Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme?

sunfish · 02-16-2015, 01:33 PM

Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? | Latest News | Earth Island Journal | Earth Island Institute

Richard · 02-16-2015, 08:37 PM

Read all about it here:
Journal of Plant Nutrition and Soil Science - Volume 177, Issue 5 - October, 2014 - Wiley Online Library

sunfish · 02-16-2015, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Read all about it here:
Journal of Plant Nutrition and Soil Science - Volume 177, Issue 5 - October, 2014 - Wiley Online Library

Reading that gave me a headache

sunfish · 02-16-2015, 09:28 PM

feeding it to cows to make them emit less gas

BlueJava79 · 02-16-2015, 10:18 PM

Tony,

Admittedly I didn't read through the whole article. I've grown cautious of products containing the labels bio-anything ever since I learned that "bio-solids" in our fertilizers and soil mixes was just a pleasant sounding way of hiding pelletized chemical waste products such as toilet bowl cleaners or Prozac! What's worse is when I inadvertently discovered the fact that most of our Florida citrus groves are being fertilized with the pelletized sewage of NYC.

Biosolids Management Program "Plants grown in soils where biosolids have been applied are more resistant to disease and drought conditions."

Oranges Fertilized With Sludge Boston Sewage Contains Toxic Metals, Raises Safety Concern - Sun Sentinel

PR-Giants · 02-17-2015, 06:49 PM

An important part of growing bananas is maintaining loose soil for rapid root growth and charcoal does that great and seems to last forever.

I also use it for my orchids and always have several blooms everyday of the year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

This local favorite is going to be an incredibly big beautiful bunch.

The size is just amazing, this will be well over 55 lb, and the only soil amendments were some charcoal and grass clippings, no fertilizer was needed or used.

It's even more impressive when compared it to the local United States Tropical Agricultural Research Station's average of 25 lb using drip irrigation with soluble 20-20-20+ micros and Osmocote slow release 19-16-12.

Richard · 02-17-2015, 08:13 PM

In the studies I've read - including those in the link previously provided - Biochar tends to bind Nitrogen thus making less available to plants.

PR-Giants · 02-18-2015, 07:31 AM

I've been using it on my farm for decades and 'Nitrogen Binding' has not been a problem or even noticeable.

If a banana plant loses a small percentage of available nitrogen due to binding, but then increases it's root zone by 200% or 300% due to the loose soil, it's easy to see the net effect is a dramatic increase in nitrogen and other nutrients available to the plant.

There was an earlier discussion about coffee grounds binding nitrogen thus making less available to plants, so I filled a pot with 100% coffee grounds added a banana plant and just water. The plant grew and produced fruit like other bananas, here's a photo of the roots the day it was put in the ground.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

In the studies I've read - including those in the link previously provided - Biochar tends to bind Nitrogen thus making less available to plants.

Richard · 06-02-2015, 12:22 AM

Here's a recent study on the use of Biochar in a category of tropical soils known as Ferralsols in some quarters and Oxisols elsewhere.

The results are mixed. Note that conclusions based on Ferralsols have little or no application to soils in the majority of the U.S. and Canada but might help some members in tropical regions.

Effect of biochar, lime, and compost application on phosphorus adsorption in a Ferralsol

PR-Giants · 06-02-2015, 07:43 AM

WASHINGTON STATE UNIVERSITY - FACT SHEET

The nature of phosphorus in soils : University of Minnesota

Nicolas Naranja · 06-02-2015, 12:31 PM

There were a lot of presentations on biochar at the most recent Soil Science Society meeting. Results appeared to be variable depending on what the source of the biochar was, how hot it got, and what kind of soil it was applied to. I particularly remember poor results with high temperature treated almond shells in California. But, decent results with rice hulls here in Florida.

PR-Giants · 06-02-2015, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja

I particularly remember poor results...

Sometimes "poor results" can be ambiguous, was it...

a harmful impact on the soil?

or

a low return on investment as an amendment?

I think a lot has to do with expectations.

I attribute much of my success growing a'ea'e with using biochar. It's been the great equalizer against stupidity, in the past fungal rot was a problem and now it's barely a memory. It certainly improves aeration in the soil and retains moisture well.

