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harveyc
07-30-2008, 04:30 PM
I can't believe I only joined up here in May 2007. I would have guessed it was a year earlier than that. When you get old time just flies, I guess!

As I reported back at http://www.bananas.org/f11/hello-isleton-california-1804.html#post12473 I had some tags which were "lost" for two plants. Both plants were TC plants purchased from Wellspring, one a Rajapuri and the other an Ice Cream. One died in the January 2007 freeze but the other came back from the corm. And that one is now flowering! Okay, not much to go on yet as just the tip of the flower is showing. I just noticed the flag leaf two days ago. I'll post more as it comes along.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=11916&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11916&ppuser=775)

:woohoonaner:

damaclese
07-30-2008, 04:48 PM
Rajapuri dosint look like any of my Ice creams to yellow ribing on the leafs is to pronoced for IC alsow the leafs ungalat alot more them my IC

Bananaman88
07-31-2008, 12:59 PM
Harvey,

How tall is your plant? Everything I've read states that RP stays fairly short.

harveyc
07-31-2008, 02:15 PM
Hi Brent, I thought I had posted that info but I guess at my advancing age things don't always get written down before the thought vanishes!

The pseudostem is about 6 to 6.5 feet. Thanks for making that point which I had forgot to consider.

harveyc
08-20-2008, 04:35 PM
Here is an updated photo taken today. I have about 75 fingers and the last two hands have had some male flowers (with the last hand being mostly male flowers), so I think that's it. I measured it and the bloom is at 6'9". Does it look like Raja Puri?

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=12588&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12588&ppuser=775)

Dean W.
08-20-2008, 05:03 PM
Wish I could help you, but mine is still a corm.:)

Raules
08-20-2008, 07:54 PM
It seems to me Ice Cream.

harveyc
08-20-2008, 11:05 PM
It seems to me Ice Cream.

Thanks Raules. Based on the wiki information, it seems to be too short for Ice Cream.

Musa Rajapuri - Bananas Wiki (http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Musa_%27Rajapuri%27) says the Raja Puri is small at 6 to 8 feet tall.

Musa Ice Cream (Blue Java - Bananas Wiki (http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Musa_Ice_Cream_(Blue_Java)) says it is up to 15 feet tall.

Mine flowered at 6' 9".

It's too early to tell what the fruit will look like when mature.

Thanks,

Harvey

Chironex
08-20-2008, 11:09 PM
My RP is still very small, so I couldn't render a solid opinion one way or the other. But, it sure looks great, whatever it is!!!!

modenacart
08-21-2008, 11:12 AM
What did it look like when it was small? Did it have any red speckles?

Bananaman88
08-21-2008, 12:49 PM
My 'Ice Cream' has pink on the edges of the petioles, while my 'Raja Puri' shows no coloration (other than green, of course) in this area. Maybe it is a RP. I think Jarred grows them both. Maybe he can offer an opinion. I also think I remember seeing a recent photo by Jarred of his RP with what looked to be persistant male flowers on the bud. Your photo above looks like the plant is still in the process of setting fruit so maybe in a few more days if the male flowers continue to hang on rather than fall this may be another indication of it's identity as well.

Bananaman88
08-21-2008, 12:55 PM
Here is the photo I was thinking of.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=5400&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5400)

modenacart
08-21-2008, 01:17 PM
My raja had red speckles on the leaves when it was young but they have all gone away now.

Bananaman88
08-21-2008, 03:27 PM
Same here- red blotches on the young leaves of Raja Puri. None on Ice Cream.

harveyc
08-21-2008, 11:31 PM
I just double-checked. The petioles don't have pink edges and the young pups which are part of this mat don't have even the tiniest hint of red spots.

This TC plant bought from Wellspring on eBay. I also bought Ice Cream at the time and also two Dwarf Orinoco. I did not lose labels on my Dwarf Orinoco but they seem too tall. I have several over 10' tall and one is just starting to bloom at 11'.

Maybe the plant in question is Dwarf Orinoco and they shipped me two Ice Cream (even though pink edges are absent, I've had one Ae Ae with pink edges on the leaves but two Ae Ae with no pink edges).

