Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them.

Wills · 10-17-2013, 07:18 AM

I live about 60 miles north of Tampa Florida and have a IceCream that has been in the ground 4 years. The plant grows wonderfully is huge but always blooms too late. Right now have a bunch of bananas on it from a flower in Mid September and another flag now. The plant grows in a mat and in the past two years have restricted it to one main and it blooms too late so this time I figured the shot gun approach so it had 3 main stems and a pup left on each.

The plants are irrigated on a timer twice per day plus I have a very small (concrete mixing tub) pond for the ducks in the middle of the banana clump so they get extra water from that and manure. The plants are fertilized heavily, they get all the duck house manure and that is from 20 ducks.

We always get at least 3 frosts a year, been here 10 years and have not had a frost free winter yet. So my question is should I cut the flowering stalks down? Should I just cut off the bananas / flower so the energy goes in to growing the pups so perhaps they will have a chance to flower early enough next summer? You would think with a 10 month growing season it would not be that hard to get a mature bunch of bananas.

Any tips, ideas or guidance is very welcome.

Abnshrek · 10-17-2013, 07:33 AM

I have the same happen w/ my orinoco mat up here.. but I'm going to let a number of pups come up next year and see what I get the following year. Seeing this happen on my Orinoco mat that's why I let multiple grow on many other mats (not the DB), but especially on my Namwah, and Goldfinger mats. :^)

venturabananas · 10-17-2013, 11:44 AM

This is based on advice from others, not personal experience, because frost is a rarity at my house, so take it for what it's worth. Basically you need to watch your banana plants carefully enough that you learn when a pup that comes up in any particular month will flower. You then remove all pups that come up in other months that will cause them to flower so late that any bunch they produce will be ruined by frost. You might find, for example, that pups that come up in Feb-May of one year will flower by June-July of the next year, giving them enough time to ripen the bunch before frost in say December. A wrinkle is that you don't want them to flower right after winter, when all their leaves have been burned off by frost and so they don't have the energy to fill the fruit.

It sounds pretty simple in theory, but requires meticulous observations and records on your part to make it work. I know a couple of guys who use this system effectively.

If you still have a couple months of potential growth before your first frost, then I'd probably remove the plants with bunches that you are sure are going to be killed by frost. Then they won't be shading pups that can grow a little faster and maybe fruit in late spring/early summer next year.

Good luck.

caliboy1994 · 10-17-2013, 01:21 PM

I got unlucky last year and got a Raja Puri bloom in November, which is actually outside our normal growing season here. We got (I think) a few light frosts, which is rare in my area. The fruits were killed by the prolonged cold. Now, I know our winters are different. California winters are much longer (about 5 months of off season where it's too cold for growth, at least in my area) with more consistent cold, so you at least have a better chance than I do. Especially because you have an Ice Cream, whose fruit are more hardy. I say leave it on the stalk and see what happens.

Darkman · 10-17-2013, 03:30 PM

Maybe you are overfertilizing causing too much vegetative growth. I am North of you and my mats received almost no fertilizer only heavy much and lots of rain this year. I have somewhere around 15 bunches. Abnshrek has seen my mats and I let everything grow.

Wills · 10-17-2013, 04:09 PM

Charles,

You mean you do not thin out pups at all?

ez · 10-17-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venturabananas

This is based on advice from others, not personal experience, because frost is a rarity at my house, so take it for what it's worth. Basically you need to watch your banana plants carefully enough that you learn when a pup that comes up in any particular month will flower. You then remove all pups that come up in other months that will cause them to flower so late that any bunch they produce will be ruined by frost. You might find, for example, that pups that come up in Feb-May of one year will flower by June-July of the next year, giving them enough time to ripen the bunch before frost in say December. A wrinkle is that you don't want them to flower right after winter, when all their leaves have been burned off by frost and so they don't have the energy to fill the fruit.

It sounds pretty simple in theory, but requires meticulous observations and records on your part to make it work. I know a couple of guys who use this system effectively.

