Gabe15

In regards to bananas specifically, the GMO issue has one main goal, disease and pest resistance. There are 2 ways to create new varieties that are disease resistant, conventional breeding and the GMO route. The big issue on this subejct is which to use. For the past 25 years, breeders have been creating countless varieties of improved banana through conventional breeding, although it takes a lot of work and time, it is possible and thats how we have varieties such as Goldfinger which is already being grown commercially in Australia as a Cavendish replacement. These improved and commercial ready plants are perfect and ready to go into plantations, but why arent they you may ask? The GMO companies insist that a "new banana" will turn off consumers because suddenly the banana isnt quite how it used to be, so there plan is "lets spend millions of dollars to improve the Cavendish through GMO", instead of using a plant such as Goldfinger which is already in existance, unlike these "GMO super bananas". In reality though, new banana varieties taste a lot better to new people, Cavendish is a very ordinary, plain, and in regards to whats out there, a very low quality banana. anyways. Its all about money, the GMO companies need some kind of excuse to play with DNA and get paid for it. Now, there are some potentially great uses for GMO in bananas, there are some issued that have not been adressed with conventional breeding, but in the case of large scale export banana trade, GMO is in my opinion just stupid.

__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

MediaHound

Gabe is doing some banana breeding research.

__________________
Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

momoese

Joe, just curious if they tested on humans, what product did they test, how extensive was the testing, and how long ago did it take place, in other words, have the subjects had adequate time to show symptoms yet?

JoeReal

Mitchel what they did, as in the case of Flavr Savr tomato is showed the extensive chemical analyses, nutrient contents, and indeed showed it has more and better antioxidants and vitamins. They also have to apply permits from FDA after submitting those analyses, to have a go for animal trials, then after observing animals for an approved time frame, then actual taste tests by adventurous humans for the sake of scientific advancements, being paid or volunteered willingly, signing disclaimers, waiving your rights to sue, etc. But that is very simplistically said. For the other GMO crops whose analysis haven't done by trusted friends, they can't make me try them out, unless they pay me full amount of my insurance benefits.

JoeReal

Also take note, I participated in one, it doesn't mean this is the process for all. Laws and regulations may have dramatically changed since then, that was more than ten years ago.

momoese

Joe, here is a little mention of the tomato test you speak of. Doesn't sound so great here.

"The unacceptably wide range of rat starting weights (±18% to ±23%) invalidated these findings.
No histology on the intestines was done even though stomach sections showed mild/moderate erosive/necrotic lesions in up to seven out of twenty female rats but none in the controls. However, these were considered to be of no importance, although in humans they could lead to life-endangering hemorrhage, particularly in the elderly who use aspirin to prevent thrombosis.
Seven out of forty rats on GM tomatoes died within two weeks for unstated reasons.
These studies were poorly designed and therefore the conclusion that FLAVR SAVRTM tomatoes were safe does not rest on good science, questioning the validity of the FDA's decision that no toxicological testing of other GM foods will in future be required."

The whole story can be found here.

http://www.actionbioscience.org/biotech/pusztai.html

JoeReal

Well, I ate only two whole pieces of fruit, I think it was worth it for the sake of science, now I am having goose bumps, and won't be able to sleep tonight! Just kidding.

I will die someday, might as well help others one way or another. Thanks for the links, I have another set of articles to grill some of my friends. I just hope that the site you mentioned contained credible scientific links which I am hard pressed to evaluate at the moment.

Lookie these articles:
http://www.accessexcellence.org/RC/A...r_Arrives.html
http://dragon.zoo.utoronto.ca/~jlm20...ods_index.html

momoese

Just dream of wearing your space suit, munching on some tasty GM naners while floating through space and time! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ lol

JoeReal

That would be the day, or I mean night!

momoese

Erland, here is a few more reasons.

