Ivanov_Kuznetsov

Has anyone examined the role of strontium, boron, manganese, or magnesium in the life cycle of the banana plant? I know that strontium, being in the same family as calcium, tends to find its way into plants tissues where calcium would go, but not all species can utilize strontium for some of the same processes where calcium is required. For discussion, let's assume you used strontium chloride.

Boron and manganese depletion isn't common, so i'm curious as to the effects of reasonable supplementation. For the purpose of discussion, let's assume that the supplement form would be sodium tetraborate and manganese sulfate (or potassium permanganate) dissolved in water and applied to the soil near the roots.

Magnesium I'm not to familiar with. I know that my pepper and tomato plants definitely appreciate the epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) I apply around flowering time. Has anyone measured or qualitatively assessed the efficacy of such with bananas?

Thoughts are appreciated!

bepah

Without magnesium there can be no chlorophyll. Mg is essential to a plant even being alive if it uses chlorophyll for trapping and converting the sun's energy.

Potassium permanagenate is a highly dangerous chemical to use in any strength at all. I'd avoid it.

I'm curious as to why you need to take such a brute force application for trace elements....standard composting or fertilization should provide enough for your plants.

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Ivanov_Kuznetsov

I like your thoughts on the magnesium and the permanganate. That was just kind of a test to see if someone was familiar with the compound; I'm pleased to see you don't approve of dumping a potent oxidizer onto a precious banana plant.

I'm curious as to the effects of these elements, in certain compounds, on the plants and how they relate to weather conditions and growth patterns. Part of it is experimentation, really. The bulk of my banana plants are the "control" group which live quite happily in a vigorously mixed bit of silicon sand, dirt, wood compost, manure compost, leaf compost, and various organic scraps.

Strontium isn't really a trace element per say. Humans can live without it; we use zinc in a similar manner for bone structure. However, when it is available and absorbed, it stimulates osteoblast activity, which tends to increase bone density, quite a useful property in combating osteoporosis. I am curious as to how useful it might be for said element and related cases in the banana world.

Also, anyone heard of Gibberellic Acid? Now, that stuff sounds *very* interesting.

Richard

Potassium plays that role with bananas.

Main constituent of Norwegian seaweed extract. Some useful information can be found here: Plant hormone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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jmoore

In humans strontium is preferentially absorbed over calcium because it's more reactive. It also has a slightly different chemistry so it's effects in large amounts could be detrimental. Same for bananas I suspect.

As for giberillic acid. I'm convinced that it has no effect on germination (in bananas) and probably inhibits germination. It may promote the root number and length, it also increases cell elongation. So unless you want a tall floppy plant, but with good roots I'd use it sparingly. I think it's over rated. In seaweed extract there are other growth regulators at work such as auxin and trace elements, which would be beneficial.

Just my opinion.

Richard

Gibberellic acid has been shown to be a general hormone stimulant: whatever the plant is doing it will be signaled to do more of it. The actual amount needed for action is very low, so I agree with jmoore that it should be applied sparingly. In southern California, a dilute form of gibberellic acid is sprayed on avocado groves in the early spring, thus causing the inflorescence to dramatically increase in size and number. For natural gardening enthusiasts, it is the rooting hormone of choice.

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Bananaman88

Yep, GA is very commonly used for rooting cuttings in the nursery/greenhouse industry.

adrift

Far from new. Burpees or Gurneys or one of those other big seed companies sold it 35 years ago to make your plants grow giant.

The right dose at the right time is pretty common in industry. But one dose does not fit all. You need to know what dose your species needs. Less does nothing but consume $. Too much may have a reverse effect.

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Ivanov_Kuznetsov

Besides Gibberellic Acid, back on to my original thoughts, has anyone found literature or done experiments with the rare earths or doping with various minerals? Sulfur seems to keep the mushy rotting crap under control.

Richard

Some of us believe that user D & T has been fertilizing with uranium oxide !!

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Ivanov_Kuznetsov

Aha, I was thinking of raising some with polonium 210 or lead 210 and sending them to the white house or the capital building perhaps

damaclese

Really care to enlighten us as to why one would introduce that in to your food supply what are the benefits i no vary little about it but living 90 mils from the Nevada test site my ears are perking up at the mer mention of Uranium

this is a vary serous subject here in Las Vegas they test for it in are water 9 times a day sorry if I'm being a thread wrecker

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damaclese

I'm sure you are joking but if i were you i would refrain from make any jokes about thees types of threats they tend to come and arrest people for saying them

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Ivanov_Kuznetsov

I appreciate your concern but hardly think that radioactive gift bananas would be a threat to this country given the level of toxins from everything else in our environment

Jack Daw

Oh please, even they have to have some sence of humor. Or is it so bad in there?

