Gros Michel - Page 9

harveyc · 02-04-2012, 03:38 PM

Sometime in 2005 I ordered three different banana varieties from Wellspring Nursery (on eBay), Dwarf Orinoco, Raja Puri, and Ice Cream. I don't think any of them were what they were sold to be. I read somewhere a year or two later where Wellspring said there had been some mix-up with Agri-Starts and that Wellspring had made it right with this other customer. I later wrote to Wellspring to discuss this since I thought they might help me figure out what they had sent me. They didn't really seem to know what I was talking about (so I question the other post I had read), and they said they were confident they had labeled the plants correctly according to what Agri-Starts sent them. I would guess the chances of Agri-Starts having a true GM strain are about 50% since both Jon has something that doesn't look right and we had another member here selling plants he got somewhere that were supposedly GM but not.

GreenFin · 02-04-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harveyc

I would guess the chances of Agri-Starts having a true GM strain are about 50% since both Jon has something that doesn't look right and we had another member here selling plants he got somewhere that were supposedly GM but not.

Were those plants from Agri-Starts or some other origin?

momoese · 02-04-2012, 04:13 PM

Hey do what ya want, I'm just telling you that "I" would rather buy a corm from a plant that is known to be the real deal, and I know others that feel the same way. My garden is very small so I don't want to chance growing out a tc for for 2 or 3 years just to find it's not a GM or whatever I was looking for.

No negativity, just my opinion.

And that said, I'm sure there are lots of people on the board that would want to gamble on that. You could ask Richard to help as he buys from them frequently.

sunfish · 02-04-2012, 04:39 PM

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...JWwTLg&cad=rja

gros michel banana | eBay

sunfish · 02-04-2012, 04:44 PM

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...vBhc_g&cad=rja

Thailandplant.com

GreenFin · 02-04-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunfish

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...vBhc_g&cad=rja

Thailandplant.com

Bob has a thread about trying to order from that source: Kluai Hom Tong ( Gros Michel)

Quote:

It took the package a month to arrive though and the corm was partially rotted

[...]

If you're going to brag about any successes you might as well admit the failures..... it's dead as a doornail and did nothing but rot in its pot.... was worth a try though.

sunfish · 02-04-2012, 05:30 PM

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GreenFin · 02-04-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunfish

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Get fast shipping and excellent service from eBay Top-rated sellers.

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I saw that, but would be more interested in 1) his success regarding shipping healthy corms to the U.S., and 2) any positive/negative experiences of those on this board in dealing with him.

There are tons of examples from members of this board receiving healthy, correctly labeled plants from Agri-Starts. Are there a lot (or any?) examples of this guy sending healthy, correctly labeled corms to members of this board?

venturabananas · 02-04-2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenFin

If your ideal scenario were actually a realistic option, I'm sure most of us would go that route. But the whole context of the thread is that it isn't realistic because there isn't a simple source with 100% known GM corms. That's the whole point. That's why we need an alternative source.

Hopefully we'll get enough people together to give this latest alternative a shot. Even if the odds are a paltry 50% that they have real GM, that makes this a tremendously promising, low risk/high reward opportunity to solve our GM availability problem. And if successful, we'll have corms to share with you

I'm having a tough time seeing this as anything other than an exciting opportunity that gives us a substantial possibility of success (50% or better?) at solving a major problem for many of us. Definitely worth the risk for me!

I think Momoese's point was simply that you shouldn't count on the "Gros Michel" TC starts being correctly identified. Provided everyone going in on the purchase of these flats understands that, then they can be educated gamblers. Depending on your yard space, etc., that might be a reasonable gamble for a chance at getting what is a difficult to obtain plant. For me, I don't have the space in my yard to devote to a gamble that will take me 2 years or so to see if I won. I believe you can find several posts that document major screw ups on flats of TC'd bananas from Agristarts (look for some of Nick's posts, for example). Based on my very limited sample of 6 TC'd bananas from Florida growers (don't know the ultimate source, but likely Agristarts), half are misidentified. The TC operation or the grower could have made the mistake. A year ago, when I had space in my yard, I would have gone in on an order of GM from Agristarts. Now I'll wait to see what happens with this order, before I chop down a mat of healthy banana plants to make room for a possible GM. Taking out a mat of healthy bananas to make room for one you are unsure about is a high risk to me. The risk:reward ratio depends on your circumstances. I hope they are the real GM (which is a BIG plant) and a bunch of you "orgers" end up with them happily growing in your yards.

GreenFin · 02-04-2012, 10:47 PM

Something else I just thought of, too, is that our resaler would be able to order as few as 18 GM plants, rather than two trays full of GM. For example, if someone like Richard wanted 1.75 trays of something like DC for his own nursery business, then he could order one tray of DC and a 2nd tray that has 54 DC's and 18 GM's. Agri-Starts would add an $18 "mixed tray" fee to his order, but that wouldn't be a big deal (distributed solely over the GM's, since they're what are triggering the extra fee, it would only add $1 to the price that we'd have to pay him).

