Greenhouse leveling question

blownz281 · 09-09-2012, 01:23 PM

In the next few weeks we are getting a 6ft*8ft GH from Habor Freight. We have sandy soil here so I was wondering if I would have to worry about the greenhouse sinking at all? I'm going to place it on 4*4's and bolt it down. Should I rough the area/grass up where its going and lay down gravel? I can't cement anything down as this is a rent to own house. So if for some reason we didn't stay here the landlord would not be thrilled it being cemented down in the yard.

My parents have a expensive one and larger sized one. My Dad put the 4 wooden posts in the ground and cemented them in. Then made a foundation with 4*4's on top of that then laid gravel.

All the rain we have been getting this year the area we plan to put it has not sunk at all,but it has no weigh on it as well. Also no water sits in this area with all the rainy weather we have had. Thanks

sunfish · 09-09-2012, 03:57 PM

You can lay down some brick or pavers in each corner leave about 2" above grade and place 4x4's on top.Keeps the wood out of the dirt. Go get 4 concrete form stakes, the metal ones , drive them in the ground and screw into 4x4's .

Bob3 · 09-09-2012, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunfish

You can lay down some brick or pavers in each corner leave about 2" above grade and place 4x4's on top.Keeps the wood out of the dirt. Go get 4 concrete form stakes, the metal ones , drive them in the ground and screw into 4x4's .

Yep, be sure to pin the critter down to the ground securely; maybe even use some screw-in anchors if the soil is otherwise on the spongy side when soaked.
It gets real embarrassing (not to mention messy) when somebody's greenhouse or shed winds up "switching yards".

blownz281 · 09-09-2012, 05:08 PM

Yeah guys I will have to anchor it down one way or another

Olafhenny · 09-09-2012, 06:39 PM

How you do it, depends partly on how long that installation is supposed to last. If you are leaving
home within the next ten years, you might get away with just driving 4 or 6 2x4s in to the ground
18 inches deep and screw or nail your bottom frame to those posts. Of course all lumber you
use for this purpose should be pressure treated.

Placing your lumber on pavers is not a good idea, unless they are clay bricks. Most pavers
today are concrete and concrete in direct contact is poisonous for wood, because it attracts
moisture and maintains it even while everything around it is dry.

If you have a car port or one of your neighbours has one, look at the bases of the posts. You will
see, that they are not set directly into the concrete, but nailed/screwed into galvanized steel
brackets, which are in turn set into the concrete.

Here is how you build a ‘Cadillac’ base, which will cost you only between 20 and 30 bucks more
than the ‘slip shot’ solution, which I have described above:

- Dig a hole in each corner 1 foot deep. It need not be more than 8 inches in diameter, but
should, if anything, flare out at the bottom.

- Fill these holes up with concrete and insert a bracket into each concrete filled hole. This
is, where the whole quality of the job is decided. The brackets should not only be square to the
frame, touching with bottom of their base plates the concrete, but also all be exactly the same
height. For that it is helpful to pound a hub (small stake) near each corner, after you have dug the
holes marked for elevation, from which you can easily measure down to establish the top of the
concrete. But before you pour the concrete, you should make sure, that there is no loose soil in
the holes. – Well, a little bit is unavoidable, but basically the pour should be against undisturbed
native soil.

You can find illustrations of the brackets I am talking about here:
Concrete Fence Post Metal Anchor Sales, Buy Concrete Fence Post Metal Anchor Products from alibaba.com

Chose the one on the bottom left, if you plan to bolt the 6’ cross on top of the 8’ stringer or one
of the two beside it, if you want your frame to be flush. In that case you may want to consider
using two 2 x fours bolted together instead of one 4 x 4. That would allow you to fashion an
overlap joint at the corners.

You can be sure to find these brackets at your local building supply store for about a couple of bucks
each. For concrete I would recommend bagged ready mix. One bag will probably not be quite
enough and with two, you will have some left over.

Good luck, I have tried to go into quite a bit of detail, but if I left something out, then feel free to
ask.
Olaf

blownz281 · 09-09-2012, 07:40 PM

Wow thanks,okay I will let you guys know what I end up doing.

Bob3 · 09-09-2012, 08:00 PM

Whichever way you go, you may want to look into "temporary" vs "permanent" definitions for your location; "permanent" installations can be taxable & become part of the property, not being able to be taken along if/when you should move.
"Temporary" installations may not be subject to property taxes & may be taken with you if you should move.

