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Reminosys · 04-18-2023, 04:29 PM

Hi everyone, finally decided to crawl out of the woodwork to try and contribute something of value to the research of bananas.

I noticed a discrepancy while doing a bit of my own digging on traditional Hawai'ian bananas, and wanted to get more eyes on it.

From the 2011 book by Dr. Kepler, they provide the descriptor of Ha'a as, "Heavily black-streaked" (p.87) while citing MacCaughey. However, MacCaughey's description is that, "The stem is light green with numerous longitudinal blackish streaks" (p.3). More important perhaps is the descriptor for Lele, where MacCaughey states, "The stem is blacker than that of the Ha'a" (p.5). An article by Rock predating MacCaughey's work corroborates this, with Ha'a having a "stem light green with black streaks" (p.17) and Lele having a "stem blacker than in the Haa" (p.17).

Separately, the height of Ha'a is inconsistently described: Rock and MacCaughey describing them as 6-8 feet high, Handy describing it as "taller than the introduced 'Chinese banana'" (p.175), and Kepler suggesting a 3-5 ft trunk based on MacCaughey's description (p.87). All of these in aggregate hopefully provide a better understanding on the height of Ha'a.

I should stress that the purpose of this thread is not to discredit the work of art that is Dr. Kepler and Rust's book. Their book is what inspired me to begin looking deeper into traditional Hawai'ian banana cultivars. If anyone is able to get me in contact with them, I'd like to know their thoughts on the above info. I think that their entry for Ha'a may have been misdirected, as their holotype specimen is only known from a singular photo in less than ideal conditions for photography.

I wanted to have other people critically think and provide their thoughts, as I've been mentally circling for months on this now. I understand it's a bit strange for a new person to come swinging out of the ether with this, so please don't take my word for it and have a look at the sources for yourselves.

Sources (links provided for open source documents):
Rock, J. F., 1913. List of Hawaiian Names of Plants.
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/6104169.pdf

MacCaughey, V., 1918. The Native Bananas of the Hawaiian Islands.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/43477609

Handy, E. S. C., 1940. The Hawaiian Planter Volume I. Bernice P. Bishop Museum Bulletin 161.
https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.3901...8884919896-189

Kepler, A. K. & Rust, F. G., 2011. The world of Bananas In Hawai'i: Then and Now

04-18-2023, 04:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
Reminosys Join Date: Nov 2022 Posts: 84 BananaBucks : 3,354 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 125 Times in 48 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Redefining Iholena Ha'a descriptors Hi everyone, finally decided to crawl out of the woodwork to try and contribute something of value to the research of bananas. I noticed a discrepancy while doing a bit of my own digging on traditional Hawai'ian bananas, and wanted to get more eyes on it. From the 2011 book by Dr. Kepler, they provide the descriptor of Ha'a as, "Heavily black-streaked" (p.87) while citing MacCaughey. However, MacCaughey's description is that, "The stem is light green with numerous longitudinal blackish streaks" (p.3). More important perhaps is the descriptor for Lele, where MacCaughey states, "The stem is blacker than that of the Ha'a" (p.5). An article by Rock predating MacCaughey's work corroborates this, with Ha'a having a "stem light green with black streaks" (p.17) and Lele having a "stem blacker than in the Haa" (p.17). Separately, the height of Ha'a is inconsistently described: Rock and MacCaughey describing them as 6-8 feet high, Handy describing it as "taller than the introduced 'Chinese banana'" (p.175), and Kepler suggesting a 3-5 ft trunk based on MacCaughey's description (p.87). All of these in aggregate hopefully provide a better understanding on the height of Ha'a. I should stress that the purpose of this thread is not to discredit the work of art that is Dr. Kepler and Rust's book. Their book is what inspired me to begin looking deeper into traditional Hawai'ian banana cultivars. If anyone is able to get me in contact with them, I'd like to know their thoughts on the above info. I think that their entry for Ha'a may have been misdirected, as their holotype specimen is only known from a singular photo in less than ideal conditions for photography. I wanted to have other people critically think and provide their thoughts, as I've been mentally circling for months on this now. I understand it's a bit strange for a new person to come swinging out of the ether with this, so please don't take my word for it and have a look at the sources for yourselves. Sources (links provided for open source documents): Rock, J. F., 1913. List of Hawaiian Names of Plants. https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/6104169.pdf MacCaughey, V., 1918. The Native Bananas of the Hawaiian Islands. https://www.jstor.org/stable/43477609 Handy, E. S. C., 1940. The Hawaiian Planter Volume I. Bernice P. Bishop Museum Bulletin 161. https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.3901...8884919896-189 Kepler, A. K. & Rust, F. G., 2011. The world of Bananas In Hawai'i: Then and Now __________________ Aspiring botanist \| Trash horticulturist I like to learn and teach about plants, but can't grow them well. Yet.