Nailed it.

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damaclese

well take it as you will but if you make a threat against the president either directly or in directly by saying you are going to send a dangerous substance to the white house i guaranty non descript men in black suits driving big black SUV will show up at your door whether you were joking of not thy regularly monitor the INTERNET for thees kinds of statements i was just trying to help i have no idea were most of your are if you don't fill out your details so it was a general comment not in any way meant to harass any one

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Richard

O.K., I started this by joking about D&T using uranium oxide to fertilize one of their plants -- in response to Ivanov's question about rare earth minerals. So now before we get too sidetracked ... perhaps someone has something to add on the original subject?

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Ohio'sBest

This is a general chart....................




Plant Nutrient Deficiency Symptoms
Macronutrients

Calcium (Ca)
o Symptoms: New leaves are distorted or hook shaped. The growing tip may die. Contributes to blossom end rot in tomatoes, tip burn of cabbage and brown/black heart of escarole & celery.
o Sources: Any compound containing the word 'calcium'. Also gypsum.
o Notes: Not often a deficiency problem and too much will inhibit other nutrients.

Nitrogen (N)
o Symptoms: Older leaves, generally at the bottom of the plant, will yellow. Remaining foliage is often light green. Stems may also yellow and may become spindly. Growth slows.
o Sources: Any compound containing the words: 'nitrate', 'ammonium' or 'urea'. Also manure.
o Notes: Many forms of nitrogen are water soluble and wash away.

Magnesium (Mg)
o Symptoms: Slow growth and leaves turn pale yellow, sometimes just on the outer edges. New growth may be yellow with dark spots.
o Sources: Compounds containing the word 'magnesium', such as Epson Salts.

Phosphorus (P)
o Symptoms: Small leaves that may take on a reddish-purple tint. Leaf tips can look burnt and older leaves become almost black. Reduced fruit or seed production.
o Sources: Compounds containing the words 'phosphate' or 'bone'. Also greensand.
o Notes: Very dependent on pH range.

Potassium (K)
o Symptoms: Older leaves may look scorched around the edges and/or wilted. Interveinal chlorosis (yellowing between the leaf veins) develops.
o Sources: Compounds containing the words 'potassium' or 'potash'.

Sulfur (S)
o Symptoms: New growth turns pale yellow, older growth stays green. Stunts growth.
o Sources: Compounds containing the word 'sulfate'.
o Notes: More prevalent in dry weather.


Micronutrients

Boron (B)
o Symptoms: Poor stem and root growth. Terminal (end) buds may die. Witches brooms sometimes form.
o Sources: Compounds containing the words 'borax' or 'borate'.

Copper (Cu)
o Symptoms: Stunted growth. Leaves can become limp, curl, or drop. Seed stalks also become limp and bend over.
o Sources: Compounds containing the words 'copper', 'cupric' or 'cuprous'.

Manganese (Mn)
o Symptoms: Growth slows. Younger leaves turn pale yellow, often starting between veins. May develop dark or dead spots. Leaves, shoots and fruit diminished in size. Failure to bloom.
o Sources: Compounds containing the words 'manganese' or 'manganous'

Molybdenum (Mo)
o Symptoms: Older leaves yellow, remaining foliage turns light green. Leaves can become narrow and distorted.
o Sources: Compounds containing the words 'molybdate' or 'molybdic'.
o Notes: Sometimes confused with nitrogen deficiency.

Zinc (Zn)
o Symptoms: Yellowing between veins of new growth. Terminal (end) leaves may form a rosette.
o Sources: Compounds containing the word 'zinc'.
o Notes: Can become limited in higher pH.

Iron. These iron-deficient leaves (see Figure 12) show strong chlorosis at the base of the leaves with some green netting. The most common symptom for iron deficiency starts out as an interveinal chlorosis of the youngest leaves, evolves into an overall chlorosis, and ends as a totally bleached leaf. The bleached areas often develop necrotic spots. Up until the time the leaves become almost completely white they will recover upon application of iron. In the recovery phase the veins are the first to recover as indicated by their bright green color. This distinct venial re-greening observed during iron recovery is probably the most recognizable symptom in all of classical plant nutrition. Because iron has a low mobility, iron deficiency symptoms appear first on the youngest leaves. Iron deficiency is strongly associated with calcareous soils and anaerobic conditions, and it is often induced by an excess of heavy metals.

Kind of a rule of thumb

OLD Leaves...................Macronutes

NEW Leaves...................Micronutes

adrift

Fantastic.

(Psst: you left off iron.)

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Ohio'sBest

sorry