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Identification and characterization guide for FHIA banana and plantain hybrids


FHIA-01, FHIA-02, FHIA-03, FHIA-17, FHIA-18, FHIA-23, FHIA-25, SH-3436, or SH-3640?






FHIA-02, FHIA-03, & FHIA-18, can be eliminated because their pseudostem has "no blotches or very few blotches"

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I wonder how stable this trait is across climates. It is certainly affected by the amount of shade (more shade, more blotches). This guide was made based on plants grown in the tropics (Honduras). I have plants that I'm pretty sure really are FHIA-18, which have heavy blotches and reddish pseudostems, which doesn't fit anything in the guide. It has drooping leaves, typical of tetraploid bananas, like the FHIA varieties. And it tastes like a hybrid between Prata Ana and something with A genes. Could be FHIA-01, but I don't think so. The "Catalogue of introduced and local banana cultivars in the Philippines" shows FHIA-18 with the same combination of blotches and reddish pseudostem. They got their FHIA-18 from the INIBAP transfer center, whose source was FHIA.

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A very smart banana scientist once told me to use these guides/traits for comparisons as a whole, not individually.

If something affects certain traits of one cultivar then it probably has a similar affect on other cultivars in that zone.

This is a FHIA pseudostem, also grown on my farm, that has less blotches and appears to be much different than the FHIA cultivars that are supposed to have many/more blotches.




Next time you use your "Catalogue of introduced and local banana cultivars in the Philippines" compare the FHIA pseudostem photos to each other.

You seem to make too many exceptions trying to fit a banana to a name, don't force a square peg into a round hole.

Most folks that look at your example of a FHIA-01 below, would probably think it looks more like a FHIA-02.

"the FHIA-01 has a short heart-shaped male bud with wide shoulders and bracts that lift one at a time."

When comparing male buds for "high shoulders" the rachis first needs to be cleaned of bracts that have lifted or begun to lift.

source: TARS


source: Catalogue of introduced and local banana cultivars in the Philippines

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This bunch is on an angle in relation to the pseudostem.



FHIA-17, FHIA-23, FHIA-25, & SH-3436, can be eliminated because of their bunch position.

According to the FHIA Guide, this banana should be either a FHIA-01 or a SH-3640.

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I completely agree.

Yep, could be true. I know the names that the plants I have were sold under (and many were misidentified), so maybe the "FHIA-18" I have is not actually that variety. Certainly tastes like something with Prata Ana as a parent and an all "A" genome parent as the other. If that's true, it could be FHIA-01 or SH-3640.

I can see that, based on the appearance of the male bud, but I'm pretty sure that conclusion would be wrong. That one also had the tart flavor you'd expect if Prata Ana was a parent, but that FHIA-02 reputedly doesn't have. I haven't tasted FHIA-02 yet, so I don't really know what it tastes like. Square peg, round hole?

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The pseudostem appears to be consistent with a FHIA-02,

the male bud appears to be consistent with a FHIA-02,

the bunch position appears to be consistent with a FHIA-02,

and now we know the taste also appears to be consistent with a FHIA-02.

I'm pretty sure that your conclusion, that their conclusion would be wrong, would be wrong.

Especially if that one had the tart apple flavor you'd expect if Prata Ana was a parent.

I've tasted the FHIA-02 and would have to agree with INIBAP,

International Network for the Improvement of Banana and Plantain, Montpellier, France.

"FHIA-01 and FHIA-02 have tart apple-like flavor."

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So, you're saying we should ignore the first thing mentioned in the FHIA key for distinguishing FHIA-02: by pseudostem color: reddish, no blotches or very few blotches (FHIA-02 and FHIA-18)?

It would be interesting if this one actually was FHIA-02. That would make it the first all "A" genome cultivar that doesn't struggle during winter in California that I've heard of.

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So, you're saying the less that you know makes things more interesting?

Reading some studies would have told you that the FHIA-02 all "A" genome cultivar does very well in subtropical climates.

Here's a quote from a great Doctor.

“The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more that you learn, the more places you'll go.”

― Dr. Seuss

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Really? By what standard? In comparison to Dwarf Red?

Here's a quote from a 2014 paper by Smith, Langdon, Pegg, Daniells published in Scientia Horticulturae (they compared 6 FHIA varieties [FHIA-01, 02, 17, 18, 23, and SH-3640], Williams, and Ladyfinger grown in both the subtropics and tropics in Australia):

"The AAAA hybrids, with the exception of FHIA-02 which was very susceptible to Fusarium wilt and displayed the poorest agronomic traits of the six hybrids, produced bunch weights as good as Cavendish but were significantly slower to cycle."

Not even as good as Cavendish varieties, which do very poorly in California compared to more "cool and dry tolerant" varieties like the Pisang Awak cultivars. About 1/2 to 2/3rds as many kg per hectare as Williams or FHIA-01.