2006 Genetic Engineering News
11/21 - US Still Trying to Force GMOs on Europe
11/20 - Global Market for Genetically Engineered Seeds Reaches $6.5 Billion
11/17 - Biotechnology in Puerto Rico: Myths and Hazards
11/12 - Monsanto Vows to Force its Genetically Engineered Corn on Mexico
11/09 - Racketeering Charges Filed Against Donald Rumsfeld & Monsanto
11/08 - Monsanto Moving to Gain Global Cotton Monopoly
11/08 - More on Bayer/USDA Biotech Rice Fiasco
11/07 - Supercows & Glowing Pigs--The Brave New World of Genetic Engineering
11/03 - Consumer Demand for rBGH-Free Milk Growing, Dairies Responding, and Monsanto is Upset
11/03 - Health Hazards of Genetically Engineered Foods--Serious Scientific Questions
11/01 - Mexico Slams the Door on Gene-Altered Corn
11/01 - Biotech Bullies Still Trying to Force Frankenfoods on EU
10/31 - Romania Harvests Trouble With Its GM Crops
10/28 - Is Gene-Splicing an Obsolete Technology?
10/28 - U.S. Embassy Keeps Pressing the Vatican to Back Genetically Engineered Crops
10/26 - Organic Rice Companies Impacted by GM Rice Contamination
10/26 - Scientists to Study Whether GE Foods Can Cause Food Allergies
10/26 - EU Consumers Demand Better Monitoring of GE Contaminated USA Exports
10/26 - Genetically Engineered Grapes Have South Africa's Wine Producers Alarmed
10/20 - Another GE Rice from Bayer Contaminates EU Food Supplies
10/20 - Mexico Rejects Biotech Corn
10/19 - EPA's Nanotech Regs: Ironic Parameters
10/18 - Monsanto Vice President Joins the Gates Foundation
10/17 - Biotech instills fear and loathing in California rice belt
10/14 - GE Technology out of Control: Contamination from Genetically Engineered Rice in Middle East
10/12 - Hundreds of Personal Care Products Contain Untested Hazardous Nano-scale Ingredients
10/11 - N.Y. Times Cites Consumers Union & OCA--Nanotech Food is Ten Times Scarier Than Genetically Engineered
10/11 - Univ. of Hawaii Cuts off Funding after Failing to Silence Anti-Biotech Professor
10/11 - Washington Growers Plant Controversial Biopharm Safflower for Canadian Drug Firm
10/09 - Beginning of the End for Monsanto's Genetically Engineered Bovine Growth Hormone
10/08 - Vermont Secretary of Agriculture Calls for an End to Injecting Cows with Monsanto's Bovine Growth Hormone
10/04 - Government Pushes for Bioprospecting in U.S. National Parks
10/03 - Rice Industry: Keep Genetically Engineered Varieties in the Lab
10/02 - Despite National Controversy Biopharming Center Planned for Kansas
10/02 - India Halts Field Trials of Genetically Engineered Crops
10/02 - WTO Ruling on GMOs Threatens EU Precautionary Approach
09/30 - World?s Largest Rice Company Halts All Imports from USA
09/28 - Call to Stop All Rice Imports from the U.S. After Contamination by GMO Variety
09/28 - Monsanto's GE Crops Spawn Herbicide-Resistant Weeds in North Carolina
09/27 - Parents Demand for Milk Free of Monsanto's Genetically Engineered Bovine Growth Hormone Changing Dynamics of Marketplace
09/26 - Major Dairies in New England Dropping Monsanto's Bovine Growth Hormone
09/26 - GM Yeast Enters US Wine Production
09/26 - Open Letter to the FDA to Stop Corporations from Lacing Foods, Body Care Products, & Supplements with Dangerous Nanoparticles
09/24 - Bill Gates/Rockefeller Programs to Alleviate Hunger in Africa Via GMOs and Industrialized Farming Are Doomed
09/22 - Is Monsanto Playing Fast and Loose With Roundup Ready Soybeans in Argentina?
09/22 - Do the Gene Engineers Know Best?
09/22 - A Slight Taint of Biotech Rice Puts Farmers' Overseas Sales in Peril
09/20 - Consumer Demand Causes Most New England Dairies to Ban Monsanto's Controversial Bovine Growth Hormone
09/20 - USDA Urged to Deny Approval of Illegal Genetically Engineered Rice Found in Food Chain
09/20 - Genetically Engineered Plums May Not Find a Willing Market
