Is anyone growing near a swamp?

lpatelski · 06-25-2013, 06:02 PM

Hey from south Georgia,

We own a property that has a 1.4 acre swamp on it. The water level during the rainy season is right at 18" - inches not feet, just dig a hole and it fills with water.
My question:
Will the bananas love it or hate it?
Soil is sandy, some blue clay, peat. Oh yeah and my horses add some horsey manure daily.

Okay, will the roots rot or grow like crazy?

caliboy1994 · 06-25-2013, 07:22 PM

Bananas don't like waterlogged soil, but if the water table is 18 inches below then it shouldn't be much of a problem. Banana roots only extend to 2 feet below the surface. It may be beneficial to pile up some soil on top and plant them in that though.

sunfish · 06-25-2013, 08:03 PM

Plant them on mounds

Nicolas Naranja · 06-25-2013, 08:51 PM

I grow bananas next to Lake Okeechobee. My water table comes up higher than 18" every summer.Rt

Olafhenny · 06-26-2013, 05:24 PM

Hi Ipatelski,

do you have a first name? Surely Ipatelski is not it?
Anyway, I have never had the opportunity to discuss their preference for moisture content
in their soil with any bananas.

However I have seen in the tropics many bananas at the edges of rice fields, no more than 5
or 10 feet away from open water tables clearly less than 18 inches from the top of soil level at
the plants. These plants seemed to be thriving.

A couple of caveats though:
• They might have been specific cultivars, but I doubt that
• Bananas do not react well to significant changes to their environment, although they always
seem to recover. I would not plant them there, while the water table is relatively high, to give
them time to adapt, while the water table rises. Also plants moved to soggy soils should have
a good head of leaves, to enable them to disperse of excess moisture.

Good luck!
Olaf

shannondicorse · 06-26-2013, 06:10 PM

Ipatelski,

I am breeding bananas suited for low effective depth soils -especially the high water table and clay soil combo (about the worst that you can get!).

Bananas can work.

Use close parallel ditches into the water table. Six foot ditch spacing is adequate. Mulch heavily with aged clippings etc. Bananas are surface Feeders.

AAs, AAAs, AAAAS, AABs do well... the key is to allow the upper water table to be oxygenated.

I have Silk, Mysore, Thousand Fingers, 168-12, 3405-1, Pisang Mas, Musa acuminata malaccensis, Red Banana and Musa laterita doing exceptionally well.

Under those conditions of well oxygenated upper water table even Musa balbisiana is growing and fruiting.

I also have recently put in Ney Poovan and it seems to be fine. Monthan, Pelipita, Saba and Orinoco seem to need a bit more coaxing... but your soil is lighter than mine (by far!)... bananas appreciate low-bulk-density soils (not clays, like I have).

Leaf-prune religiously. Fungal and bacterial banana pathogens thrive in moist environments...so please space your plants!

hope this helps!

shannon

shannon.di.corse@gmail.com

sunfish · 06-26-2013, 06:46 PM

I think being in zone 8 you will have problems come winter. Wet and warm is much different than wet and cold

Darkman · 06-26-2013, 07:06 PM

Hydroids property experiences high water tables and his bananas grow like crazy. I believe that his is seasonal but some times of the year if you walk across some of his yard where he is growing bananas you will get wet feet and the water level is very close to the surface. I'd guess less than a foot but he'd have to say for sure.

bananimal · 06-26-2013, 07:21 PM

Ipatel --- how many days a year do you have temps below 32 F? We are talking GA, right?

lpatelski · 06-26-2013, 07:30 PM

We are 18 miles from Florida on the Northern Mid Border. There were several days we hit 32 and below, but not for sustained periods of time like in the past. I mulched my bananas with loads of horse manure and hay. The leaves died back and then came back every time. Our swamp land seems to get colder because there is a lack of concrete and houses.

Linda Patelski

Olafhenny · 06-26-2013, 07:39 PM

Thanks, Linda, I like calling you that a lot better than "Ipatelski"

Olaf

venturabananas · 06-27-2013, 12:22 AM

I'm with Tony, I think the wetness is going to be a problem during winter given your climate. During summer, I bet they'll thrive.

Nicolas Naranja · 06-27-2013, 07:58 AM

One of the things that I've noticed is that bananas grown under wet conditions seem to make themselves a little hill as suckers start coming up higher and higher. 18" Is not something I would really worry about.

bananimal · 06-27-2013, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolas Naranja

One of the things that I've noticed is that bananas grown under wet conditions seem to make themselves a little hill as suckers start coming up higher and higher. 18" Is not something I would really worry about.

That explains why some of my mats seem to be growing higher exposing corms and roots. Will correct by reducing emitter outputs.

sunfish · 06-27-2013, 10:10 AM

I need MOVING advice PLEASE:}

sunfish · 06-27-2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananimal

That explains why some of my mats seem to be growing higher exposing corms and roots. Will correct by reducing emitter outputs.