Going Bananas · 06-02-2015, 04:50 PM

Hello Everyone!
My first post on here I might ad.
Borrowing from palm culture (palmtalk.org)
to address the top 7 from the WSU List,
palm vendors from Hawaii use
crushed volcanic rock &
some use a mix with pine bark.
Everything is naturally organic
and no greenhouse gasses
emitted in its production.

Cheers!
Ritchy

cincinnana · 06-02-2015, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-Giants

I attribute much of my success growing a'ea'e with using biochar. It's been the great equalizer against stupidity, i
]

AEAE.... its whats for dinner.

I attribute much of my success in grilling using biochar.
It's been the great equalizer against stupidty.
I've been using it for decades.

.

Biochar....good on the grill, and in the ground! by Hostafarian, on Flickr

PR-Giants · 06-02-2015, 07:33 PM

Less trees...more biochar....more AEAE for dinner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincinnana

AEAE.... its whats for dinner.

I attribute much of my success in grilling using biochar.
It's been the great equalizer against stupidty.
I've been using it for decades.

.

Biochar....good on the grill, and in the ground! by Hostafarian, on Flickr

Nicolas Naranja · 06-02-2015, 07:35 PM

Poor results as in reduced plant growth. It just doesn't seem to be uniformly good for everybody.

cincinnana · 06-02-2015, 07:48 PM

Weber grill, biochar, aeae pup.
.It IS what IS for dinner...
Burn them if you got them.

Untitled by Hostafarian, on Flickr

Going Bananas · 06-02-2015, 10:12 PM

For the average hobbyist or home gardener...
Is it worth the price and return on your investment?
Wouldnt experience and the use of grass clippings, coffee grinds, mulch, etc...
be sufficient and more cost effective?
Whats the going rate $/pound for banana
in the market or farmers market?

crazy banana · 06-03-2015, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Going Bananas

For the average hobbyist or home gardener...
Is it worth the price and return on your investment?
Wouldnt experience and the use of grass clippings, coffee grinds, mulch, etc...
be sufficient and more cost effective?
Whats the going rate $/pound for banana
in the market or farmers market?

It is a HOBBY and like with most hobbies, the return on your investment does not necessarily matter. I personally think that any homegrown banana has a better flavor than a supermarket one, so it is worth the investment right there.
I would be careful with the "black gold" charcoal, but in case of an AeAe I can picture its benefits if used in moderation.
Unfortunately, just grass clippings, coffee grinds and such would not be sufficient for growing banana plants in my soil.

PR-Giants · 06-03-2015, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Going Bananas

For the average hobbyist or home gardener...
Is it worth the price and return on your investment?
Wouldnt experience and the use of grass clippings, coffee grinds, mulch, etc...
be sufficient and more cost effective?
Whats the going rate $/pound for banana
in the market or farmers market?

For whatever reason organic material seems to work really well in financially conservative areas. It works well in the Caribbean and has worked well in Africa for thousands of years.

"To improve soil fertility, cow dung and grass are dug into the soil... It takes some work, but the result is that large green fronds shade the plantation and banana bunches hang heavy with good-sized fingers."

None of these new (FHIA) hybrids are exactly like matooke... The taste is certainly different but... 'These people's taste for life is stronger'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuri Barros

I found something :

The 'FHIA' good factor for Ugandan bananas

I think that this is the multipurpose variety that the Article talks..........called Kabana 3 (FHIA 17)........???

"Imported from Honduras, this 'FHIA' planting material is known locally as Kabana and several varieties are proving particularly popular. Kabana 3 (FHIA 17), for instance, is a multipurpose variety which can be roasted, fried, or eaten fresh."

???

02-16-2015, 01:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,258,667 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,593 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? \| Latest News \| Earth Island Journal \| Earth Island Institute

02-16-2015, 08:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 739,300 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? Read all about it here: Journal of Plant Nutrition and Soil Science - Volume 177, Issue 5 - October, 2014 - Wiley Online Library __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

02-16-2015, 09:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,258,667 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,593 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? feeding it to cows to make them emit less gas

02-16-2015, 10:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
BlueJava79 Musa Afficionado Location: SWFlorida Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Chris Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 8 BananaBucks : 1,575 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? Tony, Admittedly I didn't read through the whole article. I've grown cautious of products containing the labels bio-anything ever since I learned that "bio-solids" in our fertilizers and soil mixes was just a pleasant sounding way of hiding pelletized chemical waste products such as toilet bowl cleaners or Prozac! What's worse is when I inadvertently discovered the fact that most of our Florida citrus groves are being fertilized with the pelletized sewage of NYC. Biosolids Management Program "Plants grown in soils where biosolids have been applied are more resistant to disease and drought conditions." Oranges Fertilized With Sludge Boston Sewage Contains Toxic Metals, Raises Safety Concern - Sun Sentinel Last edited by BlueJava79 : 02-16-2015 at 10:25 PM.

