Agristarts Dwarf Iholena

jvstarr88 · 10-01-2018, 11:19 AM

Hello all. Long time lurker but this is my first post. I just wanted to share my Agristarts Dwarf Iholena that just put out it's first flower. Who knows what this actually is but it isn't dwarf.

hdynad · 10-01-2018, 11:42 AM

Thank you for sharing, congratulations
Happy growing
Darla

Richard · 10-01-2018, 02:05 PM

In my experience in San Diego, Dwarf Iholena fruited at about 9' pstem height while standard fruited at 14'.

Some photos of the female flowers and the lower pstem will help with ID.

Nice dragonfruit btw. 🙂

jvstarr88 · 10-01-2018, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

In my experience in San Diego, Dwarf Iholena fruited at about 9' pstem height while standard fruited at 14'.

Some photos of the female flowers and the lower pstem will help with ID.

Nice dragonfruit btw. 🙂

Well that is encouraging. The 9' pseudostem height is about right with this. I'll snap some more pics as the flowers emerge.

I have a few bananas but I grow as many different tropical fruits as I can cram into my yard. Thanks for the reply.

Richard · 10-01-2018, 05:22 PM

The Iholena pstem is generally thinner than a Namwa of the same height -- particularly at the base.

Gabe15 · 10-02-2018, 02:20 AM

Someone screwed up along the way. Either it was mixed up at the lab, mislabled at a nursery, or an extreme detrimental off-type (which is a little unlikely to look like what you show, but Agri Starts often produces off-type plants of many sorts).

Looks more like 'Orinoco' to me, but keep posting photos and the answer will be clear in a week or two.

Hamakua · 10-02-2018, 07:15 AM

[quote=jvstarr88;319025]Hello all. Long time lurker but this is my first post. I just wanted to share my Agristarts Dwarf Iholena that just put out it's first flower. Who knows what this actually is but it isn't dwarf.

Where did you source it from?

bananaT · 10-02-2018, 02:40 PM

Back in the day when I was still a wee banana and bought TC plants my Dwarf Iholena turned into a nam wah.
Crazy, what are the odds...

Not that yours looks like a Nam Wah.

jvstarr88 · 10-22-2018, 11:37 AM

I meant to update this earlier. Here are my supposed Dwarf Iholena.

Here is where it gets interesting. Here is a picture from my friends farm. He got his Dwarf Iholena from the same source the same day. Is this the real one? It is much shorter than mine.

Gabe15 · 10-22-2018, 12:31 PM

Well, you definitely have an Iholena, and now I do suspect that it is a tall off-type. The fact that you have a friend who got a more properly dwarf plant from the same source reinforces that this is very likely an off-type, as they are likely from the same batch, but off-types can be randomly mixed in among everything else.

jvstarr88 · 10-22-2018, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe15

Well, you definitely have an Iholena, and now I do suspect that it is a tall off-type. The fact that you have a friend who got a more properly dwarf plant from the same source reinforces that this is very likely an off-type, as they are likely from the same batch, but off-types can be randomly mixed in among everything else.

Very interesting! I am really looking forward to seeing and eating this fruit. I guess it has pinkish flesh. Thanks for the insight.

jvstarr88 · 10-22-2018, 12:51 PM

[quote=Hamakua;319062]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvstarr88

Hello all. Long time lurker but this is my first post. I just wanted to share my Agristarts Dwarf Iholena that just put out it's first flower. Who knows what this actually is but it isn't dwarf.

Where did you source it from?

I got it from a person that sourced it directly from Agristarts.

Tytaylor77 · 10-26-2018, 07:59 AM

If you could report fill/ripening times that would be amazing! From around the time the first female hand opened.

I have a great friend who also fruited one dwarf! His filled in about 60 days in S FL!

Since this one is newer to all of us on the mainland. Any other info and a detailed taste report would be awesome too!

