Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness?

Eric-Orlando,FL · 02-03-2011, 05:54 PM

I have noticed Musa sikkimensis seems to have the hardiest leaves to cold here. All other bananas (species and hybrids) have their foliage freeze right at 32-33F, even M. basjoo. But M. sikkimensis seems to take a couple degrees colder before getting damaged. And when it does get damage it is always the first to grow back. From experience here. it always has 3-4 leaves grown back when other bananas are at 1-2 leaves.
We have been down to 29F 3 times this winter and below 32F 6 times. This clump still has green foliage while the others are browned out. Now the location these are growing are in a warmer protected location it still has been about 31-32F there and there are other bananas nearby with dead foliage.

RAINFOREZT · 02-04-2011, 06:59 PM

wikipeida says
Musa sikkimensis, also called Darjeeling Banana is a species of the genus Musa. It is one of the highest altitude banana species[2] and is found in Bhutan and India.

Musa sikkimensis at Heronswood

The above sites says,

This unusual Himalayan banana species is native to regions with heavy annual snowfall and hard frosts. The outsize green foliage grows to 5 feet on stems that can be 18 feet or more. A robust grower, this dazzler's glossy dark green leaves radiate scarlet-red from the underside, with dramatic burgundy streaks on the leaf fronts. In our initial testing, this wondrous rarity has proven just as hardy as M. basjoo, possibly a partial zone hardier. Mulch heavily in zone 6. Give this one a try we'd love to hear your results

RAINFOREZT · 02-04-2011, 07:01 PM

hi eric,
have you tasted it's fruit yet? How is it?

Caloosamusa · 02-07-2011, 09:02 PM

Good evening Eric,

The Musa sikkimensis may be a very good banana for leaf hardiness in marginally warm/cold environments like ours. I grew up about 40 miles NW of your current location and I am intimately with that environment.

Musa itinerans is another very good candidate for the best banana for leaf hardiness. It may be difficult to get the cold data we need for accurate conclusions in a year, but if we continue the data documentation for several years we may get the answers we need.

This year has not been a cold challenging year for data entry on my part but I do very much appreciate the information you have provided to the forum this year. Great picture, Thanks.

Dean W. · 02-10-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAINFOREZT

hi eric,
have you tasted it's fruit yet? How is it?

Hi RAINFOREZT,

I've never tasted the fruit, but they are a seeded banana.

musa_monkey · 02-20-2011, 05:37 AM

I have generally found Helen's Hybrid to be somewhat better at resisting leaf shredding than the pure bred sikkimensis at least on the few of each i have had in the past.

Caloosamusa · 02-20-2011, 07:04 AM

Thanks Musa Monkey,

That wind resistance, or leaf shredding, is an important factor where I grow bananas. Good information!

lwabirds · 02-23-2011, 10:53 AM

I've had my sikkimensis in the ground for 5 years now (Ohio, Zone 6). They are as hardy as the basjoos in my opinion. I've never lost a sikkimensis yet. I have 3 plantings of them.

saltydad · 02-23-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwabirds

I've had my sikkimensis in the ground for 5 years now (Ohio, Zone 6). They are as hardy as the basjoos in my opinion. I've never lost a sikkimensis yet. I have 3 plantings of them.

What protection do you use? My apologies if you've already posted this info.

lwabirds · 02-23-2011, 08:04 PM

I cut them back to 1 foot and place a few bags of straw on them. It's the same method I use for my basjoos. I never lost a plant yet. I have pictures in my gallery.

saltydad · 02-23-2011, 08:18 PM

Same as I did until last year on my basjoos. The past 2 years I just left the fried leaves/p-stems on the ground as mulch. Worked fine last year; hopefully also this one. Would love to leave a sikkim out as a test. I did this with a C. humilis var cerifera palm this winter; it's looking good so far (knock wood).

mrbungalow · 02-28-2011, 04:40 AM

This is interesting reading.

I live in Norway, and it seems Sikkimensis settle in the ground faster, and grow much better at cooler temperatures than Basjoo. But in terms of winter-hardiness basjoo still wins up here. It could be related to the fact that winters here can be very wet. Perhaps sikkimensis needs more dry conditions to get through the winter unharmed. In previous experiments basjoo pseudostems remained much more intact than sikkimensis pseudostems.

