Expedition through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand to be in 2016

PhilMarkey · 05-18-2015, 10:48 AM

Hi Guys,

I'm just testing the water to see what interest there is in people wanting to join an expedition I'm planning through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand during the 2016 summertime looking for bananas.

It's only the planning stages yet, and there are a lot of ifs. To mention a few – Burma is currently open to visiting Thai registered vehicles, but the vehicle's registration gets left at the Thai border and is collected again upon return, therefore we have to leave and return the same way; The vehicle has to be owned, not rented; We have to be accompanied by a Burmese official who travels in the vehicle with us the whole way; There are roads in Burma not open to travellers. Also, special permits are required prior to travelling every area of China that we intend to go through; and in China we also need a Chinese national travelling with us, though this may not be necessary for us for at least some of the destinations.

Like I mentioned, I'm just seeing what interest there will be for this. The expected duration for the whole trip would be something like 44 days to 2 months. Each participant would have to pay their share of the total costs, which at this time are difficult to work out, but it's likely to be around $5000 USD per person not including flights to and from Thailand.

For those who don't know me, I'm the plant hunter and owner of Trebrown Nurseries in the UK. I'm British, I speak fluent Mandarin Chinese, I have a driving licence to drive anything, and can get the tempory Chinese driving licence needed to drive in China, I'm a fully trained expedition leader, wealth of experience with expeditions worldwide over 27 years, mainly in Asia, and I possess the full 16 hour ITC SQA Accreditation (SCQF Level 5 credit 2) certificate in Outdoor First Aid – Emergency First Aid in the Workplace, & First Aid for Outdoor Incident Management. Last renewed on 12/01/2014.

The itinerary outlined thus far: Buy an off-road vehicle of suitable size in Thailand (this I will do prior to the start); Cross the Thai/Burma border at Tachileik to enter the Shan state; drive highway 4 to Meiktila and Mandalay (it may be possible to cut Meiktila and Mandalay out by taking route 44 which keeps us in the mountains, but for now this is the planned route), take highway 3 north from Mandalay to Yunnan, China crossing the border at Muse. There will have been opportunities to trek somewhat into the forests of Burma but we can't yet know what species we will have encountered there, but it would be worth looking for Musa yunnanensis var. yongpingensis as this is slightly north-west of Cangyuan where it was found. M. nagensium is another species we should be looking for. In Yunnan we can head North toward Boashan and make a detour up the Nujang valley toward Tibet. Back at Boashan we head toward Dali and Lijiang, two places I know very well. This is as far North as I envision going on this trip, although we could go a further 300 km North to Chengdu to look for M. basjoo, but I've travelled that road before and it is probably too much to ask after what we would have already done. Mind you when I travelled the Lijiang - Chengdu route before it was 1992 and all the roads were unpaved and slow-going, it might be easier now.
The return route would be different: From Kunming, Yunnan, China we drive down to the Laos border at Xishuangbanna. There is a wealth of banana species in this area especially M. itinerans species. We then cross the China/Burma border at Mongla, it's then just 60 km of yet unseen Burma until we reach Keng-tung which we passed through on the way up on highway 4, we return on highway 4 to Tachileik (120 km) and the Thai border. There will have been opportunities to trek somewhat into the forests of Yunnan.

Accommodation would be Hotels, Hostels, Guesthouses, Wild camps (86% Hotels, Guesthouses or similar; 14% Camping). I prefer wild camping in hammocks, as that is most convenient, cheap, is where the plants are, and the hammock gets you away from the leaches, but with government officials travelling with us wild camping might not be possible.

You don't need any travelling experience to partake in this expedition, just the sense of adventure, the time and the money, and reasonably fit. But the more experienced the better. I am capable and willing to do all the driving, but if other participants want to share driving then they need to get a Chinese driving licence issued in China. I would say that you need to have patience, and be able to put up with a lot of discomfort and hardship without complaining. An interest in wild bananas would be beneficial, but of-course there's plenty of other plants and animals to see, and in some of the most beautiful, unspoiled mountains and rainforest on the planet.

PM me with your questions.

Best wishes,
Phil

Olafhenny · 05-18-2015, 04:46 PM

Hi Phil,

and what, pray tell, will you do with the bananas, once you find them? I do not know the
laws in the UK, but to North America you cannot import them without smuggling them
and that poses some difficulty with all the x-ray equipment your luggage has to go through.
To Canada you are at least allowed to import seeds.

I have also travelled a limited amount in China on occasion of two visits there, and have
never heard of the requirement for Chinese escorts, although such requirement may exist,
if you want to travel to certain sensitive regions.

Best,
Olaf

Mauro Gibo · 05-18-2015, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilMarkey

Hi Guys,

I'm just testing the water to see what interest there is in people wanting to join an expedition I'm planning through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand during the 2016 summertime looking for bananas.

