Vlad

I am new to bananas and no next to nothing about them but am excited growing them.
I am in zone 6a. I have a greenhouse kept at 60F with no supplemental lighting.
How can I grow a banana to fruiting stage?
How should I overwinter it?
What cultivars should I get?

JP

Heat it between 75-80. That's gonna help!
Fertilize.

edwmax

With a greenhouse you might succeed. My suggestion is to start with dwarf cavendish and/or Truly Tiny. The Tiny can be grown in the house during the winter. Both makes good patio container plants during the warmer months. These are short cycle plants. Look at the forum wiki for complete description of both. For your area & zone the Dwarf varieties are more likely or easier to fruit.

You need to learn how to grow bananas and I suspect your first ones will die. Just learn and go buy a new plant. ... just my 2 cents ...

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sputinc7

I would recommend a SH-3640... it's short cycle and not too tall and doesn't mind if it's cool (60 is cool for bananas). I hear they make big bunches and are tasty, too.
Anyway, with a heated greenhouse, even if it's 60 overnight, it will get warmer in the day most of the time, right? Here in central Florida, that's our winter and they grow fine.

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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

john_ny

I agree that you should start with a dwarf variety. If your temp gets to 60°F, at night, but warms up in the day, you should be OK. I've seen fruiting variety bearing fruit in Orlando.

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John

cincinnana

Great post.

What else are you growing in your hot house hot peppers,lettuce basil?.
Hot houses are great ....I do not have one but my buddies do. Jealous.

You can overwinter your banana plant in your greenhouse as you described that is kept at 60f with no supplemental lighting.
Your plants will do well ...the warmer the better.

There are many Youtube videos with bananas and greenhouses to help you start your banana endeavor.

Many dwarfs could be larger than you think, with a possible footprint of 10x10+-.
So keep that in mind for your hothouse

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Gabe15

First thing to consider is how much room you will have in there, what size is your greenhouse?

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

Vlad

Thank you everybody for the replies. (By the way, being new to this forum, I don't know how to use the thank new function.)
Looks like overwintering in the greenhouse is out because it is only 8X12. But aren't †here any any small varieties or are they not worth growing?
I have read about planting in ground in the spring , digging up in fall and overwintering in the basement. Is that an option for me? Will there be enough time for them to develop fruit?

sputinc7

You could select a couple nice pups in fall, pot them and let them grow bigger all winter in the greenhouse. In spring, when they will likely be getting pretty big for the greenhouse, plant them outside. If you have a short cycle banana, you should succeed some of the time. At the end of the season, save a couple more new pups and do it again.

__________________

If you lose your head and give up, you neither live nor win.

https://sputinc7.wixsite.com/covwc

Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

Gabe15

Is that the footprint of the greenhouse in ft? If so, that's enough, I guess I was really asking more about what is the height?

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

cincinnana

Heights are usually 6 feet-+ for those units....

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Vlad

Greenhouse is 8X12 ft and 9 ft high.

Gabe15

It's gonna be a squeeze, but I would look at 'Dwarf Orinoco', they are hardy and small plants, the fruit quality is not the most preferred but they can be nice and any homegrown bananas will be better than none.

You can start it outside in a large container this spring, and then maybe plant it in the ground in the greenhouse towards the end of summer to overwinter there, and continue growth the next year, you could also just put it straight into the greenhouse but it won't get full size in one season anyway so you could use the greenhouse space for something else over the first summer.

The next challenge will be temperature control. The optimum would be to never let it get below 60°F for continuous growth, but that can be difficult with a simple greenhouse sometimes. The next reasonable threshold would be to not let it get below 35-40°F, at that temperature the plant will not be growing, but there will also be no damage, it would just hold on until temperatures warm again. At the very least, you should avoid any frost or freezing, as although the plants can survive, it dramatically reduces the changes of fruiting and can easily stunt the plant as it will start to cause damage, and in a sub-optimum environment, you really want to avoid that.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

cincinnana

Your grow window is about 160+- days frost to frost and it will be slightly more with your greenhouse. The rest of the year is down time because these plants are tropicals and need all the consistent heat and light you mother nature can supply.


Google frost dates for Medway <-------click the link.

If your hot house is not heated in the coldest months your plants will not survive.

Here are two cute Dwarfs(patio size) which are fun to grow. I will add they probably will not flower .
They will fit in your greenhouse better than some larger plants though.


Common names are Truly Tiny and Little Prince.

These have a smallish footprint and are easy to bring indoors in the winter. Also the plants had been inside for 5 months in substandard conditions.
Photo was taken Feb 6th
Plants are knee high and waist high while sister plants in Florida are slightly larger.`
Disregard the taller Bordelon pups in the background.