09/19 - Genetically Engineered Foods: Experimenting with Our Food Supply
09/13 - US Illegal GE Rice Contamination Spreads Further into Europe
09/13 - Will Growing Corn Crops for Fuel Leave the World Hungry?
09/12 - Genetically Modified Wheat Still Shunned
09/12 - USDA to Rubber-Stamp Contamination of Food with Illegal, Genetically Engineered Rice
09/08 - Illegal, Likely Allergenic Genetically Engineered Chinese Rice Discovered in Europe
09/08 - Unapproved GM Rice from China Pops Up in European Stores
09/08 - GE Crops Destroying Monarch Butterfly Habitat
09/07 - When genetically modified plants go wild
09/07 - Controversy over GE Rice Contamination Continues
09/06 - GMO Chinese Rice Found in EU
09/05 - USDA Says GM Crop Plantings Increased 9.5% Over Last Year
09/05 - EU Official Says U.S. Government Puts Corporations Over Consumers
09/05 - From GMO to Nano: A Familiar Debate Over A New Technology
09/05 - Bayer: Contaminated Rice & Pain Relief
08/31 - BioDemocracy Safe in California, for Now
08/31 - US Oversight of Biotech Crops Seen Lacking
08/31 - Consumer Pressure Causing Wal-Mart & Others to Request rBGH-Free Milk from their Suppliers
08/31 - New Book 'Genetically Modified (GM) Food: A Guide for the Confused'
08/31 - Almost Entire Crop of USA Long Grain Rice Contaminated by Genetically Modified Organisms
08/30 - U.S. Rice Contaminated by Genetically Engineered Weedkiller Variety Sold for Months Before Public Disclosure
08/30 - Biotech Bullying: Showdown on Bill Restricting County Rights in California This Week
08/29 - Monsanto Whistleblower Says Genetically Engineered Crops May Cause Disease
08/28 - US rice farmers sue Bayer CropScience over GM rice
08/28 - More on Global Fallout from Genetic Contamination of U.S. Rice
08/28 - Biotech Bullying: California Legislature Votes to Take Away the Rights of Counties to Ban Genetically Engineered Crops
08/25 - Is the Mainstream Media Starting to Turn Away from Genetic Engineering?
08/25 - U.S. rice dives as GMO issue stirs export fears
08/22 - Escaped GE bentgrass sounds a warning
08/22 - American Rice Banned in Many Countries After Genetic Contamination
08/21 - Check to See if You Local Dairy is Using Monsanto's Bovine Growth Hormone
08/21 - Bayer Admits Gene-Altered Rice Has Contaminated Food Supply
08/21 - New Book Exposes the Hazards of Bovine Growth Hormone by Dr. Samuel Epstein
08/18 - Study: Monsanto's Genetically Engineered Grasses Will 'Wreak Havoc' on Native Species
08/18 - Debate over Biocrops heats up in California
08/17 - Monsanto Announces Takeover of Delta & Pine Cotton Seed and Terminator Seed Technology
08/17 - Public Opposition to GE Crops Increasing
08/17 - Monsanto Moves Closer to Monopoly Control over Cotton Seeds
08/16 - Organic Versus Industrial Milk--Are We Winning the Battle?
08/16 - Federal Judge Castigates Biotech Industry for Planting Gene-Altered Crops that Will Spread Genetic Pollution
08/15 - Biopharm: First US Federal Court Order on Environmental Impacts
08/10 - Genetically Engineered Grass Spreading into the Wild in Oregon
08/04 - Overview of Field Trials of Biopharmaceutical Crops Across the World
08/04 - Protestors, With Public Support, Keep Destroying Genetically Engineered Crops in France
08/04 - Citizens Report on the Health Hazards of Genetically Engineered Foods & Crops
08/04 - Why genetic engineering is dangerous
08/03 - Plantations, Indigenous Rights, & Genetically Engineered Trees
08/03 - Risks of Growing Genetically Engineered Cotton Have Been Covered Up
08/03 - Study Shows Pollen from Genetically Engineered, Bt Spliced Crops, Deadly to Butterflies
08/02 - San Luis Obispo Citizen Report on the Health Effects of GE Foods
2/28 - Civil Society Slams BIO PR Lies
2/27 - This Week's Biggest Environment, Health and Consumer News Tidbits (Organic Bytes #76)
2/24 - Approving Genetically Modified Crops : A Bureaucratic Ecology