Musa sp. "Helen" is in my experience not as hardy as full-blooded sikkimensis or basjoo. But the growth of Musa sp. "helen" is very vigirous.

sandy0225 · 03-15-2011, 07:37 AM

my sikkimensis that I protected like a basjoo didn't make it here winter before last. But I might give one a try planting it a foot deeper this spring.

saltydad · 03-15-2011, 01:42 PM

Sandy- we're all looking forward to the results of your 'deep planting' trials this spring. Good luck!

51st state · 03-17-2011, 04:45 AM

I'd agree with the above. I also believe that Sikkimensis is a much nicer looking plant. My Helen's and interestingly Dhussray have both come through well in the polytunnel, time to start stepping up the water and feed and seeing exactly what has made it through that horrendous winter.

Nice to see you back Erlend.

Alexander · 07-04-2011, 09:16 PM

I have seen Musa sikkimensis in Sikkim in India. It was in springtime and during the afternoon you had often hailshowers! Maybe those thicker leaves are an adaptation to hail.

Alexander

02-03-2011, 05:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
Eric-Orlando,FL Junior Member Eric-Orlando,FL's Photo Gallery Location: Orlando,FL Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 83 BananaBucks : 120,364 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 5 Times Was Thanked 119 Times in 28 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? I have noticed Musa sikkimensis seems to have the hardiest leaves to cold here. All other bananas (species and hybrids) have their foliage freeze right at 32-33F, even M. basjoo. But M. sikkimensis seems to take a couple degrees colder before getting damaged. And when it does get damage it is always the first to grow back. From experience here. it always has 3-4 leaves grown back when other bananas are at 1-2 leaves. We have been down to 29F 3 times this winter and below 32F 6 times. This clump still has green foliage while the others are browned out. Now the location these are growing are in a warmer protected location it still has been about 31-32F there and there are other bananas nearby with dead foliage. __________________ Eric Orlando,FL z9b/10a

02-04-2011, 06:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
RAINFOREZT RAINFOREZT's Photo Gallery Zone: 10 Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 485 BananaBucks : 110,544 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 634 Times Was Thanked 642 Times in 210 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 145 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? wikipeida says Musa sikkimensis, also called Darjeeling Banana is a species of the genus Musa. It is one of the highest altitude banana species[2] and is found in Bhutan and India. Musa sikkimensis at Heronswood The above sites says, This unusual Himalayan banana species is native to regions with heavy annual snowfall and hard frosts. The outsize green foliage grows to 5 feet on stems that can be 18 feet or more. A robust grower, this dazzler's glossy dark green leaves radiate scarlet-red from the underside, with dramatic burgundy streaks on the leaf fronts. In our initial testing, this wondrous rarity has proven just as hardy as M. basjoo, possibly a partial zone hardier. Mulch heavily in zone 6. Give this one a try we'd love to hear your results

02-04-2011, 07:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
RAINFOREZT RAINFOREZT's Photo Gallery Zone: 10 Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 485 BananaBucks : 110,544 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 634 Times Was Thanked 642 Times in 210 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 145 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? hi eric, have you tasted it's fruit yet? How is it?

02-07-2011, 09:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
Caloosamusa Caloosamusa's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,578 BananaBucks : 31,095 Feedback: 1 / 67% Said "Thanks" 3,829 Times Was Thanked 1,556 Times in 675 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 334 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? Good evening Eric, The Musa sikkimensis may be a very good banana for leaf hardiness in marginally warm/cold environments like ours. I grew up about 40 miles NW of your current location and I am intimately with that environment. Musa itinerans is another very good candidate for the best banana for leaf hardiness. It may be difficult to get the cold data we need for accurate conclusions in a year, but if we continue the data documentation for several years we may get the answers we need. This year has not been a cold challenging year for data entry on my part but I do very much appreciate the information you have provided to the forum this year. Great picture, Thanks. Last edited by Caloosamusa : 02-07-2011 at 09:04 PM. Reason: add

02-20-2011, 05:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
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02-20-2011, 07:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
Caloosamusa Caloosamusa's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,578 BananaBucks : 31,095 Feedback: 1 / 67% Said "Thanks" 3,829 Times Was Thanked 1,556 Times in 675 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 334 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? Thanks Musa Monkey, That wind resistance, or leaf shredding, is an important factor where I grow bananas. Good information!