It's only the planning stages yet, and there are a lot of ifs. To mention a few – Burma is currently open to visiting Thai registered vehicles, but the vehicle's registration gets left at the Thai border and is collected again upon return, therefore we have to leave and return the same way; The vehicle has to be owned, not rented; We have to be accompanied by a Burmese official who travels in the vehicle with us the whole way; There are roads in Burma not open to travellers. Also, special permits are required prior to travelling every area of China that we intend to go through; and in China we also need a Chinese national travelling with us, though this may not be necessary for us for at least some of the destinations.

Like I mentioned, I'm just seeing what interest there will be for this. The expected duration for the whole trip would be something like 44 days to 2 months. Each participant would have to pay their share of the total costs, which at this time are difficult to work out, but it's likely to be around $5000 USD per person not including flights to and from Thailand.

For those who don't know me, I'm the plant hunter and owner of Trebrown Nurseries in the UK. I'm British, I speak fluent Mandarin Chinese, I have a driving licence to drive anything, and can get the tempory Chinese driving licence needed to drive in China, I'm a fully trained expedition leader, wealth of experience with expeditions worldwide over 27 years, mainly in Asia, and I possess the full 16 hour ITC SQA Accreditation (SCQF Level 5 credit 2) certificate in Outdoor First Aid – Emergency First Aid in the Workplace, & First Aid for Outdoor Incident Management. Last renewed on 12/01/2014.

The itinerary outlined thus far: Buy an off-road vehicle of suitable size in Thailand (this I will do prior to the start); Cross the Thai/Burma border at Tachileik to enter the Shan state; drive highway 4 to Meiktila and Mandalay (it may be possible to cut Meiktila and Mandalay out by taking route 44 which keeps us in the mountains, but for now this is the planned route), take highway 3 north from Mandalay to Yunnan, China crossing the border at Muse. There will have been opportunities to trek somewhat into the forests of Burma but we can't yet know what species we will have encountered there, but it would be worth looking for Musa yunnanensis var. yongpingensis as this is slightly north-west of Cangyuan where it was found. M. nagensium is another species we should be looking for. In Yunnan we can head North toward Boashan and make a detour up the Nujang valley toward Tibet. Back at Boashan we head toward Dali and Lijiang, two places I know very well. This is as far North as I envision going on this trip, although we could go a further 300 km North to Chengdu to look for M. basjoo, but I've travelled that road before and it is probably too much to ask after what we would have already done. Mind you when I travelled the Lijiang - Chengdu route before it was 1992 and all the roads were unpaved and slow-going, it might be easier now.
The return route would be different: From Kunming, Yunnan, China we drive down to the Laos border at Xishuangbanna. There is a wealth of banana species in this area especially M. itinerans species. We then cross the China/Burma border at Mongla, it's then just 60 km of yet unseen Burma until we reach Keng-tung which we passed through on the way up on highway 4, we return on highway 4 to Tachileik (120 km) and the Thai border. There will have been opportunities to trek somewhat into the forests of Yunnan.

Accommodation would be Hotels, Hostels, Guesthouses, Wild camps (86% Hotels, Guesthouses or similar; 14% Camping). I prefer wild camping in hammocks, as that is most convenient, cheap, is where the plants are, and the hammock gets you away from the leaches, but with government officials travelling with us wild camping might not be possible.

You don't need any travelling experience to partake in this expedition, just the sense of adventure, the time and the money, and reasonably fit. But the more experienced the better. I am capable and willing to do all the driving, but if other participants want to share driving then they need to get a Chinese driving licence issued in China. I would say that you need to have patience, and be able to put up with a lot of discomfort and hardship without complaining. An interest in wild bananas would be beneficial, but of-course there's plenty of other plants and animals to see, and in some of the most beautiful, unspoiled mountains and rainforest on the planet.

PM me with your questions.

Best wishes,
Phil

If I were a little younger I'd go. That sounds to be a very interesting adventure.

PhilMarkey · 05-19-2015, 02:42 AM

Hi Olaf,
I wasn't necessarily going to do anything with them other than photograph and study them in situ. But I'm sure you know I've been in this business for over 20 years, I am well aware of import and export restrictions around the world. More to the point is collecting permits in Burma and China, which of-course I will apply for.

Importing to the USA is not, as you say impossible. As an enthusiast grower all you need to do is apply for a "Small lots of seed" permit, free of charge from APHIS USDA (PPQ Form 587). I send masses of seeds to the USA all the time, all perfectly legally.

Your other question regarding Chinese escorts. This is only for self-drive vehicles. It used to be impossible to self-drive in China, these days they allow it provided you have the permits for the region, have a Chinese driving licence and are accompanied with a Chinese escort. It's more stringent the more remote you want to go. The real reason of-course is to stop you spying, and so they know where you are.

