Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… - Page 2

Richard · 03-18-2012, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobG7aChattTN

I've heard that Poncirus trifoliata can form fruits in 4 years from seed and that some Grapefruits can take 12 years to fruit. I have some Poncirus trifoliata 'Flying Dragon' that did not fruit (or bloom) after maybe 6 years. I dug them up and then decided not to replant them so who knows when they would have formed fruit.

Yes, you can get a few fruits from Flying Dragon (and other small citrus) in 3 years but it will take longer to get a handful and fruits with the characteristic taste of the plant. I'm surprised to hear of anyone growing Flying Dragon for the fruit. I've yet to hear of anyone who likes to eat them. But go ahead ... surprise me!

Tony (sunfish) makes the excellent point that Flying Dragon is almost exclusively cultivated as a root stock. Certainly if I had Flying Dragon seedlings I'd graft them over with something like Sweet Lemon or something else that benefits from a non-aggressive root stock.

In breeding programs, grapefruit and other large citrus have a 10 year cycle: this is from budset on the host plant to an offspring that is mature enough to produce regular crops and demonstrate the characteristics of interest in the breeding program.

sunfish · 03-22-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Yes, you can get a few fruits from Flying Dragon (and other small citrus) in 3 years but it will take longer to get a handful and fruits with the characteristic taste of the plant. I'm surprised to hear of anyone growing Flying Dragon for the fruit. I've yet to hear of anyone who likes to eat them. But go ahead ... surprise me!

Tony (sunfish) makes the excellent point that Flying Dragon is almost exclusively cultivated as a root stock. Certainly if I had Flying Dragon seedlings I'd graft them over with something like Sweet Lemon or something else that benefits from a non-aggressive root stock.

In breeding programs, grapefruit and other large citrus have a 10 year cycle: this is from budset on the host plant to an offspring that is mature enough to produce regular crops and demonstrate the characteristics of interest in the breeding program.

Cool

RobG7aChattTN · 03-22-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Yes, you can get a few fruits from Flying Dragon (and other small citrus) in 3 years but it will take longer to get a handful and fruits with the characteristic taste of the plant. I'm surprised to hear of anyone growing Flying Dragon for the fruit. I've yet to hear of anyone who likes to eat them. But go ahead ... surprise me!

Oh, I wouldn't eat Poncirus fruit. I want it to fruit for purely ornamental reasons. Flying Dragon gets a very unusual form as well and the spines are so large that they are ornamental as well. Still, after digging mine up to move then I couldn't quite figure out where I wanted them and just threw them out. I still have a few in pots, but the ones in the ground were getting a nice size...just not really very "citrusy".

RobG7aChattTN · 03-22-2012, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunfish

Why not graft them ?

I thought about it, but I have some smaller ones in pots that would be easier to work with. I've never been successful with grafting and it certainly is something I need to work on...but these vicious 'Flying Dragons' were just too big and spiny and would have also needed big pots just for the roots. I probably should have cut them short and potted them and then thought about grafting, but strait Poncirus might be a better root stock because 'Flying Dragon' is dwarfing.

john_ny · 03-22-2012, 10:28 AM

Before the development of Flying Dragon, regular P. trifoliata was used as a dwarfing rootstock.

Richard · 03-23-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john_ny

Before the development of Flying Dragon, regular P. trifoliata was used as a dwarfing rootstock.

Yes, Poncirus sp. were used as dwarfing rootstock on aggressive citrus such as Lemon and Grapefruit since at least the 1940's in southern California commercial groves.

Olafhenny · 03-23-2012, 05:47 PM

A couple more pictures of the Fortunella japonica (Thunberg) Swingle

This is the tallest and probably oldest potted Quất, I have seen. It is about 6' from
soil to top. Actually I have not seen any, which were not potted

Back down in the south, I saw one with the old fruit finally gone and new fruit developing.
Well, we are talking Saigon here and the city air is not the cleanest

Richard · 03-24-2012, 01:09 AM

So in the photo with the motorcycles, the size of the fruits range from an inch to 1.25 inches?