Darkman · 06-28-2013, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananimal

That explains why some of my mats seem to be growing higher exposing corms and roots. Will correct by reducing emitter outputs.

Hi Dan,

I'm not sure that is going to help. I think it will just slow it (growth) down. As the corm grows and it produces pups it's mass increases. As a result it has to do one of two things. Compress (sink) the soil or push the soil off it's top as it swells in volume and the top of the corm gets closer to the soil level. The corm not a root doesn't lengthen as much as it swells. All of my older mats appear as if I planted them on little mounds. I know that it isn't the mulch as it breaks down into almost nothing. I'd leave the water flow as is if it is working for you.

bananimal · 06-28-2013, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkman

Hi Dan,

I'm not sure that is going to help. I think it will just slow it (growth) down. As the corm grows and it produces pups it's mass increases. As a result it has to do one of two things. Compress (sink) the soil or push the soil off it's top as it swells in volume and the top of the corm gets closer to the soil level. The corm not a root doesn't lengthen as much as it swells. All of my older mats appear as if I planted them on little mounds. I know that it isn't the mulch as it breaks down into almost nothing. I'd leave the water flow as is if it is working for you.

Hey Charles --- makes sense.

So when are you gonna post pics of your backyard again?

How's Hydroids and your PK doing?

Dan

sunfish · 06-28-2013, 12:28 PM

Shrek ?

Nicolas Naranja · 07-17-2013, 07:56 PM

How about this for swampy conditions...

06-25-2013, 06:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
lpatelski Location: Valdosta, GA. 31606 Find me on the map! Zone: Zone 8b : 15 to 20 (F) Name: L.Patelski Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 161 BananaBucks : 37,022 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 631 Times Was Thanked 206 Times in 93 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 210 Times	Is anyone growing near a swamp? Hey from south Georgia, We own a property that has a 1.4 acre swamp on it. The water level during the rainy season is right at 18" - inches not feet, just dig a hole and it fills with water. My question: Will the bananas love it or hate it? Soil is sandy, some blue clay, peat. Oh yeah and my horses add some horsey manure daily. Okay, will the roots rot or grow like crazy? __________________ 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 Growin’ a bunch Orinoco "Ice Cream" Namwah Williams hybrid FHIA 17 Dwarf NamWah Last edited by lpatelski : 06-25-2013 at 06:08 PM.

06-25-2013, 07:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
caliboy1994 <div style="font-style: italic;"><div style="font-style: italic;"></div></div> caliboy1994's Photo Gallery Location: SFV, California Find me on the map! Zone: USDA zone 10a; Sunset zone 18/19 Name: Andreas Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,301 BananaBucks : 278,727 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,474 Times Was Thanked 2,196 Times in 1,148 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 236 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? Bananas don't like waterlogged soil, but if the water table is 18 inches below then it shouldn't be much of a problem. Banana roots only extend to 2 feet below the surface. It may be beneficial to pile up some soil on top and plant them in that though. __________________ "The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings." ~ Masanobu Fukuoka Find me on linktree here as Solarpunk Farmer: https://linktr.ee/solarpunkfarmer

06-25-2013, 08:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,177,211 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,592 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? Plant them on mounds

06-25-2013, 08:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
Nicolas Naranja Muck bananas Nicolas Naranja 's Photo Gallery Location: Pahokee, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Nick Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,217 BananaBucks : 509,863 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 66 Times Was Thanked 5,665 Times in 1,563 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? I grow bananas next to Lake Okeechobee. My water table comes up higher than 18" every summer.Rt __________________ Some people go bananas, I went plantains.

06-26-2013, 05:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 264,725 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? Hi Ipatelski, do you have a first name? Surely Ipatelski is not it? Anyway, I have never had the opportunity to discuss their preference for moisture content in their soil with any bananas. However I have seen in the tropics many bananas at the edges of rice fields, no more than 5 or 10 feet away from open water tables clearly less than 18 inches from the top of soil level at the plants. These plants seemed to be thriving. A couple of caveats though: • They might have been specific cultivars, but I doubt that • Bananas do not react well to significant changes to their environment, although they always seem to recover. I would not plant them there, while the water table is relatively high, to give them time to adapt, while the water table rises. Also plants moved to soggy soils should have a good head of leaves, to enable them to disperse of excess moisture. Good luck! Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

