Bananas.org - View Single Post

Gabe15 · 11-26-2010, 08:16 PM

They did not grow because they were not pollinated. Edible seedless bananas result from two separate events, one being the failure of fertilization (derived from many mechanisms) which results in lack of seed, and the second is parthenocarpy which results in growth and development of the fruit independent of fertilization.

In your experiment, there was no fertilization so of course there are no seeds. But the reason they didn't is because they are not parthenocarpic. Although you applied hormone to the exterior of the fruit, and it may have some type of effect on fruit growth, it is not a mimic of what happens during parthenocarpy and so cannot be regarded as equivalent.

From the progress of the small experiments you have performed though, we can begin to infer some important things. More plants will need to fruit and be observed to confirm these observations, but this is the picture that is starting to form.

1. It is fertile and will set seeds when pollinated.

2. 'Helen's Hybrid' is not an edible banana. It is not parthenocarpic, it requires fertilization and seed development for fruit to develop.

3. Whether or not there really was an edible (parthenocarpic) cultivar involved in it's origins does not matter in terms of edibility, as it does not seem to be parthenocarpic.

4. 'Helen's Hybrid' is much closer to a wild banana than any domesticated edible cultivar. It may even be a wild species.

There are still some questions regarding whether or not it is even a hybrid or not. From the very beginning since these seeds started coming onto the market, I was very doubtful they were an "edible, cold hardy banana you can grow from seed". These things just don't add up. For a banana to be able to be grown from seed easily almost automatically discounts it from being edible (parthenocarpic). The situation where you could really have an edible banana that you could grow seeds true to type would require a self-compatible, fertile, parthenocarpic plant. However, this is very rare and in order to end up with something like this, someone would have to add deliberately worked for a rather long time on actually breeding it, which is highly unlikely and has never been mentioned in it's (already weak) background information. Additionally, the word "hybrid" is thrown around a lot and used when it ought not to be used, as is the case of the Cavendish banana 'Williams' which also goes by the name 'Williams Hybrid' even though there is nothing justifiably "hybrid" about it.

11-26-2010, 08:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,504,497 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2 Times Was Thanked 8,246 Times in 2,201 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: The seedless fruits of Helen's hybrid They did not grow because they were not pollinated. Edible seedless bananas result from two separate events, one being the failure of fertilization (derived from many mechanisms) which results in lack of seed, and the second is parthenocarpy which results in growth and development of the fruit independent of fertilization. In your experiment, there was no fertilization so of course there are no seeds. But the reason they didn't is because they are not parthenocarpic. Although you applied hormone to the exterior of the fruit, and it may have some type of effect on fruit growth, it is not a mimic of what happens during parthenocarpy and so cannot be regarded as equivalent. From the progress of the small experiments you have performed though, we can begin to infer some important things. More plants will need to fruit and be observed to confirm these observations, but this is the picture that is starting to form. 1. It is fertile and will set seeds when pollinated. 2. 'Helen's Hybrid' is not an edible banana. It is not parthenocarpic, it requires fertilization and seed development for fruit to develop. 3. Whether or not there really was an edible (parthenocarpic) cultivar involved in it's origins does not matter in terms of edibility, as it does not seem to be parthenocarpic. 4. 'Helen's Hybrid' is much closer to a wild banana than any domesticated edible cultivar. It may even be a wild species. There are still some questions regarding whether or not it is even a hybrid or not. From the very beginning since these seeds started coming onto the market, I was very doubtful they were an "edible, cold hardy banana you can grow from seed". These things just don't add up. For a banana to be able to be grown from seed easily almost automatically discounts it from being edible (parthenocarpic). The situation where you could really have an edible banana that you could grow seeds true to type would require a self-compatible, fertile, parthenocarpic plant. However, this is very rare and in order to end up with something like this, someone would have to add deliberately worked for a rather long time on actually breeding it, which is highly unlikely and has never been mentioned in it's (already weak) background information. Additionally, the word "hybrid" is thrown around a lot and used when it ought not to be used, as is the case of the Cavendish banana 'Williams' which also goes by the name 'Williams Hybrid' even though there is nothing justifiably "hybrid" about it. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.