jwmahloch

Is anyone else growing palm trees and sucessfully overwintering outside in Missouri? I have had sucess overwintering 2 Trachycarpus fortunei (windmill palms) last winter. The one in the attached picture was a 1 gal plant and was planted in June 2008. I also planted a Washingtonia palm (California fan palm) in April 2009. It was a 7 gallon tree when I bought it and has grown to over 6 feet tall now. The windmill palm is growing much slower.
I plan on wrapping the trucks with pipe heating cables and burlap and enclosing in a leaf cage.

Does anyone have any tips on overwintering a washingtonia palm (CA fan palm) in USDA zone 6/7?

Jeremy
St Peters, MO

Attached Images

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	102309-3.JPG (1.87 MB, 40 views)

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Jeremy

Abnshrek

Just to let you know the Ca palm will grow like crazy and spread. I hope it's still not that close to your home.. The heat tapes for the Ca Palm; the windmill will survive without the heaters. You could get a couple pindo's / jelly palms they are more hardy than the Ca Palms. and grow faster than the windmill. Food for thought. I'm using heat tapes to preserve my p-stems this winter. Good Luck :^)

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jwmahloch

Thats a good idea to use the heat cables to wrap your p-stems (I might try that), I would need alot of cables to wrap all my p-stems since I have 6 banana clups, some of them have up to 8 plants growing in the clump. I did not use the heat cables on my windmill palms last winter, I just used the leaf cage so I probably dont even need them. I do plan on using the heat cable on my CA Fan palm. I planted it in April and its about 3 feet from the foundation of my house. Is that a problem? I planted it on the south side of my house close to the foundation on purpose because it stays warmer there and the ground doesnt freeze within 3 feet of my house. I have noticed that the CA fan palm is growing 5 times faster than the windmill palms (putting out a new leaf every couple weeks in the summer). I also have another CA fan palm that I bought at the same time as the other one that is in my greenhouse. Its up to the ceiling of my greenhouse (about 7feet) so in the spring I plan on planting it in the ground in my back yard. Am I better off planting it farther away from the house? In the summer I had it in a 30 gal pot on my patio on the east side of my house about 10 feet away from the house and it did really well. it was protected from wind there. So I am planning on planting it in the ground close to where I had it in the pot last summer. -- Jeremy

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Jeremy

Kent M

I live in Shiloh, IL and planted two small windmill palms in the summer of 2009. One is on the south side of the house, the other on the east. The one on the south is not growing. The other one is growing very slowly. I wish it could grow faster. The only winter protection I use are wire cages lined with white plastic sheet material and filled with multch and dried leaves. Can the windmills ever survive the winter without protection in Zone 6b?

TommyMacLuckie

Windmills generally grow slow - quite slow (in fact, the growth rate of a windmill is almost equal to a Canary Island date palm - sloooowwwww). They would rather have cooler temps than hot temps (they are native to the Himalayas). They do great in New Orleans/SE Louisiana and all through the Gulf Coast and up in those states) but you get down to Tampa and you'll be hard pressed to find any - it's too warm. Their cold hardiness is into the single digits but only for a short amount of time.

Butia is quite cold hardy, into the low teens, another slow grower, but three of the most cold hardy palms you can get are

Mediterranean Fan Palm (Chamaerops humilis) 5-15F (if you can find a silver Med Fan they grow a little faster),

Needle Palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix), a native palm to the Gulf Coast, hardy to -5F but they are also incredibly slow growing, and

Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens), a native palm to the Gulf Coast, hardy to 10-15F and also the silvers grow faster than the green.

You could try a Cabbage palm (Sabal palmetto), another native palm to the Gulf and East Coasts, if you can find one, they're quite heavy but you may be more likely to find a baby one at a nursery somewhere (Lowes and HD has 'em). They're hardy into the low teens, as well as Sabal minor (Sabal minor), a native to the Gulf Coast, which are hardy to the mid teens and will most likely come back from a bad freeze (you could always cut the whole thing down, mulch it heavily, and it will pop back up. They get mowed over all the time and pop back up).