Thanks for the pictures! I agree with Gabe. Looks like an off-type

sddarkman619 · 10-26-2018, 10:42 AM

Hey jvstarr88 can you post some more close up and in focus shots of the flowers?
Putting together a database of flowering plants.
Thanks!

jvstarr88 · 12-07-2018, 12:47 AM

I got a nice harvest and they are pretty tasty. Also, more orange than they show up in the picture. I waited until they started to ripen before I hung them up in the kitchen.

sddarkman619 · 12-07-2018, 04:09 AM

Gabe15 · 12-07-2018, 06:43 AM

The persistent flowers on the rachis below the bunch (at least it appears that way in the photo), is 100% non-standard, definitely got an off-type plant. If you like it and it is ok, then there is no real problem with this, except that it is no longer the true dwarf 'Iholena'.

beam2050 · 12-07-2018, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe15

The persistent flowers on the rachis below the bunch (at least it appears that way in the photo), is 100% non-standard, definitely got an off-type plant. If you like it and it is ok, then there is no real problem with this, except that it is no longer the true dwarf 'Iholena'.

so this has mutated again into a different iholena or has it changed back from its mutation.?

Gabe15 · 12-07-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beam2050

so this has mutated again into a different iholena or has it changed back from its mutation.?

That's a matter of opinion/perspective, but the chance it has reverted identically to a normal previously seen form is less than the chance it has just mutated into something completely different. You can view it as a new Iholena if you like it, but it is still an off-type from the original. It doesn't really match with any extant Iholena I'm aware of.

The exact mechanisms involved in off-types are still not totally understood, but what we do is that it is often the result of sloppy TC work, when a lab does not do it's due diligence to reinitiate new lines from field verified true-to-type stock. Some cultivars seem more prone to generating off-types than others, but with AgriStarts it seems to be widespread enough that it's almost certainly due to their practices, and not inherent to specific varieties.

Akula · 12-07-2018, 12:47 PM

Congratulations JvStarr!

Looks like about 70 days to harvest. Amazing. Good job!

10-01-2018, 11:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
jvstarr88 Starry Nursery Location: Sarasota, FL 34240 Zone: 9B/10A Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 14 BananaBucks : 6,514 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 4 Times Was Thanked 46 Times in 12 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Agristarts Dwarf Iholena Hello all. Long time lurker but this is my first post. I just wanted to share my Agristarts Dwarf Iholena that just put out it's first flower. Who knows what this actually is but it isn't dwarf.

10-01-2018, 11:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
hdynad Location: LaFollette, Tennessee Find me on the map! Zone: 7 Name: Darla Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 462 BananaBucks : 64,424 Feedback: 2 / 75% Said "Thanks" 1,773 Times Was Thanked 797 Times in 318 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 53 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena Thank you for sharing, congratulations Happy growing Darla __________________ Currently growing, , DGM Highgate, Blue Java, Dwarf Red, Dwarf Brazilian , Ensete Glaucum, Pitogo, Hoa Moa, Raja Puri, Thai Black, VG Chaing Rai, Manzano, Praying Hands. Yunnan, Hawiaan Crown, Dwarf Red Plantain

10-01-2018, 02:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 827,386 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena In my experience in San Diego, Dwarf Iholena fruited at about 9' pstem height while standard fruited at 14'. Some photos of the female flowers and the lower pstem will help with ID. Nice dragonfruit btw. 🙂 __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

10-01-2018, 05:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 827,386 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,537 Times in 4,719 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena The Iholena pstem is generally thinner than a Namwa of the same height -- particularly at the base. __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

10-02-2018, 02:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,447,877 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,244 Times in 2,201 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena Someone screwed up along the way. Either it was mixed up at the lab, mislabled at a nursery, or an extreme detrimental off-type (which is a little unlikely to look like what you show, but Agri Starts often produces off-type plants of many sorts). Looks more like 'Orinoco' to me, but keep posting photos and the answer will be clear in a week or two. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