Just something to think about.

blownz281 · 09-09-2012, 08:16 PM

Yeah,the Landlords daughter leaves next door! If we do leave I don't care the greenhouse and all my plants are coming with us,with or without the deposit. Nothing we did can't be changed around. The yard looks a million times better!

cincinnana · 09-10-2012, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blownz281

Yeah guys I will have to anchor it down one way or another

When I had mine I used 6x6's as the frame base and pinned it to the ground with 1 inch rebar..... pounded about 18 inches in ,three each side with about 6 inches above the wood. I used wood chips as the floor.
4x4's might twist and bend the thin aluminium frame.
Sounds like a good project.
Don't forget to use your coupon for 20% off.

Good luck

blownz281 · 09-11-2012, 08:57 PM

I was thinking about the rebar myself. On youtube people said they used 4*4's. But no idea down the road how that worked,they were also in cold climates. I will use burlap or gravel for the floor. Wood chips will bring in cockroaches. Thanks,I'm looking forward to it,yes I have my coupon.

Abnshrek · 09-11-2012, 10:20 PM

IS there anyone with old / used, but in good shape RR timbers to use for the base?
If so put a wanted ad on craigslist wouldn't hurt.. :^)

blownz281 · 09-12-2012, 05:41 PM

Yes that's a thought

G.W. · 09-13-2012, 08:55 AM

pour a "foot" on your posts

drive a couple galvy nails half way into the bottom 8 inches of your posts

set post in 5gal bucket (plant containers work well too)

pour 1 bag concrete mix into each

if you grease the inside of the bucket and insert a trash bag then you can even reuse your form

the same can be done with any size or shape "Foot" you want to pour

when you want to move the concrete can be removed with a couple whacks from a hammer

Olafhenny · 09-13-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.W.

when you want to move the concrete can be removed with a couple whacks from a hammer

You are kidding, aren't you? If I could do that, I would sue the concrete manufacturer.

G.W. · 09-13-2012, 09:47 AM

I've removed 200ft of sidewalk with a 20lb sledge.
Removing concrete from a wood post is easy because the wood penetration causes a doughnut effect further weakening the concrete against shock.

The corners of the square post are thinnest and that is where you should aim.

Scuba_Dave · 09-13-2012, 10:33 AM

I've also removed concrete from 4x4's with a sledge, it does tend to break off the post fairly easily
PT 4x4's will tend to twist/warp some, the 6x6's are much better

G.W. · 09-13-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave

the 6x6's are much better

werd
6x6's FTW !!

seriously though
I don't think anything is sinking, but wind is very unpredictable.
Anchor it somehow to prevent damage to property, and your greenhouse, and wallet.

Olafhenny · 09-13-2012, 12:15 PM

Years ago there was some junk on the market called something like 'post hole concrete' or 'fence post
concrete'. But that is no longer sold here, probably because some people used it where they shouldn't
have and got into trouble.

If concrete was as fragile/soft as you guys describe it, all the concrete structures on this planet
would have collapsed, long before construction was even finished.

If 'Blown' has railroad ties or 6 x6es readily available, by all means use them, but as base of a light
weight aluminum structure it is overkill, if you have to buy them.

Scuba_Dave · 09-13-2012, 01:28 PM

Concrete is not fragile, but a 10+ lb sledge hitting it on the side breaks it off without a problem
Its not a matter of being soft, it wasn't designed to stand up to being hit with a sledge hammer

G.W. · 09-13-2012, 02:09 PM

The brittle and low tensile strength properties of unreinforced concrete cannot be denied.

Doubtless many concrete structures did collapse during construction before the nature of the material was fully understood.
They would continue today, and at a higher rate , were it not for the incorporation of steel and other polymers.

09-09-2012, 01:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
blownz281 Location: Coastal NC Find me on the map! Zone: 8b coastal Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,373 BananaBucks : 509,401 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 440 Times Was Thanked 756 Times in 534 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Greenhouse leveling question In the next few weeks we are getting a 6ft8ft GH from Habor Freight. We have sandy soil here so I was wondering if I would have to worry about the greenhouse sinking at all? I'm going to place it on 44's and bolt it down. Should I rough the area/grass up where its going and lay down gravel? I can't cement anything down as this is a rent to own house. So if for some reason we didn't stay here the landlord would not be thrilled it being cemented down in the yard. My parents have a expensive one and larger sized one. My Dad put the 4 wooden posts in the ground and cemented them in. Then made a foundation with 4*4's on top of that then laid gravel. All the rain we have been getting this year the area we plan to put it has not sunk at all,but it has no weigh on it as well. Also no water sits in this area with all the rainy weather we have had. Thanks

09-09-2012, 03:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,634,509 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,594 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question You can lay down some brick or pavers in each corner leave about 2" above grade and place 4x4's on top.Keeps the wood out of the dirt. Go get 4 concrete form stakes, the metal ones , drive them in the ground and screw into 4x4's .

