Newer leaves turning lighter

stevelau1911 · 09-12-2010, 09:57 PM

After my musa basjoos have been growing all season, they now seem to be turning lighter and lighter. Is this basically a response to the cooler weather?
I liked it better when they consistently made dark leaves so perhaps I need to add a few handfuls of ironite. They are still growing, but look like they are declining in health maybe because 1ft deeper was too deep.

This shows how the newer leaves seem to be progressively getting lighter and it might be from the 40degree nights we've had lately.
[IMG]

[/IMG]

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Here's how they were 1 month ago when new leaves darkened up quickly.
[IMG]

[/IMG]

venturabananas · 09-13-2010, 12:22 AM

Your photos, especially the first one, look a lot like my dwarf Cavendish, which were burning in the sun in the cigar phase, having some yellow striping, and generally getting more yellow. Dr. Scot Nelson, who made the "Growing Bananas" DVD, diagnosed the problem as calcium deficiency. See the following thread:

Bent leaves

hilashes · 09-13-2010, 12:50 AM

Thanks for posting your pictures stevelau1911. My Musa Basjoo's leaves are doing the exact same thing as yours! and I also thought it might be due to the colder temperatures. The last couple of leaves are having a hard time unfurling properly too. My other Basjoo is not having any issues at all, it's on the other side of the yard with deep green leaves so I've wondered what's wrong with this one yellowing!

Thanks Mark for the helpful link. At this time of year now I'm not sure if I should add any calcium or lime to the soil or leave it until next year...what are your thoughts? or ask the question in the Bent leaves link?

Thanks,
Heidi

venturabananas · 09-13-2010, 10:59 AM

Heidi,

This pure speculation on my part, because I just don't have the experience to really know, but I can't see any harm in adding calcium to the soil (and via foliar application) now, just prior to cold weather. Unlike nitrogen-based fertilizers which could break down and become toxic (e.g., produce ammonia) during the winter if not absorbed by the plant because it isn't growing in the cold, the calcium will remain calcium and shouldn't be toxic.

Note that if your soil is around neutral pH or on the alkaline side, you'd want to add gypsum (calcium sulfate dihydrate) rather than agricultural lime, which would make your soil more alkaline.

Good luck.

hilashes · 09-13-2010, 11:05 AM

I'm not sure what kind of soil I have so will have to get out to buy a soil tester. Thanks again Mark, awesome advice!

Heidi

palmtree · 09-13-2010, 07:37 PM

Your not alone! I have the same problem on a few of my bananas! Im going to add some calcium and I hope that it works! When do the results usually begin to show?

natej740 · 09-13-2010, 07:40 PM

Steve do you fertilize your plants? If you planted them a foot deeper you may be deeper than the topsoil with all the nutrients. So they may not be getting everything they need. Mine are still putting out green leaves in the colder weather and in in zone 6 also...

stevelau1911 · 09-13-2010, 08:34 PM

I added pelleted fertilizer, myccorhizal fungi, manure, grass clippings and compost in the hole it was planted with the corm probably even a bit more than 1ft deep so I guess they might be a bit stressed for getting air down that deep. I have also added miracle gro once in a while, but they still seem to be getting lighter.

If I do add calcium sulfate dihydrate, I hope it can make it all the way down to the root zone after a few waterings. I also doubt it is getting lighter new leaves from too much water because it is planted on a hill that drains very well.

venturabananas · 09-13-2010, 10:34 PM

I really don't know how long it takes to see results from adding calcium -- at least a week because I haven't seen any obvious results yet and I applied a foliar spray and gypsum almost a week ago.

Even if the roots are deep, the calcium from the gypsum or agricultural lime should eventually get down there. A foliar spray should act faster. I used a calcium chloride spray sold for tomato blossom end rot (also caused by calcium deficiency).

stevelau1911 · 09-17-2010, 10:38 PM

A couple days ago I put about 5lbs of gypsum on each of these banana plants, and let the rain hopefully seep it down to the root zone to hopefully green them up. I'm not too worried since it is already getting cold up here in the north so they are almost done growing, but if they survive this winter, I hope that they come back healthy and green.

Another reason these 2 may be turning lighter is because I may have put too much peat moss down into the holes when I planted them while the other one that didn't use peat moss is not turning lighter. Perhaps once the roots and corms expand far enough, this problem might go away.

stevelau1911 · 09-22-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venturabananas

Heidi,

This pure speculation on my part, because I just don't have the experience to really know, but I can't see any harm in adding calcium to the soil (and via foliar application) now, just prior to cold weather. Unlike nitrogen-based fertilizers which could break down and become toxic (e.g., produce ammonia) during the winter if not absorbed by the plant because it isn't growing in the cold, the calcium will remain calcium and shouldn't be toxic.