And "subtropics" includes a huge variety of climates, from ones like parts of Florida and the Bahamas, which have conditions similar to the tropics from Spring through Autumn, versus Mediterranean climates like in California, which are very dry during summer. I am cautious about generalizing from one region in the subtropics to another. In the same way that findings from high elevation regions of the tropics don't reflect what happens at low elevations.

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Thanks for the links to those studies. They are interesting. But, unfortunately, the climates they cover are not really that much like the climate of SoCal, where 300 mm of rain per year is a pretty good year. In the more arid locals in those studies, it looks like they still had about 1000 mm of rain per year.

I wasn't trying to be deceptive, that paper was published in 2014, but you are absolutely right, the research was done a while ago, 1996-1999. I'm not sure how when the study was done is relevant to what they found.

Back to FHIA-02, the one I have deserves a better chance. It's in a spot where two different Pisang Awak clones have done very well, but it has struggled. That's why I have the impression it doesn't like my climate (relative to other cultivars). Obviously, a single plant in a single spot in a single yard provides a poor basis for generalizing how this variety does in my climate. And who knows, maybe it's not FHIA-02, though I'm pretty sure it is. It was obtained from a pretty reputable source (Going Bananas), but mislabeling is so rampant in the US.

To correct my claim about all "A" genome banana cultivars in SoCal. I think that FHIA-17 is pretty productive here (at least in Pitangadiego's yard), but I don't have any personal experience with it. I didn't care for the taste of the ones Pitangadiego let me try, so I haven't planted it.

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Thanks, I'll read the study. I'm curious why it took so long to get published.
How and when are very relevant, often a later study has shown an earlier study to be incorrect.
If it's a study on Fusarium wilt the results wont be of much use in SoCal.



OK.

FHIA-01 Going Bananas

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Well, there you go. It's hard to know if what you bought is the variety you purchased it as when dealing with the hobby trade in the US.

Yes, the fusarium part of that study isn't relevant to California, but the agronomic performance might be, e.g., relative differences in bunch weights among cultivars.

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I agree, the agronomic performance might be, but it depends if the controls are clean and/or how the study was conducted.

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After reading the study, I would agree with you that the FHIA-02 seems like a great cultivar for your area. Although the sentence you quoted did sound a little negative and confusing.

The study showed the FHIA-02 produced it's plant & ratoon crops sooner than all the other FHIA cultivars, 6 months sooner on average.

"For instance FHIA-02 had the fastest crop cycle in both the subtropics and tropics, ..."

The study showed the FHIA-02 plant crop bunch to only be 27.5 lbs., it does reference a more recent study.

"In contrast Nomura et al. (2013) found FHIA-02 to be as productive as FHIA-17 by the first ratoon harvest (31.5 t/ha/yr and30.7 t/ha/yr, respectively), although bunch size was smaller than FHIA-17 (22.3 kg and 26.3 kg, respectively)."

Skipping the plant crop and going directly to the more productive ratoon is very easy to do and I'll be sharing the results of my study in the near future.

This was interesting,

"However, it is in the area of postharvest performance and consumer acceptance that more work is required. FHIA-01, or‘Goldfinger’, which was released in 1995, briefly had a small niche in the Australian supermarkets. Inadequate supplies of fruit and perceived problems with ripening and eating quality have contributed to its demise. Others such as SH-3640.10, or ‘High Noon’, have recently been shown to have excellent eating qualities and research has shown that a significant population of Australian consumers prefer it over Cavendish and Lady Finger in blind taste tests (Daniells et al., 2013)."

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The fast cycle is definitely a plus, and makes me think that what I bought from Going Bananas is not FHIA-02, or my subtropical climate is very different from the Australian one where this study was done. That one is one of the slowest I have. Even with the fast cycle in this study, the smaller than average bunch made FHIA-02 one of the two least productive (tons/ha/yr) of the FHIA cultivars they tried. (For anyone else is is following this thread -- anyone? -- the other low production one was FHIA-18. FHIA-01 and FHIA-17 were the most productive of the FHIA cultivars in both the Plant Crop and Ratoon cycles. The non-FHIA Williams, the industry standard in Australia was as or more productive that the best FHIA ones.)

The comment about SH-3640 is interesting.

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Mark, why are you focusing on the data that is of least relevance to you and other hobbyists?

Your backyard is NOT a commercial farm, and your growing practices are very different.

If you're using any compost or mulch, you can expect even better results.









Eventually you'll start growing the Embrapa line, which is much better suited for the hobby trade.

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I agree, cycle time is probably the most important thing to the hobbyist, at least after fruit quality. (No point in us backyard growers growing fruit we don't enjoy eating.)

I would be very happy to grow anything out of the Embrapa line but I've never seen any of those cultivars available in the hobby trade. In fact, I'd be most happy to find a source available to hobbyists where the cultivars are all accurately identified!

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