Seeds From Blue Java Ice Cream Bananas - Page 5

Charles G. · 08-15-2022, 09:53 PM

No I didn't trim them. Do you think it will affect how fast it starts growing?

Charles G. · 08-15-2022, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

This is how the Florida I bought on ebay looked the day I received it and it's a good example of how different substrates affect the plant.

There are millions of different mixes that will work, this seller used a soggy organic mix which promotes nice leaf growth but tends to rot the roots. The leaves did look beautiful but the roots fell off when I removed the pot. It also looked like they made a few practice cuts before they were able to separate it from the mother plant.

This may not look perfect but it was much better than the first a'ea'e I received in a trade. That was a funny day, I opened the box and picked up the plant and 90% of the rhizome fell off as a mound of slime. I figured it got cooked during shipping but contacted the seller anyways and I was told he had to trade it because it was in bad shape and would have died if he kept it.

The most important thing to understand is that the condition of a plant when it is received is not nearly as important as how it's new home is prepared.

Those partial cuts in the photo needed to be removed completely because they would never heal and would just continue to rot.

So in a situation like you have in those pictures after you determine that it has a grow point and you have it cleaned up, would you let it dry out or replant immediately?

PR-Giants · 08-15-2022, 10:01 PM

I really don't know. I always cut.

It had to be a bitch to get those roots to fit in that pot, nearly impossible to spread them out.

Charles G. · 08-15-2022, 10:04 PM

Lol it was.

PR-Giants · 08-15-2022, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles G.

So in a situation like you have in those pictures after you determine that it has a grow point and you have it cleaned up, would you let it dry out or replant immediately?

It depends on what your goal is.

Here's an a'ea'e that I wanted to move the growing point so I let it dry first. Just to be clear I removed it from the cortex and central cylinder so I could use those parts for macropropagation.

Basically I only dry if what I'm doing is going to take an excessive amount of time.

PR-Giants · 08-15-2022, 10:30 PM

This is a different a'ea'e with the same procedure done except I didn't want to move the growing point so it wasn't dried.

PR-Giants · 08-15-2022, 10:32 PM

Charles G. · 08-15-2022, 10:34 PM

So moving the grow point helps for macropropagation but leaving the grow point would be to replant current plant?

PR-Giants · 08-16-2022, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles G.

So moving the grow point helps for macropropagation but leaving the grow point would be to replant current plant?

I don't move the growing point for macropropagation, I move it to reduce the rate of rot.

For people that don't realize that every a'ea'e rots this procedure would seem pointless.

Move and remove are two different procedures and are done to accomplish two distinctly different objectives.

Most people intentionally kill the main growing point aka main pseudostem when they macropropagate because they don't know any better. The macropropagation process is exactly the same whether it's killed or removed, with the only difference being removing it allows it to be planted somewhere else and later macropropagated again.

PR-Giants · 08-16-2022, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

The a'ea'a is the banana I spent the most time studying so it's great getting information from others.

Two important questions.

How often do you examine the rhizomes and what's the rot rate to growth rate?

We are all a product of our experiences and my initial a'ea'e experience was probably much worse than most other growers. Starting with mostly slime didn't allow me much time for learning, it was either sink or swim.

The rhizome of every a'ea'e will rot and most growers will consider a growth rate faster than a rot rate a success.

When I was learning I read every post I could find about killing a'ea'e and this post always stayed in my mind.

He's one of the most accomplished grower on the forum and unfortunately he failed. The a'ea'e is a sensitive plant and most members fail before figuring out an acceptable substrate. Most a'ea'e growers think their choice of substrate works well until it doesn't and that's why getting advice on this forum rarely works out well. By routinely examining the rhizomes I was able to compare rot rates in different substrates to determine which worked best for me.

I'm posting his quotes because they were helpful to me and maybe they'll help other members.

It might appear to happen overnight but the rhizome rots over the lifespan of the plant and the croaking happens when it finally spreads to the growing point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitangadiego

I've had AeAe and it is the only full grown banana I've had that just up and croaked overnight.

My 2 cents.

Musa aeae potting mix

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitangadiego

100% compost.

nexmp76 · 08-19-2022, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

Substrate aeration is the most important part of a healthy plant and that's my main focus.

Figuring out a good substrate starts with determining what the plant does best in.

Because a banana plant has two distinct underground parts, the rhizome and the roots, should they be treated the same and if so which one should get preferential treatment. If not then what's an efficient way of giving both what they individually prefer.

Another way of looking at the balance of aeration and moisture in a substrate is which is easier to add or harder to remove as a plant becomes more established. Adding moisture is simple and lowering aeration is also very simple.

In the past I've tried explaining what I do but the problem with that is many hobbyist will substitute things without understanding how things function. There are hobbyists that don't understand the difference between BBQ charcoal and horticultural charcoal or pool filter sand and horticultural sand. When I saw members mixing pool filter sand with perlite it was clear I was wasting my time.

This thread came in very handy at just the right time. I had a few newer plants struggling and ended up getting some horticultural sand after cleaning them up. So far they have all recovered nicely. The sand was a bit pricey but helped give me an idea of approximately how large the grains I should look for in a possible cheaper alternative in the future. I just wanted to thank you for the great info.

PR-Giants · 08-19-2022, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexmp76

This thread came in very handy at just the right time. I had a few newer plants struggling and ended up getting some horticultural sand after cleaning them up. So far they have all recovered nicely. The sand was a bit pricey but helped give me an idea of approximately how large the grains I should look for in a possible cheaper alternative in the future. I just wanted to thank you for the great info.