2/24 - Public Interest Groups & Farmers Sue Monsanto Over Genetically Engineered Alfalfa
2/17 - Biotech's Sparse Harvest
2/17 - New Suspicions About Genetically Modified Organisms
2/17 - 2005: A Scary Year for GE Crops
2/16 - White House Master Plan to Force Frankenfoods & Crops on the World
2/14 - France Debates GMO Contamination Law
2/13 - New York Bill Would Require Labels on GE Seeds
2/13 - U.S. Wheat Industry Wants to Bring Monsanto & Syngenta's Gene-Altered Frankenwheat Back from the Grave
2/12 - Despite Industry Claims, Insect Resistant GE Crops Will Not Reduce Use of Toxic Pesticides
2/10 - Illnesses & Deaths in Philippines Linked to Gene-Altered Corn
2/10 - This Week's Biggest Consumer, Health and Environmental News Tidbits (Organic Bytes #75)
2/10 - EU Steadfast in Rejecting Genetically Engineered Food, Despite WTO Pressure
2/7 - People Say No to WTO Attempt to Force GMOs on the Public
2/7 - Background Articles on Genetically Engineered Crops & Biosafety
2/6 - OCA & Other NGOs: Gene-Altered Foods Will Remain a Losing Proposition for U.S. Farmers - Despite WTO Decision
2/6 - WTO Trade Ruling Latest Attempt by White House & Biotech Industry to Force GE Foods on an Unwilling Europe
2/6 - WTO Trade Ruling Latest Attempt by White House & Biotech Industry to Force GE Foods on an Unwilling Europe
2/4 - Vatican Ponders Endorsement of GE Frankenfoods & Crops
2/4 - Illinois Farm Bureau & Monsanto Disagree on Technology Fees When Farmers Save Their GE Soybean Seeds
2/3 - Genetically Engineered Seed Labeling Law in Vermont Not Being Enforced
2/2 - Farmers In Africa & India Reject Monsanto's Gene-Altered Cotton
2/2 - How to Avoid Eating Genetically Engineered Foods
1/31 - Moratorium on Terminator Technology Reaffirmed, but with Qualifications
1/30 - Consumer Alert: Terminator is Back from the Grave
1/27 - "Suicide Seeds" Could Spell Death of Peasant Agriculture
1/26 - Week's Biggest Environment & Health News Tidbits (Organic Bytes #74)
1/24 - Austria Bans Monsanto's Genetically Engineered Canola
1/24 - The EU Must Resist U.S. Pressure and Protect Consumer Rights on GE Foods
1/23 - Once Again WE Must Act to Stop the Terminator Seed Technology
1/20 - Monsanto & Biotech Monopolies Sued for Forcing Frankencrops Seeds on Farmers
1/20 - A Decade Later: Are GE Crops Winning Hearts and Minds?
1/20 - Biotech Bullies Monsanto & Dow Make a Deal
1/19 - With GE Soybean Food Safety in Doubt, Biotech Turns to Biodiesel
1/19 - Un-Spinning the Spin Masters on Genetically Engineered Food
1/19 - National Regulations Should Reflect Risks of GE Crops
1/18 - Big Biotech Going After Community Control in Michigan
1/17 - GE Frankencrops Continue to Spread Worldwide
1/12 - Monsanto Moves to Force-Feed Europe Genetically Engineered Corn
1/12 - This Week's Biggest Food, Health and Environment News Tidbits (Organic Bytes #73)
1/12 - Ten Years of Genetically Modified Crops Fail to Deliver Benefits to Africa
1/11 - Indian Farmers Sue Monsanto Over Bt Cotton
1/11 - Native Hawaiians to Protest Biotechnology Conference
1/10 - Terminator Technology, Like Frankenstein, is Back from the Grave
1/10 - US & Canadian Grocers and Co-ops Launch Non-GMO Certification Project
1/10 - The Global Spread of Genetically Modified Crops
1/9 - New Study Shows Unborn Babies Could Be Harmed by Genetically Engineered Foods
1/5 - GM foods verdict unlikely to alter EU rules
1/5 - Vermont Legislature Waters Down GMO Crops Liability Bill
1/2 - USDA Slammed for Failing to Monitor Pharmaceutical Frankencrops
1/2 - Kraft Promises to Stop Selling Frankenfoods in China--What About the USA?
1/2 - Concern in EU Over Contamination of Organic Food & Crops with GMOs
1/2 - New GM Law Threatens Iraq’s Wheat Heritage
1/2 - Vermont May Become First State to Extend Protection to Farmers from GMO Contamination

