Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

They don't look a whole lot like each other, but they are still both Ensetes. I can assure you of this: They are both very difficult to germinate. I see RPS has fresh seeds now too. I'm almost tempted, but I just bought several hundred other seeds from them. Ahhh...

The habit of growing on limestone cliffs is interesting. Sounds like the seeds somehow get deposited there, and probably sit there for quite some time. The monsoons might trigger them to germinate. There is a cactus, Ferocactus I think, that requires gibberellin in order to germinate. They grow on rocky outcroppings, and the seeds must land in a crack on top of some leaf litter. When the rains come, fungus will grow on the litter, and then the cactus seeds will germinate.

There is also the thought that repeated cycles of wet, then hot and dry, could weaken the seed coat enough to allow water to penetrate it. Works for some palm seeds.

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Yep, they look different, but it is amazing they grow in such invironment.
I don't know if a high PH also is good for ventricosum or only for those
two.
Maybe they grow in any neutral soil well.

When your perrieri seeds sprout, you can test the different soils. If mines
sprout I will test this too.


Ron

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Ron, I can tell you that my bananas had smaller fruit, and smaller bunch sizes last year here in Knoxville. I think it had something to do with my high-acid soil. The previous year in Nashville, my pH was quite a bit higher than it is here, and fruit and bunch sizes were quite larger. Nashville, although only about 2 1/2 to 3 hours from here, has completely different soils than E. TN. They are alkaline. I also had some leaf deformities last year here, which I now attribute to my poor soil. I have heavily amended it with lime and organic matter this year, so I am hoping for better results!

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

the bad news is my seeds still have not germinated yet but the good news is I finally found and placed a description of the banana in the WIKI.

http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Ensete_Perrieri

ron

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Nothing here either, after over 3 1/2 months. Patience is definitely needed with this species!

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

I think i will give these guys a try. It's sounds like a big challenge. :nanaruns:

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

I hope you will succeed mark, I have not much confidence in my
seeds anymore because I tried it in three different ways.
1. In normal sterile soil
2. In soil with additional lime
3. In a bottom of water only.

They are still in but i see nothing happen

Ron

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

I took out the 70 + seeds that I didn't sow out of the bag today. There are two distinct colors: Brown and black (or really dark brown). I took a razor and made a chip on a lateral side of the seed coat, flaking away integument until I got to endosperm. The lighter-colored brown seeds had an off-white, almost cream-colored endosperm. The dark brown, almost black seeds had very white endosperm. Curious, I decided to split a few of the light-colored ones open to examine the embryo. The first three seeds that I split either had no embryo, or I just couldn't find it. The next three I split did have an embryo, but it was quite obviously not viable anymore. They were brownish-colored and dessicated very badly. The seeds split quite easily also with a pair of pliers. This is one reason why germination seems impossible with these seeds. The embryo is dead! I scarified ten of the dark-brown seeds, and all had chalk-white endosperm, so I am soaking them now. We'll see what happens!

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

The embryo is dead

That must be it Frank else at least one of all those seeds should have sprouted especially because we tried it in several different ways but nothing
happens.

Ron

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Ron, I didn't split any of the darker-colored seeds open to check the contents, because the endosperm looked bright white. I wouldn't give up hope on them yet anyway.

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Nice thread you all. I'm trying to learn more about this one myself.:weightliftingnaner:

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

All hello! The Interesting theme. I have 4 seed Ensete perrieri from Russian the Internet-shop and I have already planted them. Certainly I have small percent of their germination, but all I hope for it. I shall observe of a theme. All the best!:scroll:

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Raules,

Good luck! I just ordered some seeds from RPS last night and they didn't have that one available anymore. Keep us posted, as 4 seeds isn't to many to work w/.:waving:

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

I put 5 E. perrieri in Jiffy plugs, another 5 in Jiffy-Mix and 6 onto embryo rescue medium. Still waiting on the original 6 placed into peat from back in June. Have them on a heat mat in a humidome, flucutating between 69 and 80 degrees. Would like to increase the fluctuation range to 20 degrees, but my heat meat won't get the soil temps up high enough despite the claims of a 20 degree rise over ambient room temps.
I will just keep them there and moisten every few days until they pop, I don't care if it takes another year!
Actually, I am hopeful that one of the Embryo Rescues starts doing something, but they have only been onthe medium for about a week so far.

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Update, nothing has germinated as of yet, but hope springs eternal. I have put more onto embryo rescue medium and just got some new medium that I plan to try. I need one more ingredient that I will need to add to it. This is a tough one to germinate, but I am determined to get this and ingens to sprout if it's the last thing I do. I have them all over the lab, in flats inside and out, fluctuating temps, dark, light, you name it.
I am also going to put some just into good old black dirt after a soaking in ethrel and kinetin to see what happens. The kinetin is on its way, just need to find ethrel. A product called Florel has ethrel as the active ingredient, but only 3.9% concentration, the rest is inert. Wondering if this will work, or would I need 100% Ethephon (it's chemical name is Ethephon, [(2-chloroethyl) phosphonic acid])
Any input from you chemists?

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Depending on what it does will depend on the concentration you use.

These people seem to sell it http://www.alfa.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB...67205G+ALF+ENG

I'm a chemist, but I have no idea as to what it does or what it's used for.

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Thanks! I tried the link but got an error message something to the effect of a 500 Internal Server Error,

"Internal Server Error

Cannot read script output pipe. "



Please check the link and re-post or PM it to me. Thanks again!

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Alfa Aesar: laboratory chemical suppliers, distributors

If you type in the chemical name it will find it, I think it's about $42 for a gram! Mighty expensive stuff.

What is supposed to do? I read a little about it being used to stimulate the production of latex.

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Got it, thanks James!

One gram will go a long way as only a few milligrams are used in the formula. It has been researched for its combinative/synergistic effect with kinetin in certain seed germination experiments. I plan to emulate these experiments seeking to ascertain its effectiveness on Musa and Ensete seeds. Among other things, it has shown an ability to increase polyribosome counts, stimulate production of ethylene and tends to affect absisic acid release. These factors contribute to seed germination. The two also work with gibberellins to release photodormancy.

Since banana seeds are difficult to germinate, I am hoping that this research may help to unlock the germination pathways.

Re: Trying again with Ensete perrieri (from RPS)
 

Another chemist here:
Etephon is taken up by the plant, and converted into ethylene by it, so I think using very high concentrations might be dangerous. I have no idea though it you can dillute it by dissolving it.
Kind regards,
Remko.