Thanks for adding to the thread.

Many people won't use sand because they think it doesn't hold much moisture. A good way of understanding how much moisture it holds would be to weigh a pot of dry sand and then weigh it wet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

I would never buy a specific size sand because I prefer buying two screens. One screen that's the correct size and one that's one size below that. This allows me to remove any grains above and below the grain size I want.

Anything that has Horticultural in it's name is probably going to be expensive.

The most important thing to keep in mind when choosing a grain size range is that the smallest grain size in the range determines the aeration not the largest. Kinda like a chain where the weakest link determines it's overall strength.

That's the main reason why I wouldn't recommend any of the concrete sands, they have a large grain size range. Screening concrete sand would work if it contains enough of the desired size.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akula

I have had good results using Quickcrete Sand from Lowes which is pretty cheap. Not sure about the grain size.

PR-Giants · 08-19-2022, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

I don't move the growing point for macropropagation, I move it to reduce the rate of rot.

For people that don't realize that every a'ea'e rots this procedure would seem pointless.

Move and remove are two different procedures and are done to accomplish two distinctly different objectives.

This photo is a good example of how quickly a growing point can move.

Charles G. · 08-27-2022, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

The average hand pollinated Blue Java bunch produces well over a thousand seeds.

This tiny Blue Java bunch I just cleaned had over 800 seeds.

Just curious if you have sprouted any of the seed you got out of the blue java?

PR-Giants · 09-01-2022, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles G.

Just curious if you have sprouted any of the seed you got out of the blue java?

I was averaging over 3,000 new varieties each week from just the blue java which was much more than I wanted to plant so I decided to share the seeds rather than discard them.

This is a new synthetic hybrid I planted today, Sept 1, 22.

Charles G. · 09-01-2022, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

I was averaging over 3,000 new varieties each week from just the blue java which was much more than I wanted to plant so I decided to share the seeds rather than discard them.

This is a new synthetic hybrid I planted today, Sept 1, 22.

Wow that's a lot of different varieties lot's of work.
That's a nice looking banana plant, what all is it mixed with?

PR-Giants · 09-02-2022, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles G.

Wow that's a lot of different varieties lot's of work.
That's a nice looking banana plant, what all is it mixed with?

Yeah that one had some interesting characteristics. I planted it near a work area so I could more easily track it's growth. Seedlings don't take much work.

Is your variegated Florida alive?

Charles G. · 09-02-2022, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

Yeah that one had some interesting characteristics. I planted it near a work area so I could more easily track it's growth. Seedlings don't take much work.

Is your variegated Florida alive?

Yes it's alive I thought I was going to lose it but had to cut it down some, starting to grow back now.

PR-Giants · 09-03-2022, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles G.

Yes it's alive I thought I was going to lose it but had to cut it down some, starting to grow back now.

It's great that it's growing now, although a month is a long time.

If I knew you were going to lose the entire above ground stem I would have sent you something smaller.

Here's a Florida I potted on Aug 28 and it certainly won't take a month to produce leaves.

It's for sale if anyone is interested.

mchris752 · 09-03-2022, 12:16 PM

How much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

It's great that it's growing now, although a month is a long time.

If I knew you were going to lose the entire above ground stem I would have sent you something smaller.

Here's a Florida I potted on Aug 28 and it certainly won't take a month to produce leaves.

It's for sale if anyone is interested.

08-15-2022, 09:53 PM	#81 (permalink)
Charles G. Find me on the map! Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 119 BananaBucks : 4,396 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 186 Times Was Thanked 105 Times in 53 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Seeds From Blue Java Ice Cream Bananas No I didn't trim them. Do you think it will affect how fast it starts growing?

08-15-2022, 10:01 PM	#83 (permalink)
PR-Giants Commercial Grower Location: Florida & Greater Antilles Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,674 BananaBucks : 925 Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,939 Times Was Thanked 12,757 Times in 3,747 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,216 Times	Re: Seeds From Blue Java Ice Cream Bananas I really don't know. I always cut. It had to be a bitch to get those roots to fit in that pot, nearly impossible to spread them out. __________________ PR-Giants Photo Gallery 15,000+ Varieties

08-15-2022, 10:04 PM	#84 (permalink)
Charles G. Find me on the map! Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 119 BananaBucks : 4,396 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 186 Times Was Thanked 105 Times in 53 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Seeds From Blue Java Ice Cream Bananas Lol it was.

08-15-2022, 10:30 PM	#86 (permalink)
PR-Giants Commercial Grower Location: Florida & Greater Antilles Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,674 BananaBucks : 925 Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,939 Times Was Thanked 12,757 Times in 3,747 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,216 Times	Re: Seeds From Blue Java Ice Cream Bananas This is a different a'ea'e with the same procedure done except I didn't want to move the growing point so it wasn't dried. __________________ PR-Giants Photo Gallery 15,000+ Varieties

08-15-2022, 10:32 PM	#87 (permalink)
PR-Giants Commercial Grower Location: Florida & Greater Antilles Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,674 BananaBucks : 925 Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,939 Times Was Thanked 12,757 Times in 3,747 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,216 Times	Re: Seeds From Blue Java Ice Cream Bananas __________________ PR-Giants Photo Gallery 15,000+ Varieties

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08-15-2022, 10:34 PM	#88 (permalink)
Charles G. Find me on the map! Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 119 BananaBucks : 4,396 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 186 Times Was Thanked 105 Times in 53 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Seeds From Blue Java Ice Cream Bananas So moving the grow point helps for macropropagation but leaving the grow point would be to replant current plant?

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