.
Two varieties of the seven dwarfs collection
by
Hostafarian,
on Flickr

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edwmax

I'll give a possible solution for you to grow fruited bananas. A couple of members here may argue against this, but the really is 'no one on the forum has tried it'. I will be soon.

First, ... TC banana plants have (are being) promoted as fruiting months sooner than that of banana sucker plants. This being true, then one should be able to start TC plantlets in his greenhouse; plant out in the spring; and see fruiting about mid summer or early fall. ... My verification this is possible comes from Dr. Esendugue Fonsah in the report of 2003 banana trials in Georgia. Read his conclusion to start the plantlets earlier in November.
http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstrea...1/35010086.pdf

Next, read this thread for a little insight of growing & problems TC banana plantlets. Best Practice to grow TC Bananas Specifically what I learned from the loss of my little plants was they needed lots of moisture from humidity & misting to grow to field ready plants.

Now the above (member replies) recommendations to use dwarf banana varieties is that these being shorter plants, they will grow to fruiting height sooner than their full size cousin. The full size banana plants (14 to 20 ft tall) take from 260 to 300 days of warm growing weather to fruit; and another 90 to 120 days to harvest ripe fruit. This is a total of 13 to 15 months (+/-) for ripe fruit. In our growing zones cold weather (days below 60 deg F) add to the growing time, plus time to regrow the stalk if it froze to the ground. This is the 2 to 2.5 years you see being stated as growing & fruiting of bananas in our areas. ... So 'short cycle' & dwarf plants are to your advantage to fruiting.

Now you have a greenhouse where TC plantslets can be started in 3 L pots early October and grown until April or May then set out. Keep the greenhouse temps above 65 deg F. These plants would probably be about 3 to 5 ft tall. If every thing go well, you should have ripe bananas by late summer or early fall. ... In the fall dig up the corms and save in the garage (keep from freezing). Pot the corm and sell these next spring. Start new TC plantlets again in October. Your greenhouse is small, but I think it could handle at least 20 plants for you first try.

The Truly Tiny I recommended above grows to 2.5 to 3 ft tall and fruits a small fat little banana (aka: kiddy banana). The dwarf Cavendish fruits at about 6 ft. Dwarf Orinoco is very cold hardy and could be set out earlier in the spring.

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Tytaylor77

I'm not the most experienced banana grower or claim to be an expert. All I know is what I do and what I have seen and experienced. I have had bananas for years and have really been deep into bananas for the last 3-4 years. How much experience do you have edwmax? How many varieties did you fruit last year? How many of each variety? Just curious.

I have veinte cohol. I love VC and recommend it to many many people. It's a great banana. And does what it says here in 8b. You are confused about the study by Dr Fonsah. I haven't spoken to him personally but have a close friend who does know and speak to him. Your link also doesn't work. Here is the link to "part" of his study. http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstrea...onsah_42_1.pdf

In the study they did use some TC plants from 2 sources. One being USDA Tars in PR. They also used corms/pups from GB in Homestead FL. The remainder of the program even when they moved they used PUPS. They even SOLD pups.(there is a breakdown to how many they sold even). They also recommend using PUPS.

You also say nobody has tried what you are saying. I HAVE. I even got my TC plants from the same location as Dr Fonsah from USDA Tars in PR. Same exact clone and material they used for the study. Even unloaded a photo so you would believe me:


Did this banana bloom for me within one year. No. I received it in Sept. Hardened it off and grew in my small heated greenhouse until winter then planted in the ground in early April. VC when under 4' or so grow very very slow. When they reach 5' or more they grow fast.

For me growing a TC in summer it takes it 6 months at least to equal a 3' pups corm and size. How is that same 4 inch tall banana gonna outgrow a 3-4 foot pup. Not possible. I know first hand. I'm sure the TC labs and sellers love you believe this though. A tall namwa pup will be below the ground to a 5' pup in about 2 weeks. Maybe 3 weeks I haven't counted exactly. You show me a TC that will do that. Make sure you take lots of pictures of your TCs and record their progrsss.

In fact what varieties do you have. I will give you a head start count yours right now vs my pups that haven't broken ground Level yet. Wanna race? Just for the fun of it? You pick the variety I have over 40 different types, I'm sure I have it.

Now you can do it with a TC. Plant a VC TC whenever just make sure it's 3-4 foot come spring and plant it. By first frost you will have bananas in zone 8b and surely zone 8a where the study was done. Why buy new TCs to regrow when you have 7+ pups per Vac each year. They pup like crazy. The Dr is saying remove pups that fall to be planted out over 3' in spring.