02-17-2015, 08:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 739,300 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? In the studies I've read - including those in the link previously provided - Biochar tends to bind Nitrogen thus making less available to plants. __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

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06-02-2015, 12:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 739,300 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? Here's a recent study on the use of Biochar in a category of tropical soils known as Ferralsols in some quarters and Oxisols elsewhere. The results are mixed. Note that conclusions based on Ferralsols have little or no application to soils in the majority of the U.S. and Canada but might help some members in tropical regions. Effect of biochar, lime, and compost application on phosphorus adsorption in a Ferralsol __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

06-02-2015, 07:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
PR-Giants Commercial Grower Location: Florida & Greater Antilles Find me on the map! Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,713 BananaBucks : 458 Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,954 Times Was Thanked 12,894 Times in 3,784 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3,225 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? WASHINGTON STATE UNIVERSITY - FACT SHEET The nature of phosphorus in soils : University of Minnesota __________________ PR-Giants Photo Gallery 15,000+ Varieties

06-02-2015, 12:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
Nicolas Naranja Muck bananas Nicolas Naranja 's Photo Gallery Location: Pahokee, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Nick Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,217 BananaBucks : 528,579 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 66 Times Was Thanked 5,665 Times in 1,563 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? There were a lot of presentations on biochar at the most recent Soil Science Society meeting. Results appeared to be variable depending on what the source of the biochar was, how hot it got, and what kind of soil it was applied to. I particularly remember poor results with high temperature treated almond shells in California. But, decent results with rice hulls here in Florida. __________________ Some people go bananas, I went plantains.

06-02-2015, 04:50 PM	#13 (permalink)
Going Bananas GoinBananas Location: Frwy 210&57 SoCal Zone: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 290 BananaBucks : 18,989 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 227 Times Was Thanked 264 Times in 155 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 4 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? Hello Everyone! My first post on here I might ad. Borrowing from palm culture (palmtalk.org) to address the top 7 from the WSU List, palm vendors from Hawaii use crushed volcanic rock & some use a mix with pine bark. Everything is naturally organic and no greenhouse gasses emitted in its production. Cheers! Ritchy

06-02-2015, 07:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
Nicolas Naranja Muck bananas Nicolas Naranja 's Photo Gallery Location: Pahokee, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Nick Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,217 BananaBucks : 528,579 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 66 Times Was Thanked 5,665 Times in 1,563 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? Poor results as in reduced plant growth. It just doesn't seem to be uniformly good for everybody. __________________ Some people go bananas, I went plantains.

06-02-2015, 07:48 PM	#17 (permalink)
cincinnana container grower Location: Southwest Ohio U.S.A.🇺🇸 Find me on the map! Zone: HZ 6/5 Microclimate - Elevation 750 feet- 228.60 meters Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 8,876 BananaBucks : 4,174 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,914 Times Was Thanked 11,776 Times in 4,910 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,957 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? Weber grill, biochar, aeae pup. .It IS what IS for dinner... Burn them if you got them. Untitled by Hostafarian, on Flickr __________________ Cincinnana/Hostafarians Photo Gallery 🌴

06-02-2015, 10:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
Going Bananas GoinBananas Location: Frwy 210&57 SoCal Zone: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 290 BananaBucks : 18,989 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 227 Times Was Thanked 264 Times in 155 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 4 Times	Re: Biochar: Black Gold or Just Another Snake Oil Scheme? For the average hobbyist or home gardener... Is it worth the price and return on your investment? Wouldnt experience and the use of grass clippings, coffee grinds, mulch, etc... be sufficient and more cost effective? Whats the going rate $/pound for banana in the market or farmers market?

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