09-09-2012, 05:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
blownz281 Location: Coastal NC Find me on the map! Zone: 8b coastal Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,373 BananaBucks : 509,401 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 440 Times Was Thanked 756 Times in 534 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question Yeah guys I will have to anchor it down one way or another

09-09-2012, 06:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 297,528 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question How you do it, depends partly on how long that installation is supposed to last. If you are leaving home within the next ten years, you might get away with just driving 4 or 6 2x4s in to the ground 18 inches deep and screw or nail your bottom frame to those posts. Of course all lumber you use for this purpose should be pressure treated. Placing your lumber on pavers is not a good idea, unless they are clay bricks. Most pavers today are concrete and concrete in direct contact is poisonous for wood, because it attracts moisture and maintains it even while everything around it is dry. If you have a car port or one of your neighbours has one, look at the bases of the posts. You will see, that they are not set directly into the concrete, but nailed/screwed into galvanized steel brackets, which are in turn set into the concrete. Here is how you build a ‘Cadillac’ base, which will cost you only between 20 and 30 bucks more than the ‘slip shot’ solution, which I have described above: - Dig a hole in each corner 1 foot deep. It need not be more than 8 inches in diameter, but should, if anything, flare out at the bottom. - Fill these holes up with concrete and insert a bracket into each concrete filled hole. This is, where the whole quality of the job is decided. The brackets should not only be square to the frame, touching with bottom of their base plates the concrete, but also all be exactly the same height. For that it is helpful to pound a hub (small stake) near each corner, after you have dug the holes marked for elevation, from which you can easily measure down to establish the top of the concrete. But before you pour the concrete, you should make sure, that there is no loose soil in the holes. – Well, a little bit is unavoidable, but basically the pour should be against undisturbed native soil. You can find illustrations of the brackets I am talking about here: Concrete Fence Post Metal Anchor Sales, Buy Concrete Fence Post Metal Anchor Products from alibaba.com Chose the one on the bottom left, if you plan to bolt the 6’ cross on top of the 8’ stringer or one of the two beside it, if you want your frame to be flush. In that case you may want to consider using two 2 x fours bolted together instead of one 4 x 4. That would allow you to fashion an overlap joint at the corners. You can be sure to find these brackets at your local building supply store for about a couple of bucks each. For concrete I would recommend bagged ready mix. One bag will probably not be quite enough and with two, you will have some left over. Good luck, I have tried to go into quite a bit of detail, but if I left something out, then feel free to ask. Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

09-09-2012, 07:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
blownz281 Location: Coastal NC Find me on the map! Zone: 8b coastal Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,373 BananaBucks : 509,401 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 440 Times Was Thanked 756 Times in 534 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question Wow thanks,okay I will let you guys know what I end up doing.

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09-09-2012, 08:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bob3 Bob3's Photo Gallery Location: Sacramento, Luxemburg Find me on the map! Zone: 9 & Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 466 BananaBucks : 59,054 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 128 Times Was Thanked 513 Times in 265 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 97 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question Whichever way you go, you may want to look into "temporary" vs "permanent" definitions for your location; "permanent" installations can be taxable & become part of the property, not being able to be taken along if/when you should move. "Temporary" installations may not be subject to property taxes & may be taken with you if you should move. Just something to think about. __________________ Recipes & links for Cajun, Creole, & other goodies.

09-09-2012, 08:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
blownz281 Location: Coastal NC Find me on the map! Zone: 8b coastal Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,373 BananaBucks : 509,401 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 440 Times Was Thanked 756 Times in 534 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question Yeah,the Landlords daughter leaves next door! If we do leave I don't care the greenhouse and all my plants are coming with us,with or without the deposit. Nothing we did can't be changed around. The yard looks a million times better!

09-11-2012, 08:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
blownz281 Location: Coastal NC Find me on the map! Zone: 8b coastal Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,373 BananaBucks : 509,401 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 440 Times Was Thanked 756 Times in 534 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question I was thinking about the rebar myself. On youtube people said they used 4*4's. But no idea down the road how that worked,they were also in cold climates. I will use burlap or gravel for the floor. Wood chips will bring in cockroaches. Thanks,I'm looking forward to it,yes I have my coupon.

09-11-2012, 10:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
Abnshrek Happy Growing Abnshrek's Photo Gallery Location: Beaumont Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b, but 9b weather.. Name: Migael / Michael Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9,493 BananaBucks : 349,044 Feedback: 45 / 100% Said "Thanks" 10,447 Times Was Thanked 16,444 Times in 5,239 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,318 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question IS there anyone with old / used, but in good shape RR timbers to use for the base? If so put a wanted ad on craigslist wouldn't hurt.. :^) __________________ I'm a Nannerhead :^) Last edited by Abnshrek : 09-11-2012 at 10:25 PM.