If you still have a couple months of potential growth before your first frost, then I'd probably remove the plants with bunches that you are sure are going to be killed by frost. Then they won't be shading pups that can grow a little faster and maybe fruit in late spring/early summer next year.

Good luck.

I use this method and it's very effective.

Darkman · 10-17-2013, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wills

Charles,

You mean you do not thin out pups at all?

Only if I am giving some away!

I have never thinned although I believe that it would be necessary if we had a cold Winter. Your Winter is like what we have experienced for the last two years. The frost will defoliate the P-stem but not hurt it. New leaves will push and it will continue to grow. I had a very late frost this year in early mid March and I still have very good results. I have eaten bananas for the last three years off my mats. I have one mat that has four bunches hanging. I have two mats with two bunches. The one with the four hanging had produced three more but they came too early and had no leaves to support them. My mats will not support a defoiliated P-stem with a bunch attached. I know that this is contrary to advice given but I can only tell you what works here. It is all defined by where you live. The advice you get from a more Northerly climate may not fit you. I just don't have time for extra work when it is not needed. I'm not saying what others do is wrong I just haven't had to do it here. I grow them because they look so tropical and I like them but I have so many other horticultural endeavors I just can't baby them. Maybe when I retire.

I also have two three year old mats in total shade that have fruited this year and that isn't supposed to happen. Again no fertilizer at all only leaf mulch and these are competeing for nutrients in my overgrown tropical now referered to as the Jungle bed.

The "rule" is to remove all pups but those that form in a month that will allow them to grow to six feet tall before you winter protect them. The rational is that height will not be close to fruiting and when Spring comes it will leaf out, grow and about June will be ready to fruit giving you till October/November to get mature fruit.

Hope this helps!

I would think that if you Winter protected, like many have to do in the Mid-South by wrapping the P-stem in the fall and unwrapping in the Spring you would have mush due to your high Winter temps and moisture from the P-stem.

Just my thoughts!

My plants from 10-12-2013 Picture by Snookie two on this mat but just one visible

My plants from 10-12-2013 Picture by Abnshrek two bunches on this mat

Sorry I don't have any better pics right now but you can tell these mats are large with multiple Large P-stems.

Snookie · 10-17-2013, 05:54 PM

"I also have two three year old mats in total shade that have fruited this year and that isn't supposed to happen. Again no fertilizer at all only leaf mulch and these are competing for nutrients in my overgrown tropical now referred to as the Jungle bed."

AMEN I can attest to the above statement!
I almost crapped when I saw the nanna's he has growing in the shade:}

I'm out here in Lizard Creek knocking down trees to plant bananas on hills and fertilizing and holding my tongue in a northerly direction and everything and my nanna's ain't half as productive as my Florida friend's are.....LOL

So, after talking to Mr. Skeet and picking his brain about nanna's and rethinking what it takes to increase production, I have decided to go to the Let IT RIP production schedule.

Plant in the shade and mulch method lol

LET IT RIP, Seeing is BELIEVING!

Now back to my Avocados and Grafting some root stock:}

Peace B with U!

Kat2 · 10-17-2013, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wills

I live about 60 miles north of Tampa Florida and have a IceCream that has been in the ground 4 years. The plant grows wonderfully is huge but always blooms too late. Right now have a bunch of bananas on it from a flower in Mid September and another flag now. The plant grows in a mat and in the past two years have restricted it to one main and it blooms too late so this time I figured the shot gun approach so it had 3 main stems and a pup left on each.

The plants are irrigated on a timer twice per day plus I have a very small (concrete mixing tub) pond for the ducks in the middle of the banana clump so they get extra water from that and manure. The plants are fertilized heavily, they get all the duck house manure and that is from 20 ducks.

We always get at least 3 frosts a year, been here 10 years and have not had a frost free winter yet. So my question is should I cut the flowering stalks down? Should I just cut off the bananas / flower so the energy goes in to growing the pups so perhaps they will have a chance to flower early enough next summer? You would think with a 10 month growing season it would not be that hard to get a mature bunch of bananas.

Any tips, ideas or guidance is very welcome.

I'll take them.