I am well aware of laws and regulations.

Thanks,
Phil

Olafhenny · 05-19-2015, 05:06 PM

Hi Phil,

no, I didn't know, that you have been in the 'trade' for 20 years.

Therefore you have a lot greater knowledge about these tings than I. Furthermore
your China experience obviously trumps mine by a wide margin. Thus I defer to that.

As you are interested in unusual bananas you may want to glimpse into the planatillo
panoramio (PP)here:

Seeds for small, exceptinally beautiful ornamental banana available (re-post)

The first definition, which readily presents itself is, that it is a M. Velutina. However,
while I believe, that the PP is a close relative to the Velutina, there are a few minor
differences and one quite decisive one:
While the Velutina has some edible matter between the seeds, the closest thing to
'edible' in the PP are the seeds. The pulp in which they are embedded is extremely
sticky and has the consistency of a very coarse version of tissue paper.

Best,
Olaf

PhilMarkey · 05-20-2015, 04:51 AM

Thanks Olaf,
There can be no-doubt those are M. velutina. There is another form of M. velutina in Burma, which is very tall, talk to Markku Häkkinen about it, but your plant is not that one.

Thanks for showing it!
Best,
Phil

Eiliyah · 03-02-2016, 11:06 PM

It was a great trip for me to have a stunning vacation with my friends to Burma, which I got many offers on Qatar airways and hotel bookings to save huge money for my next vacation.

Botanical_Bryce · 03-03-2016, 06:27 AM

If you make a friend with an exporter maybe you can have them ship plant material to the states.

05-18-2015, 10:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
PhilMarkey Member Location: Cornwall UK Find me on the map! Zone: 9a / 9b Name: Phil Markey Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 40 BananaBucks : 22,819 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9 Times Was Thanked 83 Times in 26 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Expedition through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand to be in 2016 Hi Guys, I'm just testing the water to see what interest there is in people wanting to join an expedition I'm planning through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand during the 2016 summertime looking for bananas. It's only the planning stages yet, and there are a lot of ifs. To mention a few – Burma is currently open to visiting Thai registered vehicles, but the vehicle's registration gets left at the Thai border and is collected again upon return, therefore we have to leave and return the same way; The vehicle has to be owned, not rented; We have to be accompanied by a Burmese official who travels in the vehicle with us the whole way; There are roads in Burma not open to travellers. Also, special permits are required prior to travelling every area of China that we intend to go through; and in China we also need a Chinese national travelling with us, though this may not be necessary for us for at least some of the destinations. Like I mentioned, I'm just seeing what interest there will be for this. The expected duration for the whole trip would be something like 44 days to 2 months. Each participant would have to pay their share of the total costs, which at this time are difficult to work out, but it's likely to be around $5000 USD per person not including flights to and from Thailand. For those who don't know me, I'm the plant hunter and owner of Trebrown Nurseries in the UK. I'm British, I speak fluent Mandarin Chinese, I have a driving licence to drive anything, and can get the tempory Chinese driving licence needed to drive in China, I'm a fully trained expedition leader, wealth of experience with expeditions worldwide over 27 years, mainly in Asia, and I possess the full 16 hour ITC SQA Accreditation (SCQF Level 5 credit 2) certificate in Outdoor First Aid – Emergency First Aid in the Workplace, & First Aid for Outdoor Incident Management. Last renewed on 12/01/2014. The itinerary outlined thus far: Buy an off-road vehicle of suitable size in Thailand (this I will do prior to the start); Cross the Thai/Burma border at Tachileik to enter the Shan state; drive highway 4 to Meiktila and Mandalay (it may be possible to cut Meiktila and Mandalay out by taking route 44 which keeps us in the mountains, but for now this is the planned route), take highway 3 north from Mandalay to Yunnan, China crossing the border at Muse. There will have been opportunities to trek somewhat into the forests of Burma but we can't yet know what species we will have encountered there, but it would be worth looking for Musa yunnanensis var. yongpingensis as this is slightly north-west of Cangyuan where it was found. M. nagensium is another species we should be looking for. In Yunnan we can head North toward Boashan and make a detour up the Nujang valley toward Tibet. Back at Boashan we head toward Dali and Lijiang, two places I know very well. This is as far North as I envision going on this trip, although we could go a further 300 km North to Chengdu to look for M. basjoo, but I've travelled that road before and it is probably too much to ask after what we would have already done. Mind you when I travelled the Lijiang - Chengdu route before it was 1992 and all the roads were unpaved and slow-going, it might be easier now. The return route would be different: From Kunming, Yunnan, China we drive down to the Laos border at Xishuangbanna. There is a wealth of banana species in this area especially M. itinerans species. We then cross the China/Burma border at Mongla, it's then just 60 km of yet unseen Burma until we reach Keng-tung which we passed through on the way up on highway 4, we return on highway 4 to Tachileik (120 km) and the Thai border. There will have been opportunities to trek somewhat into the forests of Yunnan. Accommodation would be Hotels, Hostels, Guesthouses, Wild camps (86% Hotels, Guesthouses or similar; 14% Camping). I prefer wild camping in hammocks, as that is most convenient, cheap, is where the plants are, and the hammock gets you away from the leaches, but with government officials travelling with us wild camping might not be possible. You don't need any travelling experience to partake in this expedition, just the sense of adventure, the time and the money, and reasonably fit. But the more experienced the better. I am capable and willing to do all the driving, but if other participants want to share driving then they need to get a Chinese driving licence issued in China. I would say that you need to have patience, and be able to put up with a lot of discomfort and hardship without complaining. An interest in wild bananas would be beneficial, but of-course there's plenty of other plants and animals to see, and in some of the most beautiful, unspoiled mountains and rainforest on the planet. PM me with your questions. Best wishes, Phil __________________ I'm the seed dealer at www.trebrown.com