Olafhenny · 03-24-2012, 02:35 AM

Yes, Richard, that is about right. The largest ones may reach about 1 1/2 in dia.

lkailburn · 03-24-2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olafhenny

[size="3"]

That is the coolest looking potted citrus I have ever seen!

-Luke

passaflora · 04-06-2012, 12:59 AM

I have a friend who told me she had this ornamental orange with insipid tasting fruit. So I took a look at it and it looks to me like the Flying Dragon root stock took over and it is a Flying Dragon tree now, full of long thorns, trifoliate leaves and lots of ugly looking fruit. and yes I tried them they taste pretty bad but you might be able to make a orange aid from them??

Olafhenny · 05-03-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by passaflora

I have a friend who told me she had this ornamental orange with insipid tasting fruit. So I took a look at it and it looks to me like the Flying Dragon root stock took over and it is a Flying Dragon tree now, full of long thorns, trifoliate leaves and lots of ugly looking fruit. and yes I tried them they taste pretty bad but you might be able to make a orange aid from them??

Well, these ornamental Quất are pretty tasty, that is how I managed to "harvest" over 200
seeds, while getting only an average of about three seeds/fruit.

Olafhenny · 05-03-2012, 02:26 PM

After 7 weeks finally some signs of life

Well, the ‘signs of life’ occurred about 5 or 6 days earlier, but I wanted to make sure, that I was not
fooled again.

I am still puzzled, how out of this convoluted mess a respectable citrus tree can emerge.

That is one out of the four, which I had soaked on March 15 and planted on March 16 in peat moss
pots. Later, following advice, I transferred 2 of them into plastic bags with some moist peat moss.
Since I had to handle these bags for inspection (the peat moss caked around the seeds and made it
difficult to find them), the seeds tumbled around a lot. Since it occurred to me, that this could not
be good, I transferred the two survivors once again into little pots, covered them only very lightly
with peat moss and the whole thing with Saran Wrap, thus hopefully providing the same
humid environment as in a plastic bag.

That is also the method I am now using on the 5 (out of 6) survivors of the next badge. The high
mortality rate is mostly attributable to clumsy handling and inexperience on my part.

Olafhenny · 05-06-2012, 11:07 PM

Well, there is some order in that chaos after all.

It comes now much closer to my image of
a viable sprout.

As wee as this little citrus is (see penny), it was butting up against the saran wrap already.
So I removed the wrap for a somewhat less humid environment.

This is so far the only one of the first four seeds. Two were victims of my clumsiness. Once they
come close to sprouting these seeds are extremely tender. That is another reason, why I would
not use the plastic bag method again. The handling is just too rough on the tender seeds in the
pre-sprouting phase.

harveyc · 05-07-2012, 01:00 AM

I just came across this thread. If I understand it correctly, you imported citrus seeds into the USA from Vietnam and that is prohibited. I'm not going to take the time to search the APHIS information now because I've done it before and know it to be the case. In addition, there is more than a slight chance that you could have imported seeds that were carrying HLB disease. I suggest that you destroy them and ask anybody you have shared them with to do the same. This is serious and USDA officials will certainly come visit you if they get wind of this. I know someone who once imported palm seeds without a permit and the USDA officials that paid him a surprise visit was a scary experience for him.

EDIT: I just saw you're located in Canada so USDA definitely won't come visit you and I don't know what the Canadian regulations are in regards to importation of citrus seeds. There certainly isn't a citrus industry they're trying to protect. I just hope you didn't send any seeds into the USA.

cheson74 · 05-11-2012, 01:41 PM

My aunt from Pennsylvania (who is Vietnamese) grows the Quat in a pot. It's been growing now for at least 10 years. She brings it outside during the summer and indoors in the winter. It's nowhere as big as the potted Quat that was posted on this thread.

cheson74 · 05-11-2012, 01:51 PM

In regards to Harvey's post, he is correct about importation of seeds. See link below. There are a lot of countries listed and Vietnam is one of them.

