Richard

Labeling requirements vary from state to state. California has the strictest requirements in the nation. You'll find that a knowledgeable California retail store owner will be completely mum on the use of food-grade DE as a pesticide -- or any other product that is not specifically labeled for pesticide use. The first-time fine is $50,000 and repeated offenses also include jail time.

In California, using a substance as a pesticide that is not labeled for that purpose will get you a warning from the CDPR for most first violations and then fines and possible jail time for any recurring violations. For consumers, the CDPR is mostly concerned with curbing historically poor practices such as drenching the ground with motor oil to control weeds.

California rates the severity of DE dust 2 orders of magnitude higher than Borax dust. Other states might have different guidelines. The physical properties of DE are very different from Borax salt. Of course a mask should be worn when handling any salt in bulk quantities -- and you'll find it says so right on the label.

Mitchel, I'm not making any recommendations for or against the use of DE. Instead I'm following the requirements of the CDPR licenses I carry in my wallet.

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venturabananas

So they can carry DE and sell it, provided they don't sell it for use as a pesticide? Is that it?

Yes, CA has some "interesting" laws. I study fish. One effective (and lethal) way to collect them is with rotenone, a root derivative that is toxic to fishes and some other animals. Its original use by humans was as an ichthyocide, but then the plant guys starting using it as a pesticide. Now, if I want to use it to collect fish, I'd have to take a pesticide application course -- even though I'd be using it underwater to kill fish!

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momoese

We are just talking about home pest control here, and we both know CA has some wonky ideas about what's "safe" for us citizens.

momoese

I've never heard a bad thing about it, so definitely take that one with a grain of Borax

venturabananas

Good one!

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Richard

An excellent source for information on pesticides from a sometimes over-zealous source is: PAN Pesticide Database

Some of them have inventory they acquired prior to the ban that started a few years ago. Others are stocking it from out-of-state providers. I know of two factories here in CA that produce pool and food-grade DE, but neither to California-based retailers or distributors. Most of it is sold overseas.

Actually -- blownz281 has been talking about pest control people who have licenses to apply a wide range of solutions, and Nicholas has been discussing licensed products as well.

Although my CDPR licenses permit me to use just about any pesticide to control fleas, roaches, and ants -- my personal choice for indoors is the Borax powder, and for outdoors is Cyfluthrin.

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venturabananas

Nick, in what way would you suggest tweaking the soil environment? I wouldn't mind having fewer fleas on my cats.

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venturabananas

Would that also be reasonable and safe way to control ants that have established a nest in pots of fruiting plants? Or should I be concerned about consuming that chemical in the fruit produced? DE has not done the job.

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momoese

Actually blownz281 was asking us if nematodes spread in both yards would work which has technically still not been answered.


As I stated I've tried them but no luck. I could see no difference. I do however know many dog owners who avoid the toxic top spot and oral flea poisons and opt for safer solutions to flea control such as nematodes who have had great success with them.

The exact products that were used by the pest control company were never mentioned. They may or may not have a negative impact on the nematodes depending on what was used.

sunfish

Boric acid mixed with sugar water worked good for me

Richard

You should have no concerns about consumer-grade Cyfluthrin with vegetables or fruiting plants. It kills ants and larvae but not earthworms. Environmentally it is as safe as pyrethrum extract. I can use it (with a suitable license) in certified organic settings. That not something that can be said about other pyrethroids.

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venturabananas

What was your recipe? How much of each? How did you put it out? In little dishes or something for them to dine on? I'm sure this has been discussed here at some point, but I'm feeling lazy. Sorry to hijack the flea thread with my ant problems.

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momoese

As for ants I have had really great results spraying plants and the soil they are potted in with a mixture of water, olive oil, dish detergent, crushed garlic and Cayenne pepper powder. I did this to control whitefly and black scale which the ants were farming like crazy. It worked for all three pests. I sprayed about a week before your last visit and they are still insect free even after a couple rains!

I've heard that chalk repels ants, never tried it though.

venturabananas

Good to know. And if I leave out the dish soap, I can use it as salad dressing!

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sunfish

I cut the bottom off plastic water bottles and used like a dish.4 parts water 1 part sugar and a dash of boric acid.

Richard

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venturabananas

I can remember that -- it's my hummingbird food recipe with borax! Need to be sure I don't confuse the two.

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sunfish

That's where I got the the sugar water mix. The ants love the hummingbird feeders.

trebor

Im sitting here reading this and grinning ! I have used Borax to repel roaches and fleas for years. Im way past 60 and am healthy! Sure I never get on the floor or inside my walls to kick up the borax dust then inhale it so I guess Im doing it right! Then I understand caution is best...
Also in a agriculture situation the black plastic is the kill all answer to everything in the soil ! Thats because it works , gets stuff HOT and they die I use it on my dirt garden every summer..
The nematodes for flea control are great as long as you have the proper humidity in the soil.. if you apply them in the heat of the day and don't water the following day they begin to die right away.. If ordered from Europe the cost is about 80 dollars enough to treat about one acre.. Its been years since I used them because I seem to have gotten rid of lots of dog neighbors! I love dogs ! So I wanted to keep a clean home during the flea season .. That is why I became Mr “kill those bugs”! Also I raised so many reptiles and believe me fleas can be a problem with them also .Lots of reptiles eat rats or mice I had a building filled with rodent cages for feeding purpose . So I had to keep a close watch out for those things.. Because were fleas survive mites seem to endure also.. Its the flea eggs you need to understand have a 21 day cycle so treating every two week 3 times seems to be most effective.. Now having said that I also want to tell you a flea egg can lay dormant for years and with the proper vibration or temperature it will hatch WAMMO where there one there are more so you have another out break of those disgusting little critters.. Hope something I said was helpful
Im no expert just got some real time experence

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If ya can't eat it, it ain't growing in my back yard !

Nicolas Naranja

From my personal experience they seem to be less of a problem on the marl and muck soils. I don't know what it is about sand, but they seem to prefer that environment at least in Florida. I used to live 1/4 down the road on a the sand ridge and they were bad, and now I am on muck and marl and they are much less of an issue.

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Some people go bananas, I went plantains.