Seriously, don't give up; listen to the banana senseis here. Knowing my DC and other pups I've collected will bloom at the wrong time, I'm sitting here wondering if it's possible to delay a pup's active growth (forcing dormancy) to the right month is possible...not that I know what month but...

Olafhenny · 10-17-2013, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venturabananas

...because frost is a rarity at my house,

That tells me, that you married well!

Wills · 10-17-2013, 07:19 PM

Charles,

When we spoke on the phone I was also surprised to hear about your nanas fruiting in the shade. Do you grow Ice cream?

Just trying to get a consensus should the two flags stay or go? The pups on each are pushing 15' tall I would guess.

venturabananas · 10-17-2013, 07:24 PM

Well, personally I'd leave them and hope that this is the winter you don't get frost! Removing them at this point might slightly accelerate the growth of the pups, but I bet not much.

Darkman · 10-17-2013, 07:52 PM

I'm inclined to agree with VenturaBananas. Here is the other benefit, if the tall ones shade the pups they may not get frosted. Secondly if the tall one get burnt you can cut them off tall and use the butt to support frost cloth to protect the pups. If you do not get a frost then you will have two bunches waiting to mature. Two years ago I had that happen and was eating bananas by May!

Just let them go! can't really hurt and you'll have the pleasure of watching the bloom open each day.

OH I don't cut my blooms off when the Male flowers start coming either BUT that is just because I like looking at them. LOL

crazy banana · 10-17-2013, 10:56 PM

This is my strategy this winter because my mats have grown so big. Hope it will work or even better no frost at all, but that would be wishful thinking.

Wills · 10-18-2013, 08:07 AM

Ok and I will leave them........I will also leave the pups but this mat produces 30+ pups a year so it is going to get awful crowded.

Darkman · 10-18-2013, 08:08 AM

I believe overhead irrigation will also prevent frost but it takes a lot of water!

Olafhenny · 10-18-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkman

I'm inclined to agree with VenturaBananas. Here is the other benefit, if the tall ones shade the pups they may not get frosted. Secondly if the tall one get burnt you can cut them off tall and use the butt to support frost cloth to protect the pups.

A couple of pics I took this morning seem to bear that out. You can see clearly, that
the tops of my basjoos have been nicked by frost, while the more protected bottoms look
more healthy. These plants have already been exposed to frost twice, once for 5 hours
fully at -2^C (28^F)

So panicking at anything near 35^F is totally uncalled for. While different species have
varying degrees of cold tolerance, none will freeze up until there is frost and the frost
actually has time to penetrate into the cells.

Darkman · 10-19-2013, 09:58 AM

Sweet Canna! Ours get atacked by leaf rollers and ruin them. After I retire I will have the time to fix that problem.

10-17-2013, 07:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
Wills Location: Citrus county Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 BananaBucks : 10,541 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. I live about 60 miles north of Tampa Florida and have a IceCream that has been in the ground 4 years. The plant grows wonderfully is huge but always blooms too late. Right now have a bunch of bananas on it from a flower in Mid September and another flag now. The plant grows in a mat and in the past two years have restricted it to one main and it blooms too late so this time I figured the shot gun approach so it had 3 main stems and a pup left on each. The plants are irrigated on a timer twice per day plus I have a very small (concrete mixing tub) pond for the ducks in the middle of the banana clump so they get extra water from that and manure. The plants are fertilized heavily, they get all the duck house manure and that is from 20 ducks. We always get at least 3 frosts a year, been here 10 years and have not had a frost free winter yet. So my question is should I cut the flowering stalks down? Should I just cut off the bananas / flower so the energy goes in to growing the pups so perhaps they will have a chance to flower early enough next summer? You would think with a 10 month growing season it would not be that hard to get a mature bunch of bananas. Any tips, ideas or guidance is very welcome.

