jeffreyp

http://www.petitionproject.org/gw_ar...ew_OISM150.pdf


a very good read...

turtile

The whole climate change hoax is nothing but a political campaign to change public opinion before the United Nations' discussion on climate change.

United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change

At the same time, every article posted on here that tries to disprove global warming does the same tricks when they display their "data". Of course no one realizes this fact.

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ewitte

I heard before that if enough ice melts somewhere (not sure where) it would actually trigger an Ice Age not warming. I'm also recalling off of memory the warm periods usually do not last that long.

damaclese

i was waiting for some one to bring this up. it could happen then again there mite be mitigating factors that offset the cooling affects of slower water circulation. like rising air temperatures. also one could see and increase temperatures in the tropics. Florida for example mite become a zone 11 rain Forest.
thats just hypothetical. if enough fresh water from melting ice caps enters the Atlantic and reduce the over all salinity significantly enough to decrease the density of of the sea to the point that cooling waters do not drop in to the mid Atlantic trench and flow back to the equator one could see sum significant changes. there is historical data to support this having happened in the past some 1280 years ago and then again 500 years ago. their was enough notation in many of the churches rectory records across England to put together a pretty good picture of a vary severe cold period. in that time frame along with data about preceding warm period that mite suggest that as some point prier to 500 years ago the poler ice caps did melt significantly enough to hasten a colossal cold period. its affects lasted for about 200 years. although the worst summers where only about 20 to 30 years out. famine was drastic and wide spread across Europe. this could have been a significant contributer to prolonging the effects of the Plague. the last magre out brake was in the mid 14 century and lasted about 60 years at its high point. but affects were seen for about 100 years. with periodic re out brakes correlating to severe cold spells across Europe.
fascinating don't you think? it really reinforces how climate affects humans.

but there are some significant differences in todays world verses the plant of 500 years ago. we have the ability to move food around they didn't. we can farm were its warm they couldn't. wile Europe was cold we don't know what the rest of the planet was like as there are no records of weather patterns to read like there were in england and France as well as Italy. so it mite not be all domes day sanoreos. wile Europe mite get pretty cold there could be cold reagons warming to the point were farming is possible. we just dont have enoghe info to know for sure

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Richard

The only companies and individuals currently making significant income on this subject are those in the business of selling controversy; i.e., tabloid journalism (in print and on network television) and internet bloggers paid by a political action committee.

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jeffreyp

very funny richard.. (; Where would all these tabloids be without manbearpig?


South Park Episode Player - ManBearPig


Thank you Al Gore you are super awesome! Excelsior!!

Richard

Thanks! Even without parity it's an excellent parody!

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sbl

You are correct. When enough ice melts, seawater will become less dense and we will no longer create the deep-water seawater that drives the ocean circulation system. That is already beginning to happen as is evidenced by the increasing frequency of El Nino. Interglacial periods typically last 10 -15k yrs--we are somewhere around 12-13k into the current interglacial period. It is the warming that leads to the ice melt and then the shut-down of the circulation system that is believed to have driven the glacial/interglacial cycles over the past 600k yrs. The warming starts as a result of a combination of changes in our orbital path and the wobble in our axis, CO2 released naturally in the warming process then enhances and extends the warming, but now we are way beyond the historical CO2 concentrations.


I think that once the ocean circulation system shuts down, there will be some rapid climate change, initially causing a rapid warming, followed by increased snowfall that will start a glacial cycle.

Edit, BTW it is the North Atlantic that is the source of Deep-Water formation, so ice melt or decrease in formation of Ice in the North Atlantic is what will slow or stop the ocean circulation system.

harveyc

Billions are being made by researchers. House appropriates increased funding for climate research (posting from Climate Science Watch)

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djmb74

Thanks harvery I was perplexed why Richard didn't think people are making money off of it...

Greed is most peoples main motivator! Even scientists!

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sbl

Wow! Imagine that scientist don't work for free! After spending tens of thousands of dolllars of their own on their education, they actually expect to get paid!

I for one think that the money our government spends on scientific research is some of the best spent money they spend. Where would we be without science? Some of the best discoveries happen when we are trying to do something else--look at all of the technology that came out of the mission to put a man on the moon.