Next your comment about dwarf varieties. Dwarf varieties do not grow or fruit any faster than their larger brothers. It is just a mutation of the full size version. Sometimes a little less or smaller fruit. I get bigger fruit and bunches from dwarf Orinoco over tall for some reason, should be about the same. We are saying grow a dwarf for the height benefit. You can fit it inside the greenhouse. Most dwarfs are still tall my dwarf namwa get 13'+ and size isn't counting the leaves. Especially close to bloom the leaves stick almost straight up. VC almost clokes right before a flag pops out. Dwarf is just a mutation. Is a person with dwarfism the same type human as his 7' basketball playing brother. YES it's a mutation. If he has children there is a chance it will also have dwarfism and so on. Same way bananas were breed for dwarf.

Next your "short cycle truly tiny" is a cavendish. It is mutated even further (rumor has it with radiation to force the mutations) they are very hard to make fruit in our area and I'm talking about Gran Nain the #1 selection for commercial growers to sell fruit. I have owned Truly Tiny (from TC) got it from Florida hills nursery 4 years ago. It has never fruited. I overwintered inside the first winter. The 2nd winter I covered it. Third year was last winter I covered it (didn't get below 30F). Gave up and didn't cover this winter and it finally died to the ground. I'm talking the same plant. Same pstem! Not pups. It never fruited. I've talked to several people who's never fruited also. Just giving my history on the plant. I hope yours does great. They look very cool when they make tiny bananas. I've seen several pictures so they do make. Mine just never did.

The Kiddy Banana you see in stores is Musa Nino. I have that variety. It's a great little sweet banana. Not SDC or TT. Just making sure nobody gets confused.

The only short cycle I can verify is Veinte Cohol. My patupi froze with a flower out the top. Tigua didn't make it either. Monthan is still small. Glui Kui I just received and am excited to see how fast it is. Also have other ones USDA shows as faster than others I will know more this year.

Please try not to confuse new members with totally incorrect information. It is very hard getting into bananas and this is a great info source. Make sure you have at least tested what your saying before suggesting it to new members.

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Gabe15

There's a lot I could comment on here, but I just want to point out one important thing that stands out to me.

Tissue cultured plants do have the potential to fruit quicker and yield more than conventional field-dug suckers, but it is not inherent to them being tissue cultured plants.

The reason they can fruit quicker is because they are already rooted upon planting in the field, and so begin foliar growth immediately, whereas a recently separated sucker will have a significant latent period of root establishment required before foliar growth resumes which can be (in my experience) anywhere from 1 to 3 months depending on a variety of factors. You can separate a sucker and pot and put it in the nursery for awhile and let it grow roots and begin foliar growth again, and then when you plant it in the field from that date the effect is the same as if it were a tissue cultured plant.

Additionally for suckers, being separated from established mats in the field, also have a much higher chance of harboring pests and diseases (particularly nematodes) which can put strain onto the newly establishing plants if present, thus potentially delaying fruiting reducing yield. Tissue cultured plants are generally screened for viruses, and then grown in sterile conditions and kept in a (hopefully) clean nursery situation, and so the plants start off clean. Again like with the rooting situation detailed above, if you have a completely clean (and rooted) sucker, it will behave the same in the field as a tissue cultured plant of similar physiological maturity.

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Tytaylor77

I totally agree Gabe. The rerooting does take time sometimes. On average Using my methods I normally get new leaf growth around 2 weeks. Once in awhile you get a stubborn one that takes a month. After that mat/plant has been established however the ratoon will produce how much faster than a new TC? On average as a guess would you say? There is no comparison to new TC.

I didn't want any confusion. Edwmax was suggesting to dig up the corms at the end of the year and replace them with new TC plants next year. That's like starting over every year.

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Gabe15

The ratoon shoot would probably be faster than a sucker planted, but it's hard to compare to a non-specified tissue culture plant as the plant sizes can vary widely. Counting time to fruiting from planting is difficult to predict exactly when considering different sizes of starter plants.

As a thought experiment, consider if a plant is growing in the nursery for 3 months and then planted in the ground and only takes 7 months to fruit. That is fast compared to 10 months for a new sucker on a mat in the field, but then again you aren't counting the 3 months spent in the nursery, so in reality they are equal. Alternatively, a sucker which is separated from the mat and transplanted when it has already been growing for 3 months would also see a reduced time to fruiting.

A new tissue culture plant can be very fast, but comparing their physiological age to a given sucker can be difficult.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

JP

Rooting in coarse sand works way faster. And better too. I grow in pots though.