Frustrating! :(

Bananaman88
08-22-2008, 08:39 AM
Harvey- I double-checked my RP when I got home from work yesterday and it does have a very thin line of pink along the very edge of the petioles afterall. However, it's nowhere near as noticable as it is on my Ice Cream. Don't really know if this will help or not but I thought I'd pass it on.

MediaHound
08-24-2008, 09:39 AM
The bud looks more "droopy" than Raja Puri, the crown does not step as tightly as Raja Puri.
The female flowers are reminiscent of Orinoco or Ice Cream in my opinion, but a closeup would help.
These are a photo of RajaPuri male flowers that I took, it will help you compare yours:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=5403&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5403&si=rajapuri&perpage=12)
Click it a couple times to blow it up larger.

And in this pic of RajaPuri, I think I recall removing some of the male flowers on the raceme where they are missing:
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=5399&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5399&si=rajapuri&perpage=12)

harveyc
09-09-2008, 02:09 PM
Here are some updated photos I took today. It seems that it could be Raja Puri still, the male flowers seem similar to yours, Jarred.

I'm not sure what you mean regarding the droopy flower, but my climate is a lot less humid than yours so that probably causes some differences in appearances.

Thanks,

Harvey

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13031&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13031&ppuser=775)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13033&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13033&ppuser=775)

pitangadiego
09-10-2008, 04:41 PM
The flower has some resemblance to RP, but the plants style (how the leaves spread from the trunk sure doesn't look like mine.

harveyc
09-10-2008, 04:58 PM
Thanks, Jon. I'll have to wait to see what the fruit tastes like, I guess.

harveyc
09-12-2008, 03:57 PM
I cut off the flower bud and all male flowers today and took this updated photo.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13231&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13231&ppuser=775)

momoese
09-12-2008, 05:45 PM
Here is my Raja Puri that I got from Jon. You can see the leaf structure on the pup in front of the mother. The bunch has about 90 fingers and bloomed at 6 feet of p-stem. These pics were taken today.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13236&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13236&ppuser=42)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13235&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13235&ppuser=42)

Chironex
09-12-2008, 06:51 PM
Here is an updated photo taken today. I have about 75 fingers and the last two hands have had some male flowers (with the last hand being mostly male flowers), so I think that's it. I measured it and the bloom is at 6'9". Does it look like Raja Puri?

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=12588&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12588&ppuser=775)

How does one distinguish male from female flowers on the hands?

momoese
09-12-2008, 07:01 PM
The female flowers are on the actual fingers, the males are small usually fall off. Look at the picture above of my Raja Puri and you'll see female flowers on the end of the fingers, and some smaller male ones directly below them. When you have both on one hand you can see the difference.

harveyc
09-12-2008, 07:19 PM
The male flowers on this banana did not fall off very easily like my other two bananas (or the Cal Gold which fruited last year). Looking at Jarred's photo, it seemed that the male flowers hung on his also.

I can't quite make out the leaf difference, Mitchel. I just took a photo of a large pup in this mat to see if that shows the leaves on mine any better.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=13238&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13238&ppuser=775)

Dean W.
09-12-2008, 07:51 PM
Great photos Guys.

momoese
06-21-2009, 11:13 AM
So what was the consensus on your plant Harvey? RP?

harveyc
06-21-2009, 02:46 PM
So what was the consensus on your plant Harvey? RP?

I'm undecided, though I think it's probably RP. None of the pups have shown the red markings but the male flowers did hang on. The fruit didn't mature very well so that's not much to go on. I got some tiny TC plants of RP from Richard to help make a comparison, but it'll be a couple of years for me to get those large enough to flower. I should have another flower from this mat before long, I hope.

Thanks,

Harv

momoese
06-21-2009, 09:07 PM
If it's any help my RP drops all the male flowers and my DC retains almost all of it's.

conejov
06-21-2009, 11:32 PM
How did the fruit taste did it taste like IC? or RP?

harveyc
08-26-2010, 01:07 AM
The flower has some resemblance to RP, but the plants style (how the leaves spread from the trunk sure doesn't look like mine.

Jon made a personal inspection of this mat yesterday. He picked some fine weather of 100F+ to stroll around the garden. He thought they looked like Orinoco. I've got two plants in this mat with fruit right now. The larger bunch is on a flower that just showed the first hand yesterday and the second hand (14 fingers, a personal record for me) today.

