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Main Banana Discussion This is where we discuss our banana collections; tips on growing bananas, tips on harvesting bananas, sharing our banana photos and stories.


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Old 08-17-2006, 07:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Chromosomes count and seeded bananas

I guess this is a question for Gabe or someone who knows, but I'm wondering if Musa basjoo is a haploid or diploid? If it is a diploid could it be crossed with a tetraploid(FHIA 01, FHIA 03), and a lucky seedling could turn out to be pathnerocarpic(spelled wrong).
Does chromosome count make a difference in pathnerocarpicy?
I have just been thinking lately that it would make a nice cross, and especially if it created a cold hardy edible banana. If only I had an acre in a better climate to play around with bananas.
Also Burmese blue, and helen hybrid need pollination in order to produce edible fruit...right?
Thanks
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Old 08-18-2006, 12:40 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chromosomes count and seeded bananas

All wild bananas are diploid, this includes M. basjoo. You might be able to cross it with triploids if you try really really hard, but basjoo doesnt seem to cross well with other bananas, plus to make those type of hybrids takes more than a few acres and a hard working banana enthusiast. FHIA goes thru literaly tens of thousands of pollinated bunches (wild diploid x cultivated triploid) to find just a hand full of seeds. Parthenocarpic traits are usually caused by the fact that a plant is triploid, this is because when it goes to make the sex cells for reproduction, there is an extra set left and it is not able to match up. These kind of hybrids may be theoretically possible, but extrodinarily hard to produce. However, if you want better success, you should try edible cultivars that are already female fertile, one I have had my eye on is 'Yangambi km 5' , aka 'Ibota'. Some bananas like these ('saba' and 'cardaba' are also possible options) have the tendency to produce seed (not always viable, but its a start) with a source of pollen. I would say these type of hybrids are your best bet if you want to experiment.
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Old 08-19-2006, 02:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chromosomes count and seeded bananas

Thanks Gabe,
I guess my pipe dream is just that, oh well lots to learn.
Maybe a hardy balbisiana type would make a better one for crossing.
Thanks for the info.
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Old 08-20-2006, 05:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chromosomes count and seeded bananas

Gabe, what causes a tetraploid like many of the Fhia varieties to produce seedless fruits? Since it is an even polyploid, shouldn't all the sets pair up. Does anyone know if there's fertilization but the ovules just don't develop into seeds? If so, would these varieties be considered non-parthenocarpic?

Here's a link on banana, http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/ae216e....htm#TopOfPage. Its a long read that I mostly scanned through but somewhere in there it talks about breeding strategies used. The Fhia method has been to breed diploid varieties for disease resistance and then crossing these with triploid female plants. Anybody up for breeding them for cold resistance? =) The other method was to use chemicals on diploids to induce them to tetraploids, then crossing the two. I wonder how hard it would be to get a tetraploid basjoo, this would probably seem to be the way to go considering its hard to cross M. basjoo?!?
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Old 08-20-2006, 08:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chromosomes count and seeded bananas

That is an interesting article! I have a carefully suppressed urge to try tissue culturing. I'm fairly well set up for it, I think, if I can convert some of my empty aquariums to the cause. I got up to about 100 tanks, bathtubs, etc. at one point, and breed Bettas for about 30 years.
Addictive hobbies aside, the section on mutation was interesting. I consider genetically modified foods one of the serious/ignored debates of our time, and this is practically a handbook.

Paul
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Old 08-20-2006, 08:30 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chromosomes count and seeded bananas

Paul - use a clear plastic container on it's side instead of an aquarium. They are lighter and cheaper.

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