05-18-2015, 04:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 270,520 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Expedition through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand to be in 2016 Hi Phil, and what, pray tell, will you do with the bananas, once you find them? I do not know the laws in the UK, but to North America you cannot import them without smuggling them and that poses some difficulty with all the x-ray equipment your luggage has to go through. To Canada you are at least allowed to import seeds. I have also travelled a limited amount in China on occasion of two visits there, and have never heard of the requirement for Chinese escorts, although such requirement may exist, if you want to travel to certain sensitive regions. Best, Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

05-19-2015, 02:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
PhilMarkey Member Location: Cornwall UK Find me on the map! Zone: 9a / 9b Name: Phil Markey Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 40 BananaBucks : 22,819 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9 Times Was Thanked 83 Times in 26 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Expedition through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand to be in 2016 Hi Olaf, I wasn't necessarily going to do anything with them other than photograph and study them in situ. But I'm sure you know I've been in this business for over 20 years, I am well aware of import and export restrictions around the world. More to the point is collecting permits in Burma and China, which of-course I will apply for. Importing to the USA is not, as you say impossible. As an enthusiast grower all you need to do is apply for a "Small lots of seed" permit, free of charge from APHIS USDA (PPQ Form 587). I send masses of seeds to the USA all the time, all perfectly legally. Your other question regarding Chinese escorts. This is only for self-drive vehicles. It used to be impossible to self-drive in China, these days they allow it provided you have the permits for the region, have a Chinese driving licence and are accompanied with a Chinese escort. It's more stringent the more remote you want to go. The real reason of-course is to stop you spying, and so they know where you are. I am well aware of laws and regulations. Thanks, Phil __________________ I'm the seed dealer at www.trebrown.com

05-19-2015, 05:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 270,520 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Expedition through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand to be in 2016 Hi Phil, no, I didn't know, that you have been in the 'trade' for 20 years. Therefore you have a lot greater knowledge about these tings than I. Furthermore your China experience obviously trumps mine by a wide margin. Thus I defer to that. As you are interested in unusual bananas you may want to glimpse into the planatillo panoramio (PP)here: Seeds for small, exceptinally beautiful ornamental banana available (re-post) The first definition, which readily presents itself is, that it is a M. Velutina. However, while I believe, that the PP is a close relative to the Velutina, there are a few minor differences and one quite decisive one: While the Velutina has some edible matter between the seeds, the closest thing to 'edible' in the PP are the seeds. The pulp in which they are embedded is extremely sticky and has the consistency of a very coarse version of tissue paper. Best, Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

05-20-2015, 04:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
PhilMarkey Member Location: Cornwall UK Find me on the map! Zone: 9a / 9b Name: Phil Markey Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 40 BananaBucks : 22,819 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9 Times Was Thanked 83 Times in 26 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Expedition through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand to be in 2016 Thanks Olaf, There can be no-doubt those are M. velutina. There is another form of M. velutina in Burma, which is very tall, talk to Markku Häkkinen about it, but your plant is not that one. Thanks for showing it! Best, Phil __________________ I'm the seed dealer at www.trebrown.com

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03-02-2016, 11:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Eiliyah Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1 BananaBucks : 312 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Expedition through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand to be in 2016 It was a great trip for me to have a stunning vacation with my friends to Burma, which I got many offers on Qatar airways and hotel bookings to save huge money for my next vacation. __________________ Rehlat

03-03-2016, 06:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
Botanical_Bryce Location: Inverness, Florida Zone: 9a Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 881 BananaBucks : 85,442 Feedback: 4 / 100% Said "Thanks" 7 Times Was Thanked 1,459 Times in 636 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Expedition through Burma/Myanmar and China from Thailand to be in 2016 If you make a friend with an exporter maybe you can have them ship plant material to the states.

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