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10-02-2018, 07:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Hamakua Location: Santa Cruz, CA Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 181 BananaBucks : 26,925 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 187 Times Was Thanked 324 Times in 108 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 18 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena [quote=jvstarr88;319025]Hello all. Long time lurker but this is my first post. I just wanted to share my Agristarts Dwarf Iholena that just put out it's first flower. Who knows what this actually is but it isn't dwarf. Where did you source it from? __________________ Currently Growing: Blue Java, FHIA 01, Gros Michelle, Dwarf Orinoco, Maoli Ele Ele, Maoli Manini, Maoli Dwarf Kaualau, Putalinga Kula, Iholena Lele, Iholena Ula Ula, Iholena Iholena, Iholena Kapua, Unknown purple leafed Iholena, Tuu Ghia, Tagomor, Luba, Kokor, Vunumami, Hapai

10-02-2018, 02:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
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10-22-2018, 11:37 AM	#9 (permalink)
jvstarr88 Starry Nursery Location: Sarasota, FL 34240 Zone: 9B/10A Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 14 BananaBucks : 6,514 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 4 Times Was Thanked 46 Times in 12 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena I meant to update this earlier. Here are my supposed Dwarf Iholena. Here is where it gets interesting. Here is a picture from my friends farm. He got his Dwarf Iholena from the same source the same day. Is this the real one? It is much shorter than mine.

10-22-2018, 12:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,447,877 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,244 Times in 2,201 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena Well, you definitely have an Iholena, and now I do suspect that it is a tall off-type. The fact that you have a friend who got a more properly dwarf plant from the same source reinforces that this is very likely an off-type, as they are likely from the same batch, but off-types can be randomly mixed in among everything else. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

10-26-2018, 07:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tytaylor77 Banana Plants for Trade Location: East Texas Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Ty Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,367 BananaBucks : 53,844 Feedback: 11 / 100% Said "Thanks" 4,608 Times Was Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,185 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 424 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena If you could report fill/ripening times that would be amazing! From around the time the first female hand opened. I have a great friend who also fruited one dwarf! His filled in about 60 days in S FL! Since this one is newer to all of us on the mainland. Any other info and a detailed taste report would be awesome too! Thanks for the pictures! I agree with Gabe. Looks like an off-type __________________ 150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more! CLICK HERE TO SEE PICTURES OF MY MUSA COLLECTION! www.bananapups.com

10-26-2018, 10:42 AM	#14 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,162 BananaBucks : 230,984 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 341 Times Was Thanked 1,233 Times in 542 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena Hey jvstarr88 can you post some more close up and in focus shots of the flowers? Putting together a database of flowering plants. Thanks! __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here

12-07-2018, 12:47 AM	#15 (permalink)
jvstarr88 Starry Nursery Location: Sarasota, FL 34240 Zone: 9B/10A Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 14 BananaBucks : 6,514 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 4 Times Was Thanked 46 Times in 12 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena I got a nice harvest and they are pretty tasty. Also, more orange than they show up in the picture. I waited until they started to ripen before I hung them up in the kitchen.

12-07-2018, 04:09 AM	#16 (permalink)
sddarkman619 Banana Man Find me on the map! Name: Larry Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,162 BananaBucks : 230,984 Feedback: 14 / 100% Said "Thanks" 341 Times Was Thanked 1,233 Times in 542 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena and? __________________ Ca Licensed Nursery - Snail/Disease Free and Inspected: Bountiful Garden Nursery - A1469.001 Banana Plants for Sale https://www.bananatreesforsale.com Sign up to the Newsletter for Updates: Sign Up Here

12-07-2018, 06:43 AM	#17 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,447,877 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,244 Times in 2,201 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena The persistent flowers on the rachis below the bunch (at least it appears that way in the photo), is 100% non-standard, definitely got an off-type plant. If you like it and it is ok, then there is no real problem with this, except that it is no longer the true dwarf 'Iholena'. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

12-07-2018, 12:47 PM	#20 (permalink)
Akula Location: Pensacola, Florida Find me on the map! Zone: Zone 9a Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 1,236 BananaBucks : 84,516 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 2,539 Times Was Thanked 2,382 Times in 809 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 128 Times	Re: Agristarts Dwarf Iholena Congratulations JvStarr! Looks like about 70 days to harvest. Amazing. Good job!

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