Note that if your soil is around neutral pH or on the alkaline side, you'd want to add gypsum (calcium sulfate dihydrate) rather than agricultural lime, which would make your soil more alkaline.

Good luck.

After 1 week of applying the gypsum, the newly unfolded leaf already looks darker and the unfolding leaf looks completely healthy already so it did work way sooner than I expected.

Now my largest basjoo has 4 pups and even they look like they've darkened up. Anyways thanks for the advice.

hilashes · 09-23-2010, 08:51 AM

Steve that's great news! I'm sure they'll be nice a green next year too, now that we know how to remedy the situation. I'll have to give that a try too!
We learn some great things all the time on here!

Heidi

stevelau1911 · 09-24-2010, 04:03 PM

Here's a picture of how it has recovered well after adding the gypsum. I might use the gypsum on other plants too if it does that well in greening up bananas almost immediately. The pictures were taken about 12 days apart.

Before
[IMG]

[/IMG]

After
[IMG]

[/IMG]

hilashes · 09-24-2010, 04:11 PM

HOLY HANNAH does that EVER WORK AWESOME!!

That's the kind of green I'd like to see on my one naner. Thanks for the pics!

Heidi

venturabananas · 10-02-2010, 07:00 PM

Steve, the calcium application seems to have worked a lot faster for you than me. It's been nearly a month and my plant that was getting burnt cigar leaves, having yellow leaves, and trouble unfurling the cigar leaves is improving, but it isn't all the way back to normal yet. Even before the gypsum and foliar calcium spray, the yellow leaves on my plant would eventually green up on their own.

But your plant looks great. I hope mine gets back to that look soon.

stevelau1911 · 10-02-2010, 07:11 PM

I put down a lot of gypsum and watered it thoroughly to make sure it seeps down into the root zone and it took less than a week to see recovery. By now, it looks like there was never a problem. I think another reason mine greened up fast was because I added it as soon as I noticed the lighter leaves and that something was wrong.

Now the first freeze is only a couple weeks away so I'll have to get some insulation material to wrap them up and hopefully save the trunks so that they can pick up where they left of growing this year.

venturabananas · 10-02-2010, 07:33 PM

Steve, yes, if you used 5 lb per plant, you definitely used more than I did. Was it granulated or more like powder? I did water mine in, but it was granulated and I used less than a pound per plant.

stevelau1911 · 10-02-2010, 07:52 PM

I used the granulated kind and I think I bought the 35lb one from ebay which was a pretty good deal. Many other plants have shown this kind of lightening so I've used it on those too and it seems to solve the problems.

Hopefully when it comes back next year, it won't have this problem and hopefully get above 10ft. This year from leaf tip to ground, they seem to be ending up around 5-6ft which is not bad for starting out from 2 inch basjoo plug plants in the spring. I expect them to come back around May and really take off growing for next year and based on how hardy basjoo is reported to be, with complete protection and already being planted 1ft deeper, I think they should come back very strong.

09-12-2010, 09:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
stevelau1911 stevelau1911's Photo Gallery Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 456 BananaBucks : 144,795 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 51 Times Was Thanked 558 Times in 256 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 24 Times	Newer leaves turning lighter After my musa basjoos have been growing all season, they now seem to be turning lighter and lighter. Is this basically a response to the cooler weather? I liked it better when they consistently made dark leaves so perhaps I need to add a few handfuls of ironite. They are still growing, but look like they are declining in health maybe because 1ft deeper was too deep. This shows how the newer leaves seem to be progressively getting lighter and it might be from the 40degree nights we've had lately. [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] Here's how they were 1 month ago when new leaves darkened up quickly. [IMG][/IMG] __________________ I'm in zone 6 upstate NY, specialize in growing temperate cold hardy bamboos(mainly phyllostachys) and starting to get into bananas. my picture website is http://www.flickr.com/photos/31489820@N02/ http://stevespeonygarden.blogspot.com/

09-13-2010, 12:22 AM	#2 (permalink)
venturabananas venturabananas's Photo Gallery Location: Ventura, CA Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Mark Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,845 BananaBucks : 239,153 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,752 Times Was Thanked 3,968 Times in 1,713 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 39 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter Your photos, especially the first one, look a lot like my dwarf Cavendish, which were burning in the sun in the cigar phase, having some yellow striping, and generally getting more yellow. Dr. Scot Nelson, who made the "Growing Bananas" DVD, diagnosed the problem as calcium deficiency. See the following thread: Bent leaves __________________

09-13-2010, 12:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
hilashes hilashes's Photo Gallery Location: Vancouver, BC Find me on the map! Zone: 8a Name: Heidi Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 72 BananaBucks : 21,555 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9 Times Was Thanked 25 Times in 12 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter Thanks for posting your pictures stevelau1911. My Musa Basjoo's leaves are doing the exact same thing as yours! and I also thought it might be due to the colder temperatures. The last couple of leaves are having a hard time unfurling properly too. My other Basjoo is not having any issues at all, it's on the other side of the yard with deep green leaves so I've wondered what's wrong with this one yellowing! Thanks Mark for the helpful link. At this time of year now I'm not sure if I should add any calcium or lime to the soil or leave it until next year...what are your thoughts? or ask the question in the Bent leaves link? Thanks, Heidi __________________ From The Canadian West Coast!