Members currently in the chatroom: 0
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06-26-2013, 06:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
shannondicorse Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 169 BananaBucks : 30,741 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 79 Times Was Thanked 221 Times in 110 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 11 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? Ipatelski, I am breeding bananas suited for low effective depth soils -especially the high water table and clay soil combo (about the worst that you can get!). Bananas can work. Use close parallel ditches into the water table. Six foot ditch spacing is adequate. Mulch heavily with aged clippings etc. Bananas are surface Feeders. AAs, AAAs, AAAAS, AABs do well... the key is to allow the upper water table to be oxygenated. I have Silk, Mysore, Thousand Fingers, 168-12, 3405-1, Pisang Mas, Musa acuminata malaccensis, Red Banana and Musa laterita doing exceptionally well. Under those conditions of well oxygenated upper water table even Musa balbisiana is growing and fruiting. I also have recently put in Ney Poovan and it seems to be fine. Monthan, Pelipita, Saba and Orinoco seem to need a bit more coaxing... but your soil is lighter than mine (by far!)... bananas appreciate low-bulk-density soils (not clays, like I have). Leaf-prune religiously. Fungal and bacterial banana pathogens thrive in moist environments...so please space your plants! hope this helps! shannon shannon.di.corse@gmail.com

06-26-2013, 06:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,177,211 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,592 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? I think being in zone 8 you will have problems come winter. Wet and warm is much different than wet and cold

06-26-2013, 07:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
Darkman Dirt Master Darkman's Photo Gallery Location: Pensacola, FL South of I-10 Find me on the map! Zone: 8b/9a Name: Darkman Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,249 BananaBucks : 224,689 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 9,263 Times Was Thanked 1,582 Times in 702 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 243 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? Hydroids property experiences high water tables and his bananas grow like crazy. I believe that his is seasonal but some times of the year if you walk across some of his yard where he is growing bananas you will get wet feet and the water level is very close to the surface. I'd guess less than a foot but he'd have to say for sure. __________________ Darkman in Pensacola AS ALWAYS IMHO AND YOUR MILEAGE MAY DIFFER!!!!!!!! Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong! Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable! Statistics - Data that analyst twist to support the insane opinions of those that pay them.

06-26-2013, 07:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
bananimal Member bananimal's Photo Gallery Location: Port St Lucie, Fla Find me on the map! Zone: 10a Name: Dan Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,512 BananaBucks : 614,719 Feedback: 12 / 100% Said "Thanks" 4,688 Times Was Thanked 4,979 Times in 1,509 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 191 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? Ipatel --- how many days a year do you have temps below 32 F? We are talking GA, right?

06-26-2013, 07:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
lpatelski Location: Valdosta, GA. 31606 Find me on the map! Zone: Zone 8b : 15 to 20 (F) Name: L.Patelski Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 161 BananaBucks : 37,022 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 631 Times Was Thanked 206 Times in 93 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 210 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? We are 18 miles from Florida on the Northern Mid Border. There were several days we hit 32 and below, but not for sustained periods of time like in the past. I mulched my bananas with loads of horse manure and hay. The leaves died back and then came back every time. Our swamp land seems to get colder because there is a lack of concrete and houses. Linda Patelski __________________ 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 Growin’ a bunch Orinoco "Ice Cream" Namwah Williams hybrid FHIA 17 Dwarf NamWah

06-26-2013, 07:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
Olafhenny Olafhenny's Photo Gallery Location: Penticton, BC, Okanagan Valley, Canada Find me on the map! Zone: Hardiness Zone 6 Name: Olaf Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,705 BananaBucks : 264,725 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,050 Times Was Thanked 2,012 Times in 876 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 77 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? Thanks, Linda, I like calling you that a lot better than "Ipatelski" Olaf __________________ The reason I joined this forum was to share experiences, my own and those of others and to learn from them.

06-27-2013, 12:22 AM	#12 (permalink)
venturabananas venturabananas's Photo Gallery Location: Ventura, CA Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Mark Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,845 BananaBucks : 256,164 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1,752 Times Was Thanked 3,969 Times in 1,713 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 39 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? I'm with Tony, I think the wetness is going to be a problem during winter given your climate. During summer, I bet they'll thrive. __________________

06-27-2013, 07:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
Nicolas Naranja Muck bananas Nicolas Naranja 's Photo Gallery Location: Pahokee, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Nick Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,217 BananaBucks : 509,863 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 66 Times Was Thanked 5,665 Times in 1,563 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? One of the things that I've noticed is that bananas grown under wet conditions seem to make themselves a little hill as suckers start coming up higher and higher. 18" Is not something I would really worry about. __________________ Some people go bananas, I went plantains.

06-27-2013, 10:10 AM	#15 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,177,211 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,592 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? I need MOVING advice PLEASE:}

06-28-2013, 12:28 PM	#19 (permalink)
sunfish Banned sunfish's Photo Gallery Location: San Diego Find me on the map! Zone: 9-11 Name: Tony Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 18,429 BananaBucks : 1,177,211 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,210 Times Was Thanked 20,592 Times in 7,760 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,716 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? Shrek ?

07-17-2013, 07:56 PM	#20 (permalink)
Nicolas Naranja Muck bananas Nicolas Naranja 's Photo Gallery Location: Pahokee, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Nick Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,217 BananaBucks : 509,863 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 66 Times Was Thanked 5,665 Times in 1,563 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 7 Times	Re: Is anyone growing near a swamp? How about this for swampy conditions... __________________ Some people go bananas, I went plantains.

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