Pancrazio

Let's pretend i'm willing to select some cold-hardy seeded clones of musa acuminata/balbisiana. I would assume that the easiest thing to do would be taking seeds from the northermost zone of their range, plant them and then let the plants take the cold of the winter: the ones capable of surviving would produce hardier seeded clones... this repeated over several generation produce the hardiest clones of a seeded acuminata/balbisiana, right? (i'm assuming that precaution are taken in order to avoid inbreeding)
Has anyone ever attempted this?
Does anyone know if some seller has in stock seeds from different zones of the natural range of acuminata/balbisiana? (well i would be more interested in acuminata actually)
(I'm just wondering; i know how hard banana breeding is, i just think that trying to see if some hardy seeded clone would take my winter well would be fun)

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H2O

maybe kenibreed (india) but don't know if from "cold" area.


The seed sources thread will help

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Pancrazio

I have seen several seller from that thread but many don't even have acuminata, let alone acuminata with location data....
When i collected cactus, location data for seeds was a pretty common thing among sellers, apparently Musa world works in a different way!

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H2O

well, the only one i had a look was kenibreed

here is their full catalog

they have :

".........
Musa acuminata
Musa balbisiana atia black
Musa balbisiana
Musa balbisiana “gigantia”
Musa balbisiana cv sikkimensis............."

i ordered once at , Exotischezaden.nl
i think they have balbisiana & acuminata.

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Pancrazio

Thank you for your suggestions!
So far no acuminata in any catalog seems to come from yunnan. But, in Flora of China i have found that acuminata grows in West Guangxi and Yunnan, at an height from sea level to 1200m, so i guess that musa acuminata from yunnan growing at 1200mt are pretty hardy, and it seems the way to go!

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Romul

Pancrazio no easy task. There are many difficulties. Need not small plots of land to grow all the seedlings, as a perspective may be just one of thousands. Poor germination of banana slow the process several times. With herbaceous plants work harder, simply frost, which may be in your area once a decade, would nullify the efforts of the previous decade. To avoid inbreeding, precautions taken by nature: the first of these types of banana blossom female flowers on the inflorescence, and then men.

Pancrazio

Too bad frost here comes a bit more often than once in a decade, we get a night to -5C every winter, if you want to find a climate without frost you must go more south than of Rome.
But bananas don't have any issues in such climate, at least hardiest one survive nicely there.
So, it wouldn't be a true selection!
No, i was thinking about real acuminata adapted to colder environment, like the ones of the higher elevations in Yunnan. Maybe bananas have such genetic diversity to allow such kind of plant to exists, the problem is, they aren't accessible on the market.

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Basjoofriend

Hi,

why not cross Musa basjoo and yunnanensis with pollen from AAB, ABB, e. g. Mysore, Dwarf Brazilian? This might be more successful, and then the hybrids will be seedless, edible and hardy! Seeded wild banana as mother and parthenocarpic fruit banana cultivar as dad, it is possible, see also Musa acuminata ssp. sumatrana syn. zebrina x Grand Nain, this hybrid also already exists and has also seedles edible fruits, but not very tasty.

You can also ask Jack Daw here, he has one hardy fruit banana from India, perhaps he can send you one pup.

Markku Häkkinen suggested to use Musa yunnanensis to breed fruit bananas for colder climate. Yes, he also found this hardier Musa acuminata there where you are looking for.

You can also contact Markku Häkkinwn, he is also member here.

Best wishes
Joachim

Pancrazio

Hi Joachim,
I'm just fantasizing right now. I think that Romul has a point when he says that i should need some plot of land for growing seedling, and right now i don't have so much land. However i have a bit of land to conduct small experiments, and if i had a small success in growing even a single hybrid, i think i could borrow some more land, from friends.

Anyway, i have heard (but i don't remember where i read that) that basjoo X acuminata are poor hybrids, lacking of vigour, so maybe basjoo isn't the way to go. Yunnaensis seems good, but basjoo has the advantage of shorter pseudostems, that are mandatory for some cooler enviroment if one wants the fruits, because are easier to protect. Here Basjoos flowers regularly, but i cant remember about seeing ripe fruits. If basjoo can ripe the bunch away from the plant, during winter, maybe i can be able to actually obtain seeds from an hybrid.

There's a thing that should be considered, and it is the bunch ripening time. Cultivars that ripen fast should be included in the genome because another things for colder environment is the short good season, and fruits are damaged easily. I think that one of the two, either senorita or veinte cohol should be included in the genome of the hybrid because the bunch should ripen during summer, seems obvious to me that the bunch can't survive on the plant during winter in colder environment (and moreover, since the leaf loss, it won't be very tasty even if it survives).

It's pretty ironic, anyway, that a cultivar for cooler enviroment is so hard to breed in cooler environment.

I'll search for Markku. Thank you for your informations.

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Romul

Pancrazio, I just warned of the difficulties you are waiting, but not discouraged by your imagination. Of course, prop, even if you have the land for a single plant. I do not have land and I grow in my apartment. : Bananas_b