Sharonp1953

Yes, that can happen, and of course with uncalibrated measuring it can be out. But we have a shocking situation here right now with a government that is rabidly denying any responsibility to the environment, from not enforcing protection orders (from Australian courts) against Japanese Whaling operations in the Great Southern Ocean, to allowing dredging and dumping of dredged material close to the Great Barrier Reef, to requesting the removal of ancient Tasmanian forests from the World Heritage list so they can be logged, to denying any link between the use of coal, coal seam gas, uranium etc. and global pollution problems. We have seen huge rises in temperatures here over the past 5 years, and we genuinely face a future where we may be unable to stay in the area in the longer term. This summer I have lost over 95% of my food crops due to extreme heat and drought. The government is denying climate change, however it is caused, and we are currently living with temperatures that are commonly 7-10 degrees above those of 10 years ago. Now, oddly enough, official temperature readings recently are 7-10 degrees below those of hundreds of residents living in the area! Odd?

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Funkthulhu

POKE THE BEAR!!!

I could eat vegan, drive a home-built electric car, live off the grid, grow my own food, poop solar panels, etc. etc. etc.

or, I could choose to have just 1 less kid (or none!) and then I couldn't consume enough in my lifetime to use all the CO2 that line of descendants won't.

Everybody is so worried about what they are or aren't doing to slow down or stop Global Warming right now, when the facts of the scales of multiplying are seldom addressed.

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"Ph'nglui musaglw'nanna Funkthulhu R'Omahaea wgah'basjoo fhtagn"
"In his house at Omaha, dread Funkthulhu plants bananas."

Kat2

I was raised in a family of 8 in MD on well and septic; my father grew up on a farm in upstate NY with a spring. We were taught to conserve everything and I continue to do so. I have 1 brother; the rest of the girls, before puberty, shared baths that were weekly. Dad doled out TP and was adamant about how many squares you got. Flushing went by that saying. (Septic never had to be pumped--ever.)

I was trained to turn off lights; I never saw a 100 watt bulb until I was an adult. We had no AC; Dad, a physicist, positioned a fan in their room to pull air through the entire house. Congress takes their vacation in August for a reason: DC is stifling that month and July is nearly as bad. We survived; obviously nobody closed their doors. Dad was in control of the heat thermostat; long before automatic set back ones our house had him to do it. (We learned to never go potty at night or risk freezing to death during winter.) Gas was plentiful then; we combined trips. We had 1 new car only.

I don't take long showers or drive much; when I lived where there was public transportation I took it. I turn off lights; I take very short showers. Only things I've added are recycling and purchasing used goods besides cars whenever possible. BTW, I produced only 1 child who met a young lady who adores thrift stores and saving money. He was raised with my ideas so he considered her quite normal.

BTW, we were not poor by any means--my parents did not believe in waste.

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vitin6039

In honor to the late George Carlin and I quote:

"The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles … hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages … And we think some plastic bags and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet isn’t going anywhere. WE are!

We’re going away. Pack your ****, folks. We’re going away. And we won’t leave much of a trace, either. Maybe a little Styrofoam … The planet’ll be here and we’ll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet’ll shake us off like a bad case of fleas.

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What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have never been discovered.

momoese

I love George and if this was just about the planet this would be great, but it's not. The question is how we the human race can keep this planet, the only one we have to live on, in a hospitable condition so we (the human race) can continue to survive.

caliboy1994

I agree. Give it a few million years of us being gone, and Earth will recover no matter what. But when we mess with its natural balance now, what we are really jeopardizing is our own survival.

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~ Masanobu Fukuoka

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designshark

The surface temp has raised what.05 degree in the past 20 years? That means what? I think we the human race have come a long way! We have been improving our lives and practically everything around us. I call it progress. God gave us this earth to use and populate. We should use mother earth in a conservative manner and realize not everyone plays fair.

caliboy1994

We have come very far since the birth of our civilization in many ways, and especially in the past century. There's no arguing that. But 0.5 degrees Celsius (not Fahrenheit) is actually a lot when you take into account the effects that it can have on our planet's climate system. And I think the grand total now since the onset of the Industrial Era is about double that. Yes, we need to use our planet's resources more sustainably. No, we cannot just sit idly by when there are people who are doing things like destroying our forests for profit or making money off of fuels that are causing the disruption of our planet's climate. In order to ensure our survival, we cannot allow people to use our planet's resources unsustainably, that's the bottom line.

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"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
~ Masanobu Fukuoka

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Yug

Still beating this dead horse? We have had temp increases in the far past, too. I wonder what those were from? Also, what makes you so sure that man should survive if man is the cause of problems? Let the planet do what it will do, and perhaps man survives, perhaps not. Besides, unless India and commie China stop what they are doing, you are wasting your time, and punishing one of the few industrialized nations that actually cares. When the 'don't-give-a-damn' nations take over, they dictate terms to us, and all you (and people that think like you) have done is waste your time, and ruin our nation & livlihood. Think the issue through to the end, and you'll see. Until you and the other 'chicken-little's' can compel all nations to do something about it - all you are doing is hurting us. (if we are stupid enough to buy into it) Why do you hate the U.S. so much?