Science is a process of gathering data, proposing theories and testing them. There are often more than one way of interpreting the data, and even when we arrive at what appears to be a sound conclusion, we are always questioning them. Sometimes, we find that conclusions we reached long ago are not correct, or at least don't apply to all situations. Debate amoung scientist is healthy, but it is often misunderstood by non-scientist.

harveyc

sbl, nobody said scientists shouldn't get paid. But to say nobody is making money off of the research is false.

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Richard

No one has made such a statement here. Further, the percentage of money being spent on "global climate change research" is very small compared to the total amount of federal dollars spent on research.

When it comes to marketing to pop culture: controversy sells.

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jeffreyp

Now it seems very suspicious why such common established knowledge wasn't applied to humans, but for 50 years, the cure for gastric ulcers in animals was a spercific antibiotic and peptobismol. They knew in the veterinary industry that ulcers in pigs were caused by a bacteria called helicobacterpilory and of course they couldn't get one of these high-prices stomach surgeons from Mayo Clinic, (in fact, they used to yell, "Hold the Mayo" when they would say stuff like that), and otherwise your pork chops would be $275 a pound to pay for that kind of surgery. They learned that with a trace mineral called bismuth and the tetracycline antibiotic that they could prevent and cure those stomach ulcers in pigs without surgery. And so that's what they veterinary industry did. Costs $5 to cure a pig of stomach ulcers with bismuth, a trace mineral, and tetracycline. The pharmaceutical industry, scientists withheld this information only so they could make money on antacids, mostly by expensive prescription medications. Scientists knew what caused ulcers in farm animals knowing the cure was antibiotics and pepto bismol.

I suspect the same with HIV/AIDS. There's also quite a bit of literature on selenium, and interestingly there are trials being done by a PHD doctor out of Canada (Dr. Harold Foster) on using selenium and select amino acids. These form a substance in the body called glutathione peroxidase. The theory goes the entire glutathione reductase system collapses when certain persistant viruses that encode for glutathione come into the picture. When the body senses less selenium, cysteine, glutamine and tryptophan it limits white blood cell production. It's an involved topic but google harald foster and what really causes aids. Or google cal crilly hiv AIDS - Retrovirus Expression Regulated by Methylation? - Health Supreme

What does this all have to do with climate change? I suppose other members on the board could rattle off a dozen other examples but mine are just a couple examples of how scientists will abuse the system for their own financial means.

A Natural Cure for HIV, AIDS


Foster, H.D. (2000). Aids and the “selenium-CD4T cell tailspin”: The geography of a pandemic. Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, 209, 94-99.

sbl

Isn't getting paid making money?

Richard

In the case of ulcers, I believe you are referring to corporations and not researchers themselves. I agree that there are greedy researchers. However, the conspiracy theory being proposed in this thread seems pretty far-fetched.

More interesting, there are political action committees pouring millions of dollars monthly into paid internet bloggers. The general tactic is divide-and-conquer with controversy and hopefully align opinions with current advertising of the political party. If you want to join in the fun, just click on one of the ads you see for "mom makes 1,000's per month at home on computer". I wouldn't be surprised if we have some on this site.

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harveyc

Significant income? Richard, some researchers make their entire livelihood on GCC research. This certainly leads to the potential for biased research reports to continue to justify their employment. Science is far from pure. When funding is dictated on the perceived importance of something or winning favors by oil companies, etc., the information is often skewed one way or the other.

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harveyc

Exactly, making significant money, as a matter of fact.

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Richard

Of the 120 climatologists over at the Scripps Institute, 2 are full time on GCC and about a dozen are full time on global warming -- a different topic.

One way to get your way with an under-educated population is to spread fear and contempt about academia. Mao was very good at this.

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harveyc

What about NASA or other agencies cited in the funding article above.

While you seem to hold blogs in disdain, there is often valuable information in them. If it wasn't for these blogs, we wouldn't know that NASA had repeated Russia's September 2008 data for October 2008. Or that many sensors have been located through the world in some very poor locations to be considered meaningful. But I guess we should all enjoy being treated like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed...whatever.

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