I'll try to get updated photos in the next day or so. It's too dark right now!

sunfish
08-26-2010, 01:02 PM
RP

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=24161&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24161)

Male flowers

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=25352&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=25352)

harveyc
08-28-2010, 10:54 PM
Okay, I finally have some photos to post. I took these two days ago. As I said above, I've got two plants in this mat with fruit now. The first three photos are from the first flower on a less vigorous plant that is has been putting out male flowers for a while. The fourth photo is from a bloom on a more vigorous plant which showed it's first hand earlier this week and the second hand the following day with 14 fingers. I see two more hands at the moment. I'm guessing I'll have over 100 fingers on this latest flower.

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=36141&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=36141&ppuser=775)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=36142&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=36142&ppuser=775)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=36143&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=36143&ppuser=775)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=36144&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=36144&ppuser=775)

harveyc
08-28-2010, 11:09 PM
Note: None of my pups have ever had wine-colored spots on them. Also, the edges of my petioles and leaves on my somewhat large (3') pups that I just looked at don't have any coloration either.

We were over 100F earlier this week and were in the lower 70s today. If we get some decent warm weather these things will have a chance of sizing up!

venturabananas
08-28-2010, 11:38 PM
I'm no expert, but Harvey, you plant looks exactly like my dwarf Orinoco and nothing like my rajapuri.

sunfish
08-29-2010, 12:05 AM
I'm no expert, but Harvey, you plant looks exactly like my dwarf Orinoco and nothing like my rajapuri.

I agree.The Raja has a short wide leaf and shorter petioles than Orinoco.

harveyc
08-29-2010, 12:07 AM
Thanks, Mark.

Do your Orinoco ever have as many as 14 fingers on a hand? I didn't think they had that many. The only time I bought Dwarf Orinoco (I thought) was in the same order as this plant but those two plants ended up being tall (10-11') and something else.

venturabananas
08-29-2010, 12:37 AM
Harvey,

I wish I could answer your question about the number of fingers on a hand -- but I'm a newbie. I only planted my first bananas back in April. The p-stem on my dwarf Orinoco is only about 4', so even if things go well, I probably won't be able to say anything about DO fruit for a year. But I can say that the growth form of my DO is really distinct from my other varieties (rajapuri, dwarf Brazilian, dwarf Namwah, misi luki, dwarf red, d. cavendish, goldfinger) -- longer petioles, as Tony said, and more widely spaced leaves.

harveyc
08-29-2010, 01:17 AM
Tony, regarding the leaf dimensions, I'd say that the mature leaves on the plants in this mat are about 24" wide by 48-60" long. I cut some off of an adjoining plant the other day as they were getting hung up in the latest flower. I was trying to figure out if I should round up a pig and wrap it up in the leaves. ;)

As I recall from 2008, these bananas never ripened up very well and I'm not very hopeful of having enough time to get some ripe fruit from them this year either (unless we get quite warm and stay that way).

I hate having the uncertainties of these unknown varieties!

sunfish
08-29-2010, 10:53 AM
The leaves on my Raja are about 3' long and 14" wide petioles are around 4".The Dwarf Orinoco leaves about 3' long 11" witde petioles 14" long. No red on the Orinoco.

Raja leaves
http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=36151&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=36151&ppuser=2868)

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=36150&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=36150&ppuser=2868)

Gabe15
08-29-2010, 01:39 PM
Harvey, your plant is 'Orinoco' to me. If it's not the exact same as other common 'Orinoco', it is certainly at least a Bluggoe of some sort.

harveyc
08-29-2010, 03:22 PM
Thanks, Gabe. This is quite crazy. Back several years ago I bought 4 plants from Wellspring on eBay. Two were labeled as Dwarf Orinoco but they are tall 10-11' plants that some have suggested might be Namwah. The plant in this post was labeled either Raja Puri or Ice Cream (tags got mixed up and one died in the freeze of January 2007 (low of 20F and stayed below freezing for a few days). I wrote Wellspring last year and they were unaware of anyone indicating there had been any mix-ups, though I imagine that's because most folks don't bother to pay much attention or they ended up losing them to winter freezes.

I still have some small Raja Puri plants (bought through Richard's group purchase) so I can hopefully one day actually fruit Raja Puri here.