Richard

My Cherry Of The Rio Grande has put on about 4 feet since last June. It's now a little over 7 foot tall and flowering. I'm not sure which species I have! There are two listed in GRIN: Eugenia cerasiflora and Eugenia involucrata.

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sunfish

Beautiful

Richard

Ripening fruits. The plum colored one is ripe.

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Kat2

I was given a couple of fruits last summer but was not impressed; they tasted like cough syrup to me--bad cough syrup--which is why I didn't sav the seeds. Trying to push the zone and knowing that cherry trees will absolutely not produce here, I purchased (cheap) 6 Nanking cherry bushes. I raised them in MD. They're not for eating (well you can but they have huge honking pits) or pies but make delicious cordials and jam/jelly. Will they survive and thrive? We'll see. They did well in my very hot 7 or cool 8 in full sun so shading them here might could work.

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Richard

Must have been poorly grown, or picked unripe, etc.

BTW, Cherry Of The Rio Grande is not related to true cherries. It is in the Myrtle family from south America. True cherries are Prunus.

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Kat2

Oh, I know they're not real cherries; I have a feeling my little bush ones aren't either. The RGs I sampled were ripe--as ripe as they could be without falling off of their pits. It may have been a lessor tree because I believe it was grown from seed but those were absolutely horrid.

My sand cherries, should they live long enough to produce, are flavorful (or were in MD) but certainly not a real cherry. (Soak them whole in vodka and you end up with something very close to Cherry Haering/Herring.) If I win the lottery, I'm be buying Royal Lee and Minnie Royal trees and hoping that I get enough chill hours for them to set fruit. (And amping up my squirrel protection.) Until then I'll baby my "not the right zone" but very cheap bushes and buy Bings in the store when I need a cherry fix.

What I really want is one Mahleb tree. From what I've read the fruit is virtually worthless (which is why it's used as a rootstock) but the seeds, when ground, are a marvelous spice.

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Richard

Spice? Now you have my attention!!

Mahlab is an aromatic spice made from the seeds of a species of cherry, Prunus mahaleb ... (Wikipedia)

Prunus mahaleb ... (Germplasm Resources Information Network)

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Kat2

Yes, indeedy. Bake it into Choereg or Greek Easter bread and serve it to people. They will guess it's cinnamon but realize not quite. More depth with a very subtle but definite je ne sais quo. And it's not cheap--not here. Not sure how you harvest it but I suspect it's quite simple--take the flesh off and dry the seeds. I used to buy it in the DC area but people think I have 3 heads if I mention it in FL. But it and another are the most often rootstocks for cherry that I've seen. One man's trash...another woman's treasure.

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Richard

There are good instructions in the Wikipedia article.

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Kat2

Cracking makes sense; I could figure that out I think. I buy the insides whole and grind them when needed because keeping ground in the freezer means flavor loss. But are other cherries suitable for "spice"? And do they taste the same? (I have searched off and on for the answer but didn't find it.) My cherry bushes yielded pits covered by basically just a skin but when the whole fruit is steeped in vodka yielded a cherry almond cordial. Over the years I've made and partaken of many batches; I'm still alive.

My bushes are prunus tomentosa; Mahlebs are prunus mahaleb. Can they be interchanged? If so, I have some hard work keeping these puppies alive to bear and then a lot of baking to do. And I'm kicking myself for spitting gold into my garden....

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Richard

There are several Prunus species of cherries (and plums) on every continent. I know of 5 in the U.S. alone and there are numerous elsewhere. They vary widely. The seeds of some are mildly toxic due to some ecological condition in the geologic past. On top of that there are cultivars and hybrids that have been developed since antiquity. Interchangeable? About as much as an apricot and a nectarine.

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Kat2

Gee, thanks. I know soaking the whole fruits from my bushes in vodka doesn't kill you--quickly or maybe not at all. Any way if I can find out if my bush cherry seeds are toxic? Before I test them? On me?

My German friend who collected my unwanted apricots gladly ate the pits; she was thrilled to cut back my comfrey plants to the ground because she was into old world ways. (She grew an amazing fig from the seeds she saved from a dried one served on a plane in the 70s.) When we met she was in her 80s and her DH was in his 90s then but they were quite spry. Me? I used to nibble on feverfew to shed migraines--nibble being the operative word.

Or is there a source for a mahleb (yes, 1 or 2) seedling? This is really tasty stuff!

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Richard

You are closer to Europe than I.

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Kat2

What does Europe have to do with this? They're used in the Middle East. I raised these Yankee bush cherries in MD; I'm trying them here where I'm much nearer to Cuba than you are. So?

Seriously, is there any way to find out if seeds from my bush cherries are toxic? Using those copious pits would be really cool. But, if I could find a seedling or 2 of the "official" tree, I'd make room for them here. And pamper them completely.

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Richard

You can start here:

Prunus mahaleb

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Kat2

Forgive me for being a total moron. When I was tinkering with figs, the plant depository at UC Davis was recommended to me. I deferred because I didn't consider my hobby work worthy of receiving cuttings; instead I trolled the neighborhoods in my area and asked for clippings which I did grow out quite successfully from even 1" twigs. Others in my circle had no issues pretending to be "researchers" and received stock without batting an eye; I, a lowly CPA with no horticultural credentials, just couldn't justify lying about my purposes. Perhaps I was wrong.

I really would like to know if the seeds from my bushes are toxic or yummy and I really would like to have a couple of true Mahleb seedlings that I would try to grow out here where I'm truly struggling to figure out what can thrive without intense intervention. (I'm testing horseradish which natives assure me will not work because there is no winter. I plan to harvest roots in fall and vernalize them in the fridge for a month or so see I can get some heat. Rhubarb is also on my list.) But I don't want to waste precious resources because I'm not very talented when it comes to starting tree seeds; I do pretty good rooting stuff and growing seeds for perennial and flower seeds (annual and perennial).

And that's me who really didn't like the taste of cherries grown in FL I've been handed. BTW, unlike CA where I was amazed at the beauty of the produce (and dance when I tasted it), the majority of our "native" produce also stinks. No flavor. None. Gee, I had better hothouse tomatoes in January growing up in MD than I can buy here. Strange.

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Richard

The link I provided has an extensive list of references. Try contacting one of them or the biologists at the germplasm repository. Starting a new thread on the topic might be a good idea too since this one is titled Cherry Of The Rio Grande.

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Richard

You know, I was outside this evening eating some more fruits from my plant and got to wondering ... Perhaps what you tasted were fruits from the common Eugenia sold for ornamental hedges and sometimes labeled otherwise by unscrupulous sellers. This plant has fruits about 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch in diameter, while the C. of the R.G. has fruits 1/2 to 1 inch in diameter. What do you think?

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Kat2

That's entirely possible. And since I know this was grown from seed it may not have bred true. These were the first fruits that tree ever produced so the 2 I received were quite precious to the owner. She hated them also. She had another FL cherry that flowered then lost the flowers, bloomed again and lost those so I didn't taste them. I'm not sure what she called that one. Lots of cool things about gardening here but not being able to grow my "Yankee" fruits isn't one of them.

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Richard

That branch of the Myrtle family is not known for cross fertization, and I have not encountered any cultivars of either.

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