Dean W.

I have rocky, clay soil and wandering how others deal with it when planting there bananas? In edition depth of hole, organic matter added and etc.

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Richard

Drainage is the key. Dig a test hole at least a foot deep and fill it with water. If it does not drain completely in 2 hours, you need to either: dig a French drain away from the hole to a downhill location, or build a raised bed.

A French drain is a trench about 2-3 inches wide and at the planting hole as deep as the hole. The bottom few inches are 1/2 inch or 3/8 inch gravel, topped with an inch of organic material and then refilled with native soil. It is dug on a downhill slope but does not descend as rapidly so that eventually it exits at the original soil level.

Figure out what you need and then let's talk about filling your hole or raised bed.

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mskitty38583

dean thats the kind of ground we have here in my yard. but i have a 17 yr old thats really good with a shovel...im just joking. i had to dig out all the stone and then water the ground to get it soft( that took a week of constant watering) i broke up the first 10-18 inches and then did the beds on top of that. i took clay and rocks out and then brought good dirt and organic compost in. its a lot of work but its worth it to see the big root systems flurish. richard, i love french drains, i have to put one in in front of my living room window. whats gonna help me is i have a slight angle that the front flower bed runs so im just gonna dig it, fill it with pug and then mulch over it with cedar mulch. and walla french drain.

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brettay

I have a Mysore that is in pretty heavy clay and does very well. I haven't gotten it to fruit yet, but that is more because of frost.

Dean W.

Richard, let me finish digging to the size I need first. Then I'll fill with water. I wanted to include some cannas along with three bananas in 10-gallon containers. The French drain sounds great. I have rock that I could use that I got out of the hole.

mskitty, what did you do with all that you dug out? I hate to throw it away. I don't need gravel and clay in the yard. LOL!!!

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mskitty38583

i relocated it to parts of the yard that needed building up.

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natedogg1026

My soil was solid clay, I started over with pure compost 18" deep. I also put a french drain (thanx Richard) in and ran it 65' to the ditch at the edge of the yard. A lot of work but well worth it, we've had almost 20" of rain in the last two months!

Attached Images

	Picture 002.jpg (1.53 MB, 32 views)
	Beds 026.jpg (1.53 MB, 34 views)

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Banana's are a safe addiction. Right?Maybe I need classes.

Dean W.

Break Time.

Yes, I thought about relocating it to parts of the yard where I can use. I just don't want to mess up my grass with a bunch of gravel and clachice (Clay).

Nate, does look like your clay is heavier than mine. During the summer were pretty arid. Especially this summer. We've broken 100 F temp records. French drain worked well for you. I have three 10-gallons and two five-gallon containers I need to plant. That's why the hole I'm digging looks like a shallow grave. LOL!!! Take a look here...I'm trying to hide some compost piles in the first pic.

Second picture is for an idea of what kinda of space I'm dealing with.

Third, shows a one-gallon container for scale.

Fourth, is the hole again gives you an idea of what soil I'm dealing with.


Back to digging! Will check in soon!

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chong

Dean,
That's hard work. Have you ever heard of a rototiller? But then that wouldn't be half the fun! Oh! Well! At least you've had a great workout. Good job!

Richard

Dean, those photos are very helpful. Dig to a depth of at least 2 feet. Fill the holes half-way with water, mixing in about 1 cup of liquid gypsum (or 1/2 cup powdered gypsum) per 5 gallons of water and let it soak in.

For the excavated soil: remove all rocks larger than a golfball. Normally for your situation I would recommend 1/4 native soil, 1/4 quarter-inch pumice, 1/4 washed sharp sand (base-pack for pavers), 1/4 composted organic material. However, it appears you have gravel in your soil. So you could go with 1/3 native, 1/3 washed sharp sand and 1/3 composted organic material or even better - ground coir. Also add 2 cups of a humus-based soil conditioner (NPK of 3-3-3 or 4-4-4 at the maximum) per cubic yard of soil. If you don't have access to a humus-based soil conditioner you could substitute Kellogg's N'Rich for the 1/3 organic material.

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Dean W.

Chong, it's not very fun. I take a lot of breaks. It's at least 95F outside.

Richard, wow, 2' deep huh? I don't have gypsum what do I need it for? Where can I buy it?

As far as the other stuff goes I'll have to go to Home Depot.

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natedogg1026

Gypsum will ammend the clay. Gosh Dean, that looks pretty nasty to dig through. Mine was just solid clay. No rocks here. Good work!

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Dean W.

Gypsum is not available where I live. I don't think. Other than gypsum board.

I can get the sand. Organic material I can do. It's the "2 cups of a humus-based soil conditioner " where I get mixed up?

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Richard

Gypsum alone will not amend clay. You also need humic acids. The gypsum helps mediate the small particle size of clays, and the humic acids (complex mix of light carbonic acids) mediate the tight ionic bonds of the clay minerals, releasing nutrition to plants.

DEAN: Home Depot stocks agricultural gypsum and also a product called "soil buster" that is ~70% gypsum. Your Home Depot probably also stocks Kellogg Garden Products soils. If they have N'Rich - great. 2nd best: "Amend". These both contain significant amounts of humic acid solids. Humic acids are also found in Dr. Earth soil conditioners and GroPower -- sold at independent nurseries and farm supply stores. "It will be on the label".

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chong

Try Home Depot. They have soil conditioners in 2 cu. ft. bags. I believe I've seen bags of gypsum in the HD here in Seattle.

Velutina

I'm a big fan of raised beds. I have some bananas growing very well in a raised bed filled with soilless mixture. Probably 20% perlite, 50% peat, 30% compost.

I was planting a palm in Vegas and it took at least an hour to dig a small hole. The soil was loaded with rocks and was as hard as concrete.

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Adam

Dean W.

Velutina, how high did you go with your raised beds?

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Richard

Most soil conditioners do not contain humic acids -- which are essential to Dean's situation.

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Dean W.

Hey Richard, I'm looking at Home Depot's web site now. They have none of the products your talking about.

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Richard

Dean, I checked all HD stores within 50 miles of Cedar Park and none of them carry Agricultural Gypsum, which would normally be listed under "Outdoors" --> "Garden Center" --> "Fertilizers" --> "Lime & Gypsum".

However, there are plenty of agricultural supply stores in the greater Austin area. I'm sure you'll find a 5-star nursery among them!

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