10-17-2013, 07:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
Abnshrek Happy Growing Abnshrek 's Photo Gallery Location: Beaumont Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b, but 9b weather.. Name: Migael / Michael Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 9,493 BananaBucks : 283,590 Feedback: 45 / 100% Said "Thanks" 10,447 Times Was Thanked 16,443 Times in 5,238 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,318 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. I have the same happen w/ my orinoco mat up here.. but I'm going to let a number of pups come up next year and see what I get the following year. Seeing this happen on my Orinoco mat that's why I let multiple grow on many other mats (not the DB), but especially on my Namwah, and Goldfinger mats. :^) __________________ I'm a Nannerhead :^)

10-17-2013, 11:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
venturabananas venturabananas's Photo Gallery Location: Ventura, CA Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Mark Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,845 BananaBucks : 266,147 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,752 Times Was Thanked 3,969 Times in 1,713 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 39 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. This is based on advice from others, not personal experience, because frost is a rarity at my house, so take it for what it's worth. Basically you need to watch your banana plants carefully enough that you learn when a pup that comes up in any particular month will flower. You then remove all pups that come up in other months that will cause them to flower so late that any bunch they produce will be ruined by frost. You might find, for example, that pups that come up in Feb-May of one year will flower by June-July of the next year, giving them enough time to ripen the bunch before frost in say December. A wrinkle is that you don't want them to flower right after winter, when all their leaves have been burned off by frost and so they don't have the energy to fill the fruit. It sounds pretty simple in theory, but requires meticulous observations and records on your part to make it work. I know a couple of guys who use this system effectively. If you still have a couple months of potential growth before your first frost, then I'd probably remove the plants with bunches that you are sure are going to be killed by frost. Then they won't be shading pups that can grow a little faster and maybe fruit in late spring/early summer next year. Good luck. __________________

10-17-2013, 01:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
caliboy1994 <div style="font-style: italic;"><div style="font-style: italic;"></div></div> caliboy1994's Photo Gallery Location: SFV, California Find me on the map! Zone: USDA zone 10a; Sunset zone 18/19 Name: Andreas Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,301 BananaBucks : 293,772 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,474 Times Was Thanked 2,196 Times in 1,148 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 236 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. I got unlucky last year and got a Raja Puri bloom in November, which is actually outside our normal growing season here. We got (I think) a few light frosts, which is rare in my area. The fruits were killed by the prolonged cold. Now, I know our winters are different. California winters are much longer (about 5 months of off season where it's too cold for growth, at least in my area) with more consistent cold, so you at least have a better chance than I do. Especially because you have an Ice Cream, whose fruit are more hardy. I say leave it on the stalk and see what happens. __________________ "The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings." ~ Masanobu Fukuoka Find me on linktree here as Solarpunk Farmer: https://linktr.ee/solarpunkfarmer

10-17-2013, 03:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
Darkman Dirt Master Darkman's Photo Gallery Location: Pensacola, FL South of I-10 Find me on the map! Zone: 8b/9a Name: Darkman Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,249 BananaBucks : 237,908 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9,263 Times Was Thanked 1,582 Times in 702 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 243 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. Maybe you are overfertilizing causing too much vegetative growth. I am North of you and my mats received almost no fertilizer only heavy much and lots of rain this year. I have somewhere around 15 bunches. Abnshrek has seen my mats and I let everything grow. __________________ Darkman in Pensacola AS ALWAYS IMHO AND YOUR MILEAGE MAY DIFFER!!!!!!!! Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong! Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable! Statistics - Data that analyst twist to support the insane opinions of those that pay them.

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10-17-2013, 04:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
Wills Location: Citrus county Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 BananaBucks : 10,541 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. Charles, You mean you do not thin out pups at all?

10-17-2013, 05:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
Snookie Part Time Monkey Trainer Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Name: Snookie Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,391 BananaBucks : 387,450 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 29 Times Was Thanked 1,925 Times in 769 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 41 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. "I also have two three year old mats in total shade that have fruited this year and that isn't supposed to happen. Again no fertilizer at all only leaf mulch and these are competing for nutrients in my overgrown tropical now referred to as the Jungle bed." AMEN I can attest to the above statement! I almost crapped when I saw the nanna's he has growing in the shade:} I'm out here in Lizard Creek knocking down trees to plant bananas on hills and fertilizing and holding my tongue in a northerly direction and everything and my nanna's ain't half as productive as my Florida friend's are.....LOL So, after talking to Mr. Skeet and picking his brain about nanna's and rethinking what it takes to increase production, I have decided to go to the Let IT RIP production schedule. Plant in the shade and mulch method lol LET IT RIP, Seeing is BELIEVING! Now back to my Avocados and Grafting some root stock:} Peace B with U! __________________ Mayor of Lizard Creek

