MediaHound

My advice to you all today is please research thoroughly the types of banana plants you obtain from here forward, don't just get them because they are cheap or have a fun name, each type you get should be a well researched and thought out decision, mmkay.

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Chironex

Nahhh, no fun that way.

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Scot

Worm_Farmer

Hey Yeah! That is how I ended up with something I did not really want in the first place. LoL!!

mskitty38583

if we all got nanas that would grow in our zones....i would only have basjoo..whats the fun in that?

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Tog Tan

Hey Jarred,
This is a rather weird thread out of the blue, me thinks you are practicing to be a good daddy with your kid on good advice, rite..rite..rite???
So all you 'naner kids out there, lissen real gud....k....and don't let Daddy 'Naner say it twice!

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Tog Tan has sadly suddenly passed away 6/16/09. We will miss you Tog Tan.

griphuz

I take it very seriously about knowing exactly what species and cultivars I grow.
Not only with banana's but with all plants.
I'm even planning to set up a logbook for the plants to be able to say when I got a certain plant, where I got it and where it oroginally came from.
Kind regards,
Remko.

Tog Tan

Ok people, my dumb crack earlier is a prelude to this;

I feel Jarred is rightly concerned about knowing what we grow and for what reason. In the temperate areas where you all are, it is less likely of a chance of a melting pot for species.

I am not keen in giving away seeds of the Musa acuminata because they germinate easily if the condition is right. Over here , they are considered a weed. They are not really invasive if the condition is not suitable. Say, if someone in Florida keeps this and then birds or small mammals feed on its ripen fruits which are extremely aromatic and sweet, you will find them growing wild in the surrounding areas. However, since there are no endemic musa species, there is no problem of hybridization. You will only get a foreign species in your country for which many may consider exotic. Anyway, I do not wish to be immortally remembered as the one who introduced this sp to USA! If you keep this sp, cut and dispose of the fruits before they ripen. We have to be responsible.

While researching and gathering more pix for an article in our mag, I came to an area where Musa acuminata and Musa violascens grow side by side and hybridizing like nobody's business. You will have to be very observant to spot the resulting offspring.

In the past, these 2 sp were on their own turf. M-a in the drier open areas and M-v in the wetter areas near streams and rivers. Development has cleared land into housing and agri and the M-a is pushed next to the M-v. Only God knows how long before this particular area will have only the infused plant.

Species were maintained naturally before man arrived on their own terms by division of land mass, mountains and what not. Now, the progress of human has become the progress of their extinction through infusion of hybridization.
When I ponder upon it, I wouldn't believe the sds collected here can be true in either species. The fruits look right on either species but because of the close proximity, the sds can be the result of a primary hybrid. Of course then, there are the F3 and beyond because of cross pollination and their short cycle to flowering. Scary.....


M-v (left) with shiny upper leaf surface and M-a (right) with waxy white leaf undersurface growing side by side.

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Tog Tan has sadly suddenly passed away 6/16/09. We will miss you Tog Tan.

MediaHound

Spot on Tog! As you noted, it's also important to let people know what they are getting, the issue with invasive and seeded bananas is not to be taken lightly. With the responsibility of growing the plant is the responsibility of making sure you educate others who are interested in it.
For those reasons and many more we will uncover with this thread, it's extremely important to pick and choose your banana plants carefully.
A lot of people go from having one plant to two plants to ten and those 8 at one time may not be researched, they're often just obtained because of the ease to obtain them.

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Tog Tan

Yep Jarred, it's cute when you get hybrids by planting a whole lot of stuff together but it's ain't cute when an environment gets screwed after a couple of decades. If you don't see it, you won't feel it.

Conservation means not letting it happen, not trying to stop it after it has happened.

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Tog Tan has sadly suddenly passed away 6/16/09. We will miss you Tog Tan.

damaclese

Boy Jerad this is something i have thought about allot and I'm grateful for the culture sheets that most of the seed co put out describing the obnoxious nature of many plants one of the vary disturbing things i have witness here on the org is the exchanging and I'm probably going to misspell this badly but stashis nigra the Back bamboo its a highly invasive species and is ban from import in and don't quote me on this 31 state it spreads quickly and has endangered many native plants and animals too here in the US there are many examples to numerous to go in to in here but i live in a Valley that has some of the rarest species of plant and animals on the plant many only grow in this Small 10mil by 12mil valley theres a Orchid that only grows on one hill side near a Small seasonal spring i wont say were as its closely guarded by my orchid club, its that endangered. how sad to think that it or any other species would disappear
lets not go the way of the Dodo
thanks for bring this up !
Paulo

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harveyc

As far as the fruiting types, I'd like to try them all and do my research in that manner. If I had a large enough greenhouse, I'd over-winter pups from each for at least a couple of consecutive years so that I could give each more than one shot in case we had an artic blast one winter (like January 2007 here in the west). Many varieties there simply is not much information about, even in our wiki, so we just need to do our own research.

About the only variety I would not waste my time trying on again is Namwah Pearl. Even the Pearl queen (Sandy) is having one doing the nose dive now. Reminds me, Gabe was in talks with someone about Namwah Pearl that was unaware of the troubles and was supposed to get back to us; need an update.

Jarred, you do need to be more selective, for sure, as you'll be much busier in the year ahead. Wish you'd put up a list of your top favorites even though it would less relevance for me in zone 9 (about 20-25 days of frost so far this year).