02-23-2011, 10:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
lwabirds Junior Member lwabirds's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 136 BananaBucks : 119,476 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 68 Times in 23 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? I've had my sikkimensis in the ground for 5 years now (Ohio, Zone 6). They are as hardy as the basjoos in my opinion. I've never lost a sikkimensis yet. I have 3 plantings of them. __________________ May you be in heaven a half an hour before the devil knows you're dead

02-23-2011, 08:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
lwabirds Junior Member lwabirds's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 136 BananaBucks : 119,476 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 68 Times in 23 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? I cut them back to 1 foot and place a few bags of straw on them. It's the same method I use for my basjoos. I never lost a plant yet. I have pictures in my gallery. __________________ May you be in heaven a half an hour before the devil knows you're dead

02-23-2011, 08:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
saltydad saltydad's Photo Gallery Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA Find me on the map! Zone: 7a Name: Howard Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,552 BananaBucks : 258,237 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 14,712 Times Was Thanked 4,662 Times in 1,778 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 824 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? Same as I did until last year on my basjoos. The past 2 years I just left the fried leaves/p-stems on the ground as mulch. Worked fine last year; hopefully also this one. Would love to leave a sikkim out as a test. I did this with a C. humilis var cerifera palm this winter; it's looking good so far (knock wood). __________________ Men In Nursing- "A Few Good Men" "Gardening is the purest of human pleasures." - Francis Bacon "If by a liberal, they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind; someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions; someone who cares about the welfare of the people, their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, their civil liberties; someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicion that grips us; that is what they meant by a liberal, I am proud to be a liberal." John F. Kennedy, September, 1960 http://flickr.com/photos/saltydad/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/saltydad http://s751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/saltydad/

02-28-2011, 04:40 AM	#12 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 598 BananaBucks : 113,225 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 14 Times Was Thanked 165 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? This is interesting reading. I live in Norway, and it seems Sikkimensis settle in the ground faster, and grow much better at cooler temperatures than Basjoo. But in terms of winter-hardiness basjoo still wins up here. It could be related to the fact that winters here can be very wet. Perhaps sikkimensis needs more dry conditions to get through the winter unharmed. In previous experiments basjoo pseudostems remained much more intact than sikkimensis pseudostems. Musa sp. "Helen" is in my experience not as hardy as full-blooded sikkimensis or basjoo. But the growth of Musa sp. "helen" is very vigirous. __________________

03-15-2011, 07:37 AM	#13 (permalink)
sandy0225 Northern Tropics sandy0225's Photo Gallery Location: Muncie, Indiana zone 5 Find me on the map! Zone: zone 5 Name: Sandy Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,718 BananaBucks : 438,882 Feedback: 31 / 97% Said "Thanks" 38 Times Was Thanked 1,801 Times in 682 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 9 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? my sikkimensis that I protected like a basjoo didn't make it here winter before last. But I might give one a try planting it a foot deeper this spring. __________________ Sandy Burrell Northern Tropics Greenhouse 1501 East Fuson Road Muncie, IN 47302 www.northerntropics.com specializing in bananas, heirloom tomatoes and water gardening plants~ check out our new online store at our website!

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saltydad saltydad's Photo Gallery Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA Find me on the map! Zone: 7a Name: Howard Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,552 BananaBucks : 258,237 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 14,712 Times Was Thanked 4,662 Times in 1,778 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 824 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? Sandy- we're all looking forward to the results of your 'deep planting' trials this spring. Good luck! __________________ Men In Nursing- "A Few Good Men" "Gardening is the purest of human pleasures." - Francis Bacon "If by a liberal, they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind; someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions; someone who cares about the welfare of the people, their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, their civil liberties; someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicion that grips us; that is what they meant by a liberal, I am proud to be a liberal." John F. Kennedy, September, 1960 http://flickr.com/photos/saltydad/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/saltydad http://s751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/saltydad/

03-17-2011, 04:45 AM	#15 (permalink)
51st state many 'naners, little time 51st state's Photo Gallery Location: salisbury, UK Find me on the map! Zone: 8b ish Name: Kev Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 465 BananaBucks : 366,903 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 202 Times Was Thanked 259 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? I'd agree with the above. I also believe that Sikkimensis is a much nicer looking plant. My Helen's and interestingly Dhussray have both come through well in the polytunnel, time to start stepping up the water and feed and seeing exactly what has made it through that horrendous winter. Nice to see you back Erlend. __________________ a>

07-04-2011, 09:16 PM	#16 (permalink)
Alexander Find me on the map! Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 25 BananaBucks : 4,864 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa sikkimensis-the best banana for leaf hardiness? I have seen Musa sikkimensis in Sikkim in India. It was in springtime and during the afternoon you had often hailshowers! Maybe those thicker leaves are an adaptation to hail. Alexander

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