10-17-2013, 07:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
Wills Location: Citrus county Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 BananaBucks : 10,541 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. Charles, When we spoke on the phone I was also surprised to hear about your nanas fruiting in the shade. Do you grow Ice cream? Just trying to get a consensus should the two flags stay or go? The pups on each are pushing 15' tall I would guess.

10-17-2013, 07:24 PM	#13 (permalink)
venturabananas venturabananas's Photo Gallery Location: Ventura, CA Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Mark Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,845 BananaBucks : 266,147 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,752 Times Was Thanked 3,969 Times in 1,713 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 39 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. Well, personally I'd leave them and hope that this is the winter you don't get frost! Removing them at this point might slightly accelerate the growth of the pups, but I bet not much. __________________

10-17-2013, 07:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
Darkman Dirt Master Darkman's Photo Gallery Location: Pensacola, FL South of I-10 Find me on the map! Zone: 8b/9a Name: Darkman Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,249 BananaBucks : 237,908 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9,263 Times Was Thanked 1,582 Times in 702 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 243 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. I'm inclined to agree with VenturaBananas. Here is the other benefit, if the tall ones shade the pups they may not get frosted. Secondly if the tall one get burnt you can cut them off tall and use the butt to support frost cloth to protect the pups. If you do not get a frost then you will have two bunches waiting to mature. Two years ago I had that happen and was eating bananas by May! Just let them go! can't really hurt and you'll have the pleasure of watching the bloom open each day. OH I don't cut my blooms off when the Male flowers start coming either BUT that is just because I like looking at them. LOL __________________ Darkman in Pensacola AS ALWAYS IMHO AND YOUR MILEAGE MAY DIFFER!!!!!!!! Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong! Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable! Statistics - Data that analyst twist to support the insane opinions of those that pay them.

10-17-2013, 10:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
crazy banana Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,641 BananaBucks : 12,764 Feedback: 73 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,023 Times Was Thanked 2,962 Times in 1,115 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,999 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. This is my strategy this winter because my mats have grown so big. Hope it will work or even better no frost at all, but that would be wishful thinking.

10-18-2013, 08:07 AM	#16 (permalink)
Wills Location: Citrus county Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 BananaBucks : 10,541 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. Ok and I will leave them........I will also leave the pups but this mat produces 30+ pups a year so it is going to get awful crowded.

10-18-2013, 08:08 AM	#17 (permalink)
Darkman Dirt Master Darkman's Photo Gallery Location: Pensacola, FL South of I-10 Find me on the map! Zone: 8b/9a Name: Darkman Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,249 BananaBucks : 237,908 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9,263 Times Was Thanked 1,582 Times in 702 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 243 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. I believe overhead irrigation will also prevent frost but it takes a lot of water! __________________ Darkman in Pensacola AS ALWAYS IMHO AND YOUR MILEAGE MAY DIFFER!!!!!!!! Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong! Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable! Statistics - Data that analyst twist to support the insane opinions of those that pay them.

10-19-2013, 09:58 AM	#19 (permalink)
Darkman Dirt Master Darkman's Photo Gallery Location: Pensacola, FL South of I-10 Find me on the map! Zone: 8b/9a Name: Darkman Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,249 BananaBucks : 237,908 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9,263 Times Was Thanked 1,582 Times in 702 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 243 Times	Re: Flag too late again...ready to just get rid of them. Sweet Canna! Ours get atacked by leaf rollers and ruin them. After I retire I will have the time to fix that problem. __________________ Darkman in Pensacola AS ALWAYS IMHO AND YOUR MILEAGE MAY DIFFER!!!!!!!! Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong! Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable! Statistics - Data that analyst twist to support the insane opinions of those that pay them.

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