09-12-2012, 05:41 PM	#12 (permalink)
blownz281 Location: Coastal NC Find me on the map! Zone: 8b coastal Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,373 BananaBucks : 509,401 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 440 Times Was Thanked 756 Times in 534 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question Yes that's a thought

09-13-2012, 08:55 AM	#13 (permalink)
G.W. Aspiring BUY LOCAL farmer Location: between flag leaves 34772 Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 289 BananaBucks : 22,647 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 43 Times Was Thanked 261 Times in 144 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question pour a "foot" on your posts drive a couple galvy nails half way into the bottom 8 inches of your posts set post in 5gal bucket (plant containers work well too) pour 1 bag concrete mix into each if you grease the inside of the bucket and insert a trash bag then you can even reuse your form the same can be done with any size or shape "Foot" you want to pour when you want to move the concrete can be removed with a couple whacks from a hammer __________________ winter winners, jackfruit, carambola, hua moa, d namwah, hak ip lychee with pink leaves 2 days before a cold snap eeeek! Winter losers, kohala longan, misi luki, 80% jackfruit seedling loss first bloomers, HUA MOA, DC, D NAMWAH, FHIA 17, KANADARIAN, RAJA PURI, M D NAMWAH best bunch FHIA 17 , undisclosed WORST BUNCH hua moa, 2 fingers

09-13-2012, 09:47 AM	#15 (permalink)
G.W. Aspiring BUY LOCAL farmer Location: between flag leaves 34772 Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 289 BananaBucks : 22,647 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 43 Times Was Thanked 261 Times in 144 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question I've removed 200ft of sidewalk with a 20lb sledge. Removing concrete from a wood post is easy because the wood penetration causes a doughnut effect further weakening the concrete against shock. The corners of the square post are thinnest and that is where you should aim. __________________ winter winners, jackfruit, carambola, hua moa, d namwah, hak ip lychee with pink leaves 2 days before a cold snap eeeek! Winter losers, kohala longan, misi luki, 80% jackfruit seedling loss first bloomers, HUA MOA, DC, D NAMWAH, FHIA 17, KANADARIAN, RAJA PURI, M D NAMWAH best bunch FHIA 17 , undisclosed WORST BUNCH hua moa, 2 fingers

09-13-2012, 10:33 AM	#16 (permalink)
Scuba_Dave Location: South of Boston, MA Find me on the map! Zone: 6-7 Name: Dave Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 732 BananaBucks : 101,471 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 501 Times Was Thanked 1,218 Times in 451 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,414 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question I've also removed concrete from 4x4's with a sledge, it does tend to break off the post fairly easily PT 4x4's will tend to twist/warp some, the 6x6's are much better

09-13-2012, 12:15 PM	#18 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 297,528 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question Years ago there was some junk on the market called something like 'post hole concrete' or 'fence post concrete'. But that is no longer sold here, probably because some people used it where they shouldn't have and got into trouble. If concrete was as fragile/soft as you guys describe it, all the concrete structures on this planet would have collapsed, long before construction was even finished. If 'Blown' has railroad ties or 6 x6es readily available, by all means use them, but as base of a light weight aluminum structure it is overkill, if you have to buy them. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

09-13-2012, 01:28 PM	#19 (permalink)
Scuba_Dave Location: South of Boston, MA Find me on the map! Zone: 6-7 Name: Dave Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 732 BananaBucks : 101,471 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 501 Times Was Thanked 1,218 Times in 451 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,414 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question Concrete is not fragile, but a 10+ lb sledge hitting it on the side breaks it off without a problem Its not a matter of being soft, it wasn't designed to stand up to being hit with a sledge hammer

09-13-2012, 02:09 PM	#20 (permalink)
G.W. Aspiring BUY LOCAL farmer Location: between flag leaves 34772 Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 289 BananaBucks : 22,647 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 43 Times Was Thanked 261 Times in 144 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times	Re: Greenhouse leveling question The brittle and low tensile strength properties of unreinforced concrete cannot be denied. Doubtless many concrete structures did collapse during construction before the nature of the material was fully understood. They would continue today, and at a higher rate , were it not for the incorporation of steel and other polymers. __________________ winter winners, jackfruit, carambola, hua moa, d namwah, hak ip lychee with pink leaves 2 days before a cold snap eeeek! Winter losers, kohala longan, misi luki, 80% jackfruit seedling loss first bloomers, HUA MOA, DC, D NAMWAH, FHIA 17, KANADARIAN, RAJA PURI, M D NAMWAH best bunch FHIA 17 , undisclosed WORST BUNCH hua moa, 2 fingers

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