Federal Register, Volume 75 Issue 65 (Tuesday, April 6, 2010)

Olafhenny · 05-15-2012, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheson74

My aunt from Pennsylvania (who is Vietnamese) grows the Quat in a pot. It's been growing now for at least 10 years. She brings it outside during the summer and indoors in the winter. It's nowhere as big as the potted Quat that was posted on this thread.

That large potted Quất is the largest and probably oldest I have encountered in three visits totaling
about 6 months, all including the Tet season, when the Quất are the most prominent.

One of the advantages is that it is so small, that you can do, what your aunt is doing and still have
the full display of fruit in a very small plant, which still fits into any home, even when it is quite
a few years old.

BTW, if you are interested in the plant yourself, you might want to ask Harveyc if it would be
okay if your aunt let you have some seeds from a tree, which has been in the States for more that
10 years.

harveyc · 05-15-2012, 01:08 AM

Unfortunately, no citrus are allowed into California without going through quarantine (after having an import permit). If there is sufficient demand for it, you might contact UC Riverside to see if they would be interested in importing a scion from PA. They typically clean up other diseases (not HLB) by propagating from very young tip growth where the diseases have not yet had time to develop yet. I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't been imported already as they have quite a few: UCR: Citrus Variety Collection

Richard · 05-15-2012, 01:30 AM

The "Marumi" kumquat is Fortunella japonica and widely available at California nurseries with large citrus collections, or even online from Four Winds Growers.

03-22-2012, 10:28 AM	#25 (permalink)
john_ny Member john_ny's Photo Gallery Location: Staten Island, NY - southernmost county in NY State. Find me on the map! Zone: USDA7- Sunset34 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,014 BananaBucks : 674,296 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,057 Times Was Thanked 2,284 Times in 832 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 37 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… Before the development of Flying Dragon, regular P. trifoliata was used as a dwarfing rootstock. __________________ John

03-23-2012, 05:47 PM	#27 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 259,925 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… A couple more pictures of the Fortunella japonica (Thunberg) Swingle This is the tallest and probably oldest potted Quất, I have seen. It is about 6' from soil to top. Actually I have not seen any, which were not potted Back down in the south, I saw one with the old fruit finally gone and new fruit developing. Well, we are talking Saigon here and the city air is not the cleanest __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

03-24-2012, 01:09 AM	#28 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 636,039 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… So in the photo with the motorcycles, the size of the fruits range from an inch to 1.25 inches? __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

03-24-2012, 02:35 AM	#29 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 259,925 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… Yes, Richard, that is about right. The largest ones may reach about 1 1/2 in dia. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

04-06-2012, 12:59 AM	#31 (permalink)
passaflora Location: San Dimas, CA Find me on the map! Zone: 8-10 Name: Nancy Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7 BananaBucks : 3,000 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… I have a friend who told me she had this ornamental orange with insipid tasting fruit. So I took a look at it and it looks to me like the Flying Dragon root stock took over and it is a Flying Dragon tree now, full of long thorns, trifoliate leaves and lots of ugly looking fruit. and yes I tried them they taste pretty bad but you might be able to make a orange aid from them??