Cheers,

Harvey

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Michael_Andrew

I've wanted bamboo but have stayed away from it because of its invasiveness. I'm thinking maybe some clumping would be ok. What should I be concerned with having musa or ensete?

Gabe15

Tog, do you have proof these species are hybridizing, such as witnessing an intermediate inflorescence? These two species are very different, one belonging to section Musa (chromosome count 2n=22) and one to Callimusa (2n=20), they should not be able to hybridize. In some very rare cases, bananas from differing chromosome counts have crossed, but it is not known exactly how it was done and there are only a very very small sample of these plants. I have never heard any accounts of introgression between different sections, thats not to say its not possible, but it is very unlikely and not observed.

Regarding Jareds original topic, I think it is a good practice. To me, this doesn't mean you shouldn't buy any plant you wish, but you should do your homework and find information about it. Many times over on this forum I have seen people rave over new plants that sometimes are already in the US under a different name and are easily available, or perhaps they are already growing them in their backyards.

I get offers all of the time for plants that I grow, and really, people don't even know anything about them, they just have not seen the name before so they think they must have it. For example, Musa ingens is on many peoples want list, and will probably not grow for many of those people. Its a highland species that requires cool nights and dies under constant warm temperatures. Does that mean people shouldn't try? Of course not, but its an important piece of information about the plant that may save some people from paying a ridiculous price for a plant that would die in their climate.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

Chironex

Phyllostachys nigra - Black bamboo

There is a soft spot in my heart for bamboo, and as far as being a noxious weed, I feel it is a matter of perspective. This is a case where being informed about the running nature of the plant is useful when planning to plant it. Not because it is a bad plant, but because it can plug drains, sewers, crack foundations of buildings. So too can oaks, maples, elms and so forth. But to ban it as noxious is extreme in my view.

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Scot

Bob

Great post and glad to hear all who weighed in. I finally found one advantage of being up here in chilly zone 6 (as of yesterday it hit 2 F so still technichaly zone 7 this year). No need to worry about invasive plants, and if I want to risk an experiment it only costs me the price of the plant. When I buy a banana it is pretty much for, 1) Hardiness or maybe a hardiness experiment is better said ,basjoo , E. Glaucum , sikkimensis Darjeeling Giant. 2) New fruit flavors, Ice cream, manzano, FHIA 23. The problem here of course is what method and to what lenghts am I prepared to go to to ensure survival. This might be the essence of my inspiration to grow bananas at all. 3) Height , yeah I'm prepared to lose these first but it would be cool to overwinter at least once and grow something over say 12 ft and hope for 18, Kandrian, Orinoco,which may have best of all worlds so far. 4) Just for looks, Siam Ruby. Other gardeners' spend a fortune on anuals right? So why not go in with that attitude and consider anything extra a bonus. So yeah it's always smart to carefully consider your purchases but sometimes the whimsical nature or simply the challenge of doing what can't be done is its own reward.

Oh and Jarred , your going to have to quit watching South Park once the new addition gets a bit older...........mmmkay!

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Tog Tan

Hi Gabe,

Ha! I knew someone will come up with this. On my observation and photographic documentation, I have through formal protocol submitted them to a person I know who is attached to one of the local uni. I felt, I saw, I observed and I have to stop at this point. So, I will not disclose anything more here than saying that the particular place I went to have only 2 main species (in layman's term so others can enjoy my simple notes), one with shiny leaves and square fruits and an erect bud and the other with matte leaves and round fruits and a pendulous bud. Now I found a third guy (pardon me) with a different color big bud, shiny leaves and round fruits. When I compared the 'round' fruits to the sp with the same, they were different in detail. So I told the guy at the uni, go figure... Now he has all my notes, pix and the exact location of the area. It's his job now to get this verified.

So much for my light hearted comments. Through my years of animal and plant dealings and also 25yrs as an advertising photographer, I have developed an eye for detail professionally. In the past, I am in the jungles 3 days a week. Now with my lazy bones and other priorities, maybe once a week. If I were younger like you and the 'third guy' has spectacular foliage, I will pursue this. Nah.. getting old as Bob calls me. I just want to plant my 'naners and enjoy eating them.

Final note: this particular area has thousands of plts of both these species with big clumps growing next to each other and in some cases, it's like as though it's just one clump(or mat as you guys call it).

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Tog Tan has sadly suddenly passed away 6/16/09. We will miss you Tog Tan.

damaclese

Scot i am not saying that Bamboo persay is bad and i know you and other garners like your self would always endeavor to be responsible but many people simply threw ignorance don't even know what they are getting them selves in to with plants that spread redly and as far as it being a ban or classified as an obnoxious plant thats not my doing you will have to ask the various states that have decided it so i was mirly using that plant as an example not a condemnation if any ones behaver i think the key here is education and just as a personal note i love stashis nigra its vary beautiful but i wont grow it! not even in NV were the chances of it spreading in to the wild are almost astronomical do to the dry climate i just don't want to battle nature i want to work with it the Bananas are all the battle i can handle now O My Poor Akin Back LOL
Paulo

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Tog Tan

Well said Pauly. I was once very intrigued with the Buddha's Belly Bamboo, Bambusa ventricosa, and got me just 1 cutting. Then it got totally out of hand! That was the end of my relationship with bamboo.

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Tog Tan has sadly suddenly passed away 6/16/09. We will miss you Tog Tan.

xavierdlc61887

so if we grow seedless varieties were all good then :P