I think the odds are good we could find homes for 18 GM's among our members here

harveyc · 02-04-2012, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenFin

Were those plants from Agri-Starts or some other origin?

I doubt either Jon or just_j had got there's from Agri-Starts as I don't believe Agri-Starts had been offering them before.

Your enthusiasm is nice to see. Don't lose it.

Agri-Starts doesn't have any inside line on a source so I'm skeptical that they would have the real deal absent some evidence from them to change my mind. They say they have a mother plant. It would me helpful to see it, especially if it's in flower, to help ID it.

Many of us have spent money and several years growing a plant only to learn later it's been wasted on the wrong plant. What you've perceived as negativity might really be wisdom.

sunfish · 02-04-2012, 11:06 PM

If I had room I would be in for a few. I have so many plants I've been putting them in the trash.I wonder if the Miramar landfill will have bananas ,palms ,dragon fruit and passion vines sprouting in a couple years

momoese · 02-05-2012, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunfish

If I had room I would be in for a few. I have so many plants I've been putting them in the trash.I wonder if the Miramar landfill will have bananas ,palms ,dragon fruit and passion vines sprouting in a couple years

Gabe15 · 02-05-2012, 03:01 AM

Maybe someone should ask for some photos of the out planted 'Gros Michel' source plant Agri-starts is using for their TC lines. They are rather distinctive plants.

GreenFin · 02-05-2012, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe15

Maybe someone should ask for some photos of the out planted 'Gros Michel' source plant Agri-starts is using for their TC lines. They are rather distinctive plants.

I emailed some follow-up questions to AgriStarts a couple of hours ago:

Quote:

Hi Heather,

Some members are skeptical about whether your Gros Michel is legit. Will you please answer these questions to help us out?

1) How do you know that your Gros Michel is actually a Gros Michel? (Did you verify it via genetic analysis?)

2) Have you grown out and fruited your Gros Michel? (If so, do you have any pictures of this?)

3) Where did your specimen(s) come from?

I really appreciate your help with this, and I'm sorry for the hassle.

Yug · 02-05-2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe15

Maybe someone should ask for some photos of the out planted 'Gros Michel' source plant Agri-starts is using for their TC lines. They are rather distinctive plants.

Actually, that is a great idea. With orchids we love to have photos of the parent plant if we are purchasing a mericlone or even a division (almost like a pup); or if it is a cross, knowing the parent plants used to make the cross can give some insight into what you might expect from the progeny. Of course, even with a photo, tags can still get mixed up... Then it depends on the integrity of the seller to 'make it right'.

GreenFin · 02-11-2012, 01:45 PM

I received an update from Agri-Starts: the salesperson forwarded the questions I sent (see post #177 above) to their lab director and expects answers next week.

Yug · 02-11-2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momoese

Hey do what ya want, I'm just telling you that "I" would rather buy a corm from a plant that is known to be the real deal, and I know others that feel the same way. My garden is very small so I don't want to chance growing out a tc for for 2 or 3 years just to find it's not a GM or whatever I was looking for.

No negativity, just my opinion.

And that said, I'm sure there are lots of people on the board that would want to gamble on that. You could ask Richard to help as he buys from them frequently.

I just went back and re-read this thread, and I noticed your post. You would probably not waste 2 or 3 years to discover it is not a GM. This is why: look for 'blood' marks on the immature plant, and next look for open petiole channels tinged in red. The photos I've posted are of a plant that is only a few months old, and it is already displaying classic GM characteristics. If yours doens't exhibit those traits, you would probably be safe in tossing it out. Gabe once told me that the traits for some bananas may not manifest themselves until the plant is mature. If my little GM is any indicator, you shouldn't have to wait that long for this type.

GreenFin · 02-13-2012, 02:42 PM

Just heard back from Agri-Starts:

Quote:

Here’s what I have for you right now, our Gros Michel cultures came directly from the USDA so they are true to type. We received them invitro, not a mother plant, so I have not seen them grown out. We’ve only had them in production a short time but I imagine that we will plant some out this spring.

What are others' thoughts on this reply?

What are the odds that the USDA's Gros Michel is indeed Gros Michel? Is the USDA ultra reliable? I would think/hope so, but I have no experience in these matters.

venturabananas · 02-13-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenFin

Just heard back from Agri-Starts:

What are others' thoughts on this reply?

What are the odds that the USDA's Gros Michel is indeed Gros Michel? Is the USDA ultra reliable? I would think/hope so, but I have no experience in these matters.