Funkthulhu

I hope that clears some of that up....
Also, watch this: Global Warming and the Polar Vortex - YouTube
It explains A LOT, and briefly.

Whee!

__________________
"Ph'nglui musaglw'nanna Funkthulhu R'Omahaea wgah'basjoo fhtagn"
"In his house at Omaha, dread Funkthulhu plants bananas."

caliboy1994

Meanwhile, in Australia....

Boiling over: Extreme heat causes stir at Australian Open

__________________
"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
~ Masanobu Fukuoka

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parillo12

Woow, a little to much to read but very interesting.

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.


On a traffic light green means go and yellow means yield, but on a banana it's just the opposite. Green means hold on, yellow means go ahead, and red means where the hell did you get that banana at...

caliboy1994

I have an idea, Yug. Let's play a logic game. So let's assume for a moment that climate change/global warming isn't really happening for whatever reason. And that we take no action. What happens then? Nothing. Everything is the same. Now let's assume that it is not happening and we DO take action. The world economy suffers a bit because of our clamping down on fossil fuels. Developing nations suffer particularly, and countries such as the United States and China who rely heavily on fossil fuels might have recessions due to rapid shifts in the energy economy. But eventually everything turns out fine within a few decades.

Now, let's assume that it IS happening. And we take action. We successfully mitigate the crisis. A few economic setbacks, pretty much the same as stated above, and the damage done so far by climate change has been minimized. Now, let's assume that it is happening and we take NO action. Worldwide economic collapse, sea level rise, mass extinction, and perhaps the collapse of civilization altogether in some areas of the globe that are more vulnerable to climate disruption. Perhaps a billion or so people die within a few decades, and a billion or so more are displaced and become climate refugees. Resource wars, famine, mass migration, and the collapse of many countries' political, social, and economic systems becomes the new norm. This could all potentially happen in this last scenario, it is entirely possible.

Let's make another assumption. Assume that we have no way of knowing that climate change/global warming is actually happening. As many distinguished "climate skeptics" argue, the evidence is inconclusive. Now, we have to pick a path to take given the four scenarios above. Take no action, or do something about it. Given the benefits and consequences of each potential scenario, what do you think is the best course of action?

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"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
~ Masanobu Fukuoka

Find me on linktree here as Solarpunk Farmer:
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harveyc

Andreas, what do you mean by "suffering a bit"?

Give this a try, go without using any fossil fuels for the next week and let us know how the week has gone.

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designshark

I'm not convinced there is a crises with climate change/global warming or what ever else they're going to call it tomorrow. The ice age had to melt some how and I don't think it was burning of fossil fuels. How about the great biblical flood? Where did all the water go? Record keeping is much more accurate than it was say 10, 20 or 50 years ago. Too many people are getting way too wee wee'd up over all this and the policies in place and still coming are going to crush the human race way sooner that an Australian heat wave, a hurricane in New Jersey or tornados in Oklahoma. None of these events are new, they are exploited and politicized to try and convince many people there is a problem and we need to pay. Pay who? Who gains by all this skewed science? Sure isn't me or you. Do you think Mother Earth is going to send you a thank you card if you lower her by half a degree? Maybe, just maybe there is nothing we have done to cause climate change (changes everyday at my house) and the earth will correct herself over time. Now that's a concept!

caliboy1994

I was assuming that the transition to a non-fossil fuel economy would take years or decades. This is not about just suddenly stopping using fossil fuels, that would wreck the entire world economy. If it was done over a period of years, yes, there could be a recession. That's what I meant. Given the technology we have now, it's entirely possible for all developed nations to ditch fossil fuels completely. In fact, in much of the developed world, I'm sure if we eliminated all fossil fuel subsidies within a few years solar would outcompete coal and oil on the market. Give it a few more years and the same thing goes for natural gas. Asking me to ditch fossil fuels for a week is a red herring.

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"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
~ Masanobu Fukuoka

Find me on linktree here as Solarpunk Farmer:
https://linktr.ee/solarpunkfarmer

caliboy1994

You are right. The earth will correct itself overtime if we stop adding greenhouse gases to it on a massive scale.

__________________
"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
~ Masanobu Fukuoka

Find me on linktree here as Solarpunk Farmer:
https://linktr.ee/solarpunkfarmer

sunfish

Actions speak louder than words

harveyc

It wasn't a red herring. You didn't specify what you meant. I have yet to see any plan to convert completely away from fossil fuels. For one thing, I've not seen an solution for replacing fossil fuels for shipping, rail, long haul trucks, or even high power construction and farm machinery.

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caliboy1994

Actually, I did specify. And I quote:

And when it comes to transportation, I think what we should be more focused on is getting our food locally. Right now our food is shipped thousands of miles across the country just to end up on your shelf. Not only is this inefficient, it creates emissions and requires fossil fuel, at least as of now. And I can imagine electric construction and farm equipment coming on the market as our ability to charge and release electricity increases. And of course there is the possibility of thorium-based nuclear, which has the potential to change everything and power the entire country for thousands of years to come. I don't think we need to eliminate fossil fuels entirely either. They will still have their niche uses. We just shouldn't be using them as our main source of power generation and transportation.

__________________
"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
~ Masanobu Fukuoka

Find me on linktree here as Solarpunk Farmer:
https://linktr.ee/solarpunkfarmer