Almost forgot the link to all this wonderful news.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/gelink.cfm

momoese

How about some milk from this GE beast to go with you GM corn Flakes? :2780:

JoeReal

Does this one says moo?

STEELVIPER

__________________

momoese

Not sure if it talks but from what I can gather it makes fat free milk and it's three times the size of a regular cow.

JoeReal

Oh man!!!
What will they think of next?

momoese

Sugar free gum

mrbungalow

GMO or not, that cow made me want a big STEAK right now!

__________________

MediaHound

^That says it all

__________________
Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

bigdog

Wow, where have I been? Nice discussion here! I am a student (again) at UT-Knoxville, and am majoring in Plant Sciences - Science and Biotechnology. I'm still early on in my courses, so no biotech courses yet. I have had discussions with Neal Stewart, a faculty member and biotech guy there. I find this area to be particularly fascinating, as the possibilities are seemingly endless! I am interested in the ornamental side though, not really the agricultural side so much. Unfortunately, there are only a small handful of companies involved in transgenic ornamentals, so looks like I'll probably start out with the ag side.

Mitchell and Mike, I respect your opinions on GMOs, but disagree with your outlook. Mitchell, I also found this article on that first website:
http://www.actionbioscience.org/biotech/borlaug.html
Seems that biotechnology isn't the devil in disguise after all!

As for the second website, here is their agenda, taken directly from their website:

OCA's overall political program is the Organic Agenda 2005-15, a six-point platform calling for:

The conversion of American agriculture to at least 30% organic by the year 2015, including major reforms in agricultural subsidies and appropriations to help family farmers make the transition to organic, develop local and regional markets, and adopt renewable energy practices.

Fair Trade and economic justice, not so-called corporate-driven "Free Trade" as the global norm.

A global moratorium on genetically engineered foods and crops.

I stopped there, after seeing that it is a painfully biased website. I am all for organic foods, and buy them frequently myself. I even have a garden and grow my own organic foods! For them to call for a "global moratorium" on GMOs makes me sick. Let's look at some of the GOOD things that biotechnology has done for the world:

Golden Rice. Developed in 1999, this rice has beta-carotene (and hence, Vitamin A) in it. In many third world countries, kids are going blind from vitamin A deficiency, and later dying from malnutrition. It's no secret that rice is a staple crop in lots of these countries, and sometimes the only food for people to eat. However, rice (as it exists naturally) has no vitamin A in it. Golden Rice, a GMO, does have Vit. A. Also, this rice is being provided to these countries at no cost! There goes Mike's theory of companies trying to bleed 3rd world countries completely dry. Here's more on Golden Rice: http://www.goldenrice.org/

Neal Stewart, mentioned earlier, is involved with a transgenic plant (that I can't remember what it is) that is able to detect TNT in the soil. When a laser is beamed at it from above, it will glow fluorescent if TNT is underneath it. This plant is to be used to detect land mines in areas of the world where there are still large mine fields.

As already brought up, we in the U.S. eat transgenic corn and soybeans every day. No ill effects have been detected as of yet. Yes, there are some allergens associated with some GMOs, but no more than with naturally occurring plants! People fear what they do not know. I agree that the ramifications of GMOs haven't yet been fully realized, especially as to the effects to other species of plants that may accept pollen from these GMOs and produce seed. Last time I checked, the average life expectancy in this country was still going up also. Before 1940, all food produced in this country was organic. There are some naturally occurring, organic plants that we eat, that can have trace amounts of harmful chemicals in them that are toxic or carcinogenic.

OK, enough about that. Just wanted to represent the other side of the debate is all.

Bananas are notoriously difficult to transform anyway. It can and has been done, but not easily. I have looked into it already, and have some great ideas of my own. They will probably never be fully realized though, unless I end up being a biotech researcher at a university. This is one of the only companies (it may be THE only one) that uses transgenics on the ornamental side: http://www.florigene.com/
Guess I could move to Australia!

mikevan

The rice is under license and not "free" even if the current terms of that license requires no financial compensation, and once you get them used to a product, it's a simple matter to begin profiting off it, much like drug dealers do for newcomers (something I've seen personally). Interestingly, to eat enough of that rice to match the vit A in a couple tablespoons of sweet-potatoes would leave one quite bloated - it's more a marketing gimmick than an actually useful product. After all, how many kids do you know that can eat 300 grams of this stuff for a mere 20% of the recommended vitamin A intake? And yet, the problem may not even be there - dietary fat is required for the body to be able to uptake vitamin a - and I don't see too many Indonesian children gnawing on a t-bone, donchaknow! So even then far less of this vitamin a is available! Making the rice all but useless as a dietary means of nutrition. It's purpose is to give people a warm and fuzzy feeling about GMO, rather than actually help people. Don't forget that little testing of this rice has occurred. Sure, what can a daffodil gene do? But there's also genetics from a bacterium in there too. When mixing things willy nilly, you can never be certain of all the risks and safety, not to mention the possible allergens - something that will be a problem here since the GMO industry has prevented us from knowing what's in our food.

As to ill effects of eating corn - none have been publicly disclosed and here in the GMO USA, the threat of discerning and disclosing clear GMO causes of disease bear heavy penalties to doctors who wish to continue working.

As with that mine-detecting plant - again, there is nothing that cannot be accomplished with selective breeding and research than what is happening with GMO's. There's even a strain of oyster mushroom that consumes waste oil in soil! Just gotta look for what's already there than our insistence on corrupting what we can.

Nevertheless, input from the Dark Side isn't bad - but don't criticize bias - you're have every reason for your own bias since you intend your career to be in biotechnology.

Mike