Washingtonia filifera, the most cold hardy of the two Washingtonias, will grow slower than they do in Louisiana just as they grow slower in Louisiana compared to southern FLA and CA - they like it warm all the time, the ground especially. For you it will appear to grow fast! You most likely will get good growth in the summer due to the ground being warm, not necessarily the air - although it is part of it, so if you fertilize it correctly you should get results. However, the taller it gets the more likely it is to get damaged in a freeze at some point. That's something you'll just have to accept. They can tolerate temps below that number and come back but where you are, in the lower Midwest, it might get too cold for too long.

jwmahloch

You should try needle palms instead of windmill palms. I am growing 4 needle palms that stay outside all year and they look great. 2 of them flowered in April. They can handle the cold much better. Make sure you plant them in a sunny spot that is protected from the wind. Its also very important to plant in a raised bed with well drained soil. so remove about 2/3 of the native soil (which in st louis is clay) and add planting mix. I have found that the stay green brand of flower and vegetable soil works well (Lowes sells it). also adding some sand to the soil helps.

One more thing thats very important, plant 5 gallon size or bigger. larger palms will establish quicker. Good luck.

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Jeremy

Kent M

I thought about needle palms, but went with the windmills because they have a trunk and grow taller. Do your needle palms require any winter protection, even when young? Also are the needle palms as slow growing as the windmills? Is there anyone selling needle palms in the St. Louis area? I live in Shiloh, IL in the Metro-east.

jwmahloch

I found some 5 gallon needle palms at home depot last spring. they havent got any in yet, not sure if they will get them. There are some mail order nurseries that sell them online and on ebay. but the ones are ebay are very small and I wouldnt recommend buying those. Needle palms do grow very slow which is a good thing because that makes them easier to protect in the winter. I would say the needle palm is 10 degrees more cold tolerant than the windmill palm. Also needle palms seem to do better in our soil in St Louis.

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Jeremy

Westwood

Im growing some in Oregon and started many from seed some took some never did .

TommyMacLuckie

Needle palms, the most cold hardy of all palms, are cold hardy to 0F and most likely colder and will grow OK in the shade, a little better with sun. Windmills, which are native to the Himalayas, are hardy to 5F as an average, may be able to take a little bit less for a short duration, and prefer full sun but will do OK in the shade. Aside from the Windmills getting tall and growing considerably faster than a Needle palm, Needle palms are native to the United States and do stay short trunk-wise but can have a 'mound' of fronds as high as 10 feet.

And yes by all means plant on a southern exposed spot!

saltydad

I have both Needles and Windmills here in my 7a garden. For their 1st 2 years I protected them with a burlap wrap after tying up the fronds, then put a plastic trash bag over the mummy (put a hole somewhere near the top for condensation and excess heat to vent) and mulch around the base. After that I have used no protection for any of them. The windmills are doing fine, and are at the stage where you can see some faster growth ((5-6 ft. tall). One needle looks great, growing wider. The other needle (which was a single upright pstem) is doing poorly. The winter before last just really cold damaged it, as did the ice and snow storms. It now has one petiole with damaged leaves. I'm hoping it lives; I plan on moving it from its central location, and using it as an understory plant below my tulip poplars. Interestingly, I also grew Livingstonia Chinensis as a die back perrenial for years, until the growing banana mat next to it started blocking too much sun.

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Kent M

The two windmill palms I planted in 2008 are still alive. They started out the same size, but the one on the south side of the house is not growing. The other one on the east side has been growing slowly, and is starting to grow faster. I have been covering both in the winter time with wire cages covered with white plastic and filled with dried leaves. The cage barely covered the larger one last winter. When I uncovered it in the spring, the top fronds were brown. The dried leaves had settled giving less protection near the top. The cage is too small for the upcoming winter. The tallest frond comes up to my chin with the others up to my chest. I don't know how I am going to protect it this winter. There is a family in St. Peters, MO with tall palm trees around their swimming pool. They protect them by constructing three-sided wooden frames wrapped in Saran wrap, and with thermostatically controlled space heaters inside. My windmill palm is close to the house, and may survive without protection, but I am afraid the fronds would still turn brown. The new growth is so slow to develop. Are there any commercially available enclosures that could be used as a mini-green house? I don't know if a larger cage with dried leaves would hold up for the duration of the winter. I am not very good at building things. I live in Shiloh, IL. The updated USDA Plant Hardiness Map shows the area to be in Zone 6b.