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05-03-2012, 02:26 PM	#33 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 259,925 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… After 7 weeks finally some signs of life Well, the ‘signs of life’ occurred about 5 or 6 days earlier, but I wanted to make sure, that I was not fooled again. I am still puzzled, how out of this convoluted mess a respectable citrus tree can emerge. That is one out of the four, which I had soaked on March 15 and planted on March 16 in peat moss pots. Later, following advice, I transferred 2 of them into plastic bags with some moist peat moss. Since I had to handle these bags for inspection (the peat moss caked around the seeds and made it difficult to find them), the seeds tumbled around a lot. Since it occurred to me, that this could not be good, I transferred the two survivors once again into little pots, covered them only very lightly with peat moss and the whole thing with Saran Wrap, thus hopefully providing the same humid environment as in a plastic bag. That is also the method I am now using on the 5 (out of 6) survivors of the next badge. The high mortality rate is mostly attributable to clumsy handling and inexperience on my part. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

05-06-2012, 11:07 PM	#34 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 259,925 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… Well, there is some order in that chaos after all. It comes now much closer to my image of a viable sprout. As wee as this little citrus is (see penny), it was butting up against the saran wrap already. So I removed the wrap for a somewhat less humid environment. This is so far the only one of the first four seeds. Two were victims of my clumsiness. Once they come close to sprouting these seeds are extremely tender. That is another reason, why I would not use the plastic bag method again. The handling is just too rough on the tender seeds in the pre-sprouting phase. __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

05-07-2012, 01:00 AM	#35 (permalink)
harveyc Been nuts, gone bananas harveyc's Photo Gallery Location: Isleton, Calif Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Harvey Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 5,119 BananaBucks : 310,185 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 6,025 Times Was Thanked 4,460 Times in 1,896 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,785 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… I just came across this thread. If I understand it correctly, you imported citrus seeds into the USA from Vietnam and that is prohibited. I'm not going to take the time to search the APHIS information now because I've done it before and know it to be the case. In addition, there is more than a slight chance that you could have imported seeds that were carrying HLB disease. I suggest that you destroy them and ask anybody you have shared them with to do the same. This is serious and USDA officials will certainly come visit you if they get wind of this. I know someone who once imported palm seeds without a permit and the USDA officials that paid him a surprise visit was a scary experience for him. EDIT: I just saw you're located in Canada so USDA definitely won't come visit you and I don't know what the Canadian regulations are in regards to importation of citrus seeds. There certainly isn't a citrus industry they're trying to protect. I just hope you didn't send any seeds into the USA. __________________ Last edited by harveyc : 05-07-2012 at 01:23 AM.

05-11-2012, 01:41 PM	#36 (permalink)
cheson74 Aloha cheson74's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Zone: 12a Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 341 BananaBucks : 59,687 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 254 Times Was Thanked 491 Times in 145 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… My aunt from Pennsylvania (who is Vietnamese) grows the Quat in a pot. It's been growing now for at least 10 years. She brings it outside during the summer and indoors in the winter. It's nowhere as big as the potted Quat that was posted on this thread. __________________

05-11-2012, 01:51 PM	#37 (permalink)
cheson74 Aloha cheson74's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Zone: 12a Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 341 BananaBucks : 59,687 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 254 Times Was Thanked 491 Times in 145 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… In regards to Harvey's post, he is correct about importation of seeds. See link below. There are a lot of countries listed and Vietnam is one of them. Federal Register, Volume 75 Issue 65 (Tuesday, April 6, 2010) __________________

05-15-2012, 01:08 AM	#39 (permalink)
harveyc Been nuts, gone bananas harveyc's Photo Gallery Location: Isleton, Calif Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Harvey Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 5,119 BananaBucks : 310,185 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 6,025 Times Was Thanked 4,460 Times in 1,896 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,785 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… Unfortunately, no citrus are allowed into California without going through quarantine (after having an import permit). If there is sufficient demand for it, you might contact UC Riverside to see if they would be interested in importing a scion from PA. They typically clean up other diseases (not HLB) by propagating from very young tip growth where the diseases have not yet had time to develop yet. I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't been imported already as they have quite a few: UCR: Citrus Variety Collection __________________

05-15-2012, 01:30 AM	#40 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 636,039 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: Seeds for Quất, possibly the most attractive and hardy citrus… The "Marumi" kumquat is Fortunella japonica and widely available at California nurseries with large citrus collections, or even online from Four Winds Growers. __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

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