09-13-2010, 10:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
venturabananas venturabananas's Photo Gallery Location: Ventura, CA Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Mark Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,845 BananaBucks : 239,153 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,752 Times Was Thanked 3,968 Times in 1,713 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 39 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter Heidi, This pure speculation on my part, because I just don't have the experience to really know, but I can't see any harm in adding calcium to the soil (and via foliar application) now, just prior to cold weather. Unlike nitrogen-based fertilizers which could break down and become toxic (e.g., produce ammonia) during the winter if not absorbed by the plant because it isn't growing in the cold, the calcium will remain calcium and shouldn't be toxic. Note that if your soil is around neutral pH or on the alkaline side, you'd want to add gypsum (calcium sulfate dihydrate) rather than agricultural lime, which would make your soil more alkaline. Good luck. __________________

09-13-2010, 11:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
hilashes hilashes's Photo Gallery Location: Vancouver, BC Find me on the map! Zone: 8a Name: Heidi Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 72 BananaBucks : 21,555 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9 Times Was Thanked 25 Times in 12 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter I'm not sure what kind of soil I have so will have to get out to buy a soil tester. Thanks again Mark, awesome advice! Heidi __________________ From The Canadian West Coast!

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09-13-2010, 07:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
palmtree palmtree 's Photo Gallery Location: New York City Find me on the map! Zone: 7b Name: Alex C Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,016 BananaBucks : 103,790 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,492 Times Was Thanked 1,428 Times in 644 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 103 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter Your not alone! I have the same problem on a few of my bananas! Im going to add some calcium and I hope that it works! When do the results usually begin to show? __________________ Location: New York City, zone 7b

09-13-2010, 07:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
natej740 natej740's Photo Gallery Location: Chillicothe, Ohio Find me on the map! Zone: 6 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 509 BananaBucks : 193,126 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 262 Times Was Thanked 480 Times in 224 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 49 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter Steve do you fertilize your plants? If you planted them a foot deeper you may be deeper than the topsoil with all the nutrients. So they may not be getting everything they need. Mine are still putting out green leaves in the colder weather and in in zone 6 also...

09-13-2010, 08:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
stevelau1911 stevelau1911's Photo Gallery Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 456 BananaBucks : 144,795 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 51 Times Was Thanked 558 Times in 256 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 24 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter I added pelleted fertilizer, myccorhizal fungi, manure, grass clippings and compost in the hole it was planted with the corm probably even a bit more than 1ft deep so I guess they might be a bit stressed for getting air down that deep. I have also added miracle gro once in a while, but they still seem to be getting lighter. If I do add calcium sulfate dihydrate, I hope it can make it all the way down to the root zone after a few waterings. I also doubt it is getting lighter new leaves from too much water because it is planted on a hill that drains very well. __________________ I'm in zone 6 upstate NY, specialize in growing temperate cold hardy bamboos(mainly phyllostachys) and starting to get into bananas. my picture website is http://www.flickr.com/photos/31489820@N02/ http://stevespeonygarden.blogspot.com/

09-13-2010, 10:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
venturabananas venturabananas's Photo Gallery Location: Ventura, CA Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Mark Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,845 BananaBucks : 239,153 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,752 Times Was Thanked 3,968 Times in 1,713 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 39 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter I really don't know how long it takes to see results from adding calcium -- at least a week because I haven't seen any obvious results yet and I applied a foliar spray and gypsum almost a week ago. Even if the roots are deep, the calcium from the gypsum or agricultural lime should eventually get down there. A foliar spray should act faster. I used a calcium chloride spray sold for tomato blossom end rot (also caused by calcium deficiency). __________________

09-17-2010, 10:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
stevelau1911 stevelau1911's Photo Gallery Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 456 BananaBucks : 144,795 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 51 Times Was Thanked 558 Times in 256 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 24 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter A couple days ago I put about 5lbs of gypsum on each of these banana plants, and let the rain hopefully seep it down to the root zone to hopefully green them up. I'm not too worried since it is already getting cold up here in the north so they are almost done growing, but if they survive this winter, I hope that they come back healthy and green. Another reason these 2 may be turning lighter is because I may have put too much peat moss down into the holes when I planted them while the other one that didn't use peat moss is not turning lighter. Perhaps once the roots and corms expand far enough, this problem might go away. __________________ I'm in zone 6 upstate NY, specialize in growing temperate cold hardy bamboos(mainly phyllostachys) and starting to get into bananas. my picture website is http://www.flickr.com/photos/31489820@N02/ http://stevespeonygarden.blogspot.com/

09-23-2010, 08:51 AM	#12 (permalink)
hilashes hilashes's Photo Gallery Location: Vancouver, BC Find me on the map! Zone: 8a Name: Heidi Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 72 BananaBucks : 21,555 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9 Times Was Thanked 25 Times in 12 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter Steve that's great news! I'm sure they'll be nice a green next year too, now that we know how to remedy the situation. I'll have to give that a try too! We learn some great things all the time on here! Heidi __________________ From The Canadian West Coast!

