also play an important part. Yes, you may get ten more pounds per plant using 800 watts per hour for 14 hours a day than I will using 125 watts (or 400 if I choose to use MH/HPS) but at what price? There's an easy way to solve this question. You grow a DC under your choice of 800 watt HID lights , I'll grow mine under the 125-watt LED. After a year of growing, we can compare harvested weight. If you harvest six times the salable nanas in weight as I do, then I will concede that Tim Taylor was right and the more power the better. I don't mind if I lose - it means I will have learned something. But at the same time, I'm not worried about trying walking the walk after talking the talk. Are you? Mike |
Said thanks: |
Email this Page |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Indoor bananas 600W HPS, hydroponic media | fergus banana | Container Grown Banana Plants | 42 | 05-28-2012 12:07 PM |
LED vs. HPS | colldp68 | Main Banana Discussion | 11 | 08-11-2009 05:42 PM |
Metal Halide vs. HPS | fergus banana | Container Grown Banana Plants | 11 | 06-08-2009 02:02 PM |
LED grow light (reasonalby priced) | Randy4ut | Main Banana Discussion | 8 | 03-07-2008 11:18 PM |
LED growlights, anybody trying them? | Tropicallvr | Tiki Hut | 6 | 02-07-2008 04:26 PM |