I would trust the USDA on this. It is their job to identify and preserve unique plants used in agriculture.

ARS | Publication request: Phenotypic Characterization of the USDA-ARS Tropical Agriculture Research Station Banana Germplasm Collection

02-04-2012, 03:38 PM	#161 (permalink)
harveyc Been nuts, gone bananas harveyc's Photo Gallery Location: Isleton, Calif Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Harvey Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 5,123 BananaBucks : 411,735 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 6,035 Times Was Thanked 4,467 Times in 1,899 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,785 Times	Re: Gros Michel Sometime in 2005 I ordered three different banana varieties from Wellspring Nursery (on eBay), Dwarf Orinoco, Raja Puri, and Ice Cream. I don't think any of them were what they were sold to be. I read somewhere a year or two later where Wellspring said there had been some mix-up with Agri-Starts and that Wellspring had made it right with this other customer. I later wrote to Wellspring to discuss this since I thought they might help me figure out what they had sent me. They didn't really seem to know what I was talking about (so I question the other post I had read), and they said they were confident they had labeled the plants correctly according to what Agri-Starts sent them. I would guess the chances of Agri-Starts having a true GM strain are about 50% since both Jon has something that doesn't look right and we had another member here selling plants he got somewhere that were supposedly GM but not. __________________

02-04-2012, 04:13 PM	#163 (permalink)
momoese Banana grower momoese's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Zone: zone 10 Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,593 BananaBucks : 12,668 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,758 Times Was Thanked 10,896 Times in 3,314 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 730 Times	Re: Gros Michel Hey do what ya want, I'm just telling you that "I" would rather buy a corm from a plant that is known to be the real deal, and I know others that feel the same way. My garden is very small so I don't want to chance growing out a tc for for 2 or 3 years just to find it's not a GM or whatever I was looking for. No negativity, just my opinion. And that said, I'm sure there are lots of people on the board that would want to gamble on that. You could ask Richard to help as he buys from them frequently. Last edited by momoese : 02-04-2012 at 04:23 PM.

02-04-2012, 04:39 PM	#164 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,417,286 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,593 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Gros Michel http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...JWwTLg&cad=rja gros michel banana \| eBay

02-04-2012, 04:44 PM	#165 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,417,286 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,593 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Gros Michel http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...vBhc_g&cad=rja Thailandplant.com

02-04-2012, 05:30 PM	#167 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,417,286 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,593 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Gros Michel Top-rated seller program - opens in a new window or tab Member id thailandplant ( Feedback Score Of 1855Red star icon for feedback score in between 1,000 to 4,999) About member 100% Positive feedback Get fast shipping and excellent service from eBay Top-rated sellers. Consistently receives highest buyers' ratings Ships items quickly Has earned a track record of excellent service **** High Recommend EMS Shipping Service for this plant. If you would like us ship it by EMS, please contact me, which you have to pay the increased shipping cost for EMS.

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02-04-2012, 10:47 PM	#170 (permalink)
GreenFin Location: Kansas Zone: 6a Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 595 BananaBucks : 101,068 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,396 Times Was Thanked 939 Times in 334 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 44 Times	Re: Gros Michel Something else I just thought of, too, is that our resaler would be able to order as few as 18 GM plants, rather than two trays full of GM. For example, if someone like Richard wanted 1.75 trays of something like DC for his own nursery business, then he could order one tray of DC and a 2nd tray that has 54 DC's and 18 GM's. Agri-Starts would add an $18 "mixed tray" fee to his order, but that wouldn't be a big deal (distributed solely over the GM's, since they're what are triggering the extra fee, it would only add $1 to the price that we'd have to pay him). I think the odds are good we could find homes for 18 GM's among our members here __________________ Set out runnin', but I'll take my time; a friend of bananas is a friend of mine. www.GreenFinGardens.com

02-04-2012, 11:06 PM	#172 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,417,286 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,593 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Gros Michel If I had room I would be in for a few. I have so many plants I've been putting them in the trash.I wonder if the Miramar landfill will have bananas ,palms ,dragon fruit and passion vines sprouting in a couple years

02-05-2012, 03:01 AM	#174 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,459,357 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,244 Times in 2,201 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: Gros Michel Maybe someone should ask for some photos of the out planted 'Gros Michel' source plant Agri-starts is using for their TC lines. They are rather distinctive plants. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

02-11-2012, 01:45 PM	#177 (permalink)
GreenFin Location: Kansas Zone: 6a Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 595 BananaBucks : 101,068 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,396 Times Was Thanked 939 Times in 334 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 44 Times	Re: Gros Michel I received an update from Agri-Starts: the salesperson forwarded the questions I sent (see post #177 above) to their lab director and expects answers next week. __________________ Set out runnin', but I'll take my time; a friend of bananas is a friend of mine. www.GreenFinGardens.com

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