09-24-2010, 04:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
stevelau1911 stevelau1911's Photo Gallery Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 456 BananaBucks : 144,795 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 51 Times Was Thanked 558 Times in 256 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 24 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter Here's a picture of how it has recovered well after adding the gypsum. I might use the gypsum on other plants too if it does that well in greening up bananas almost immediately. The pictures were taken about 12 days apart. Before [IMG][/IMG] After [IMG][/IMG] __________________ I'm in zone 6 upstate NY, specialize in growing temperate cold hardy bamboos(mainly phyllostachys) and starting to get into bananas. my picture website is http://www.flickr.com/photos/31489820@N02/ http://stevespeonygarden.blogspot.com/

09-24-2010, 04:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
hilashes hilashes's Photo Gallery Location: Vancouver, BC Find me on the map! Zone: 8a Name: Heidi Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 72 BananaBucks : 21,555 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9 Times Was Thanked 25 Times in 12 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter HOLY HANNAH does that EVER WORK AWESOME!! That's the kind of green I'd like to see on my one naner. Thanks for the pics! Heidi __________________ From The Canadian West Coast!

10-02-2010, 07:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
venturabananas venturabananas's Photo Gallery Location: Ventura, CA Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Mark Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,845 BananaBucks : 239,153 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,752 Times Was Thanked 3,968 Times in 1,713 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 39 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter Steve, the calcium application seems to have worked a lot faster for you than me. It's been nearly a month and my plant that was getting burnt cigar leaves, having yellow leaves, and trouble unfurling the cigar leaves is improving, but it isn't all the way back to normal yet. Even before the gypsum and foliar calcium spray, the yellow leaves on my plant would eventually green up on their own. But your plant looks great. I hope mine gets back to that look soon. __________________

10-02-2010, 07:11 PM	#16 (permalink)
stevelau1911 stevelau1911's Photo Gallery Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 456 BananaBucks : 144,795 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 51 Times Was Thanked 558 Times in 256 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 24 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter I put down a lot of gypsum and watered it thoroughly to make sure it seeps down into the root zone and it took less than a week to see recovery. By now, it looks like there was never a problem. I think another reason mine greened up fast was because I added it as soon as I noticed the lighter leaves and that something was wrong. Now the first freeze is only a couple weeks away so I'll have to get some insulation material to wrap them up and hopefully save the trunks so that they can pick up where they left of growing this year. __________________ I'm in zone 6 upstate NY, specialize in growing temperate cold hardy bamboos(mainly phyllostachys) and starting to get into bananas. my picture website is http://www.flickr.com/photos/31489820@N02/ http://stevespeonygarden.blogspot.com/

10-02-2010, 07:33 PM	#17 (permalink)
venturabananas venturabananas's Photo Gallery Location: Ventura, CA Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Mark Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,845 BananaBucks : 239,153 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,752 Times Was Thanked 3,968 Times in 1,713 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 39 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter Steve, yes, if you used 5 lb per plant, you definitely used more than I did. Was it granulated or more like powder? I did water mine in, but it was granulated and I used less than a pound per plant. __________________

10-02-2010, 07:52 PM	#18 (permalink)
stevelau1911 stevelau1911's Photo Gallery Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 456 BananaBucks : 144,795 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 51 Times Was Thanked 558 Times in 256 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 24 Times	Re: Newer leaves turning lighter I used the granulated kind and I think I bought the 35lb one from ebay which was a pretty good deal. Many other plants have shown this kind of lightening so I've used it on those too and it seems to solve the problems. Hopefully when it comes back next year, it won't have this problem and hopefully get above 10ft. This year from leaf tip to ground, they seem to be ending up around 5-6ft which is not bad for starting out from 2 inch basjoo plug plants in the spring. I expect them to come back around May and really take off growing for next year and based on how hardy basjoo is reported to be, with complete protection and already being planted 1ft deeper, I think they should come back very strong. __________________ I'm in zone 6 upstate NY, specialize in growing temperate cold hardy bamboos(mainly phyllostachys) and starting to get into bananas. my picture website is http://www.flickr.com/photos/31489820@N02/ http://stevespeonygarden.blogspot.com/

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