harveyc

Hey, Chong, chill, dude! :P

Just joking, but I want to make sure you didn't "suspect" I was directing my comments specifically towards you. After all, you were clear in your comment above:
You weren't stating anything as "fact", there. Nobody has accused you of being a Ty Ty secret advertising agent either. I would, however, like for you to post your mug shot here on the forum so that we can keep an eye out for you turning up in any of the Ty Ty ads. I don't remember Jeff Earl ever saying what part of Texas his banana came from. I he said the guy got it from Mexico and he didn't have a name for it.

Hey, Bob, get 10 of each so we can have a really good comparison with some statistical significance! I can assure you with 95% confidence that California Cold Hardy is not very similar to Dwarf Orinoco or California Gold. It is a taller plant and produces large bunches. The closest relationship may be in the relationship of the two guys promoting them.

I'm trying to get my hands on a Texas Star also so that I can compare them, but not under scientific conditions, just for fun so I can say they "seem" similar, different, or whatever.

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Bob

Hey Harvey, If I had room(and better climate) for 10 of each I would do it. I am actually looking for more land to grow on. The current economy might work in my favor there.
Are you sure you want a Chong mugshot? Those Seattle types can be scary(it's the 11 months of rain I think). Delete this last paragraph when you see it so Chong doesn't suspect anything.........

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Tog Tan

After reading this thread out of my personal boredom, I am gonna dive in and tell y'all what I think.
In the case of this cultivar and that, the only way is to create a data base of the physical aspects of the plant. This is what I have done since I got into 'naners. You get a plant, record it photographically from the first stage of growth as a pup. Then do it till it fruits. The following are the important things you have to record.

Juvenile stage
1. Leaf shape in growth.
2. Leaf markings.

Adult stage
1. Overall view of plant.
2. Close up of top and bottom surface of the leaf.
3. Comparison shot of the leaf apex and leaf base with petiole.
4. General color of the plant.
5. Close up of the top and whole p-stem
6. Flower bud
7. Immature fruit
8. Matured fruit - whole - sliced length wise with skin - sliced across with skin.
9. Record the taste of the fruit with a particular one as the comparison. Always used the selected fruit as a comparison to the later ones you taste. This gives you a standard of measure of sort.

From the above pix you can access the characteristics such as the waxyness of the leaf, color of the p-stem in different stages of growth, especially adult stage. Once you get this data, it's not hard to identify a non fruiting plant.

Remember my Drwaf Friuting thingy? I kept asking about the p-stem color diff between the SDC and the DC and no one responded? I realised that no one did actually noticed this characteristic on cultivars. Of course Gabe came in and showed pix of the plant in question and solved the whole thing.

With what I have done on the M'sian cultivars, now I can say I can tell apart the cultivars at a distance just by looking at them and spotting their unique characteristics. Next thing I am doing is I am going to do the same for the Thai ones and then compare them to the M'sian ones. It's fun! Try it and you will enjoy looking at 'naner plants more.

Btw, I can distinguish the all local species from a distance of 500 metres away. I will always tell my business partner, Francis, as we are driving around what species or cultivars in the village or jungle areas are, and I am correct 90% of the time. It has become a game to me and I enjoy it very much. No jokes, not that I am good as some will say, but I took the trouble to be observant. Ok, do it like the way you look at chicks and try to figure out their stats.....

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Tog Tan has sadly suddenly passed away 6/16/09. We will miss you Tog Tan.

harveyc

LOL, I try not to look that closely, Tog, I am happily married and want to keep it that way!!!

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chong

I don't know what you're talking about, though if the shoe fits . . . . .

I'm really quite shy about posting my photos because I don't always come out as good as I want to in them esp. because I didn't take the picture myself. But since you seem to challenge my integrity in regards to my motives with the TyTy issue, here is a photo that my wife took of me. She's not very good at taking pictures, so you'll have to excuse her, as you can see it's a little on the dark side:
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Please do not circulate this around. People might mistake me for someone else.

Tog Tan

And I thought I was the funny guy.

I insist you do it again with a true to type now pix. This time use a photostat machine. You can close your eyes and then paint them in later. It's better than a camera cos you don't need someone else to do it and then blame them for any short comings. One of my crazy friends once photostated his private parts and sent the pix to all the girls he knows anonymously. I told him, it's a great idea, but how about a group pix...

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Tog Tan has sadly suddenly passed away 6/16/09. We will miss you Tog Tan.

harveyc

Back on subject (okay?), I have been in contact with the Utah grower, Kevin, and we will trade pups/corms, so I will try to make a comparison of it to California Gold.

I feel less crazy for growing Ae Ae in USDA zone 9 now after chatting with Kevin! He is in zone 4, has had -45F, has palms, 3,000 cannas, as well as caladiums, etc.

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ron_mcb

i was simply saying if you cant say where your sport originated,and why you believe its a variation,mutation ,and or improvement then its not proper to rename it,and sell it for profit...look at the double mahoi its a sport of the dwarf cavandish.the person that introduced it told you where it came from and why it differs from its mother,same as goldfinger. dont you think its strange when someone offers a new variety and they cant tell where it came from exactly,and what makes it different besides being able to survive a frost? if the seller only offers superimposed photos and no real photos of their product it makes it more fishy.two years ago i first ordered my banana plant i saw all of these weird varieties being offered,so i really studied before i spent my money.the reason i didnt buy the texas star was because i could not find any information on this thing..some people are real big consumers they like being sold 'new things" and will buy instant toast....then there are people like me. you have to tell me why i should buy your product,especially if i have never heard of it.
i think with some sellers there is too much of same stuff renamed and repackaged. i wont just talk about people from certain south ga nurseries doing it either.

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naw mek smaddi ditate fi yuh. naw wan gwan a pawty yuh naggo.

rhymechizel

Getting back on the above topic I live just a few hours from Kevin (mentioned in the first post with the Trachy and the Texas star bananas) and have visited him. His styrofome structures with the low watt lights for heat are very simple and cost efficient but I believe it never gets close to freezing in these structures; it is hardly a test of hardiness. I am planning on using these structures to overwinter a variety of tropical plants. If a banana can survive without rot or freeze I think a lot of different plants can as well.

alpha010

I would love to get drawings and schemas on these structures and maybe even a supplier list of certain things, i.e. styrofoam boards. Then I wont have to worry about purchasing a greenhouse for my hobby whan I can do the same thing cheaper. Also, I am suspecting but did not remember reading whether the lights stayed on 24/7 or if they werer kicked off at certain points. Would really like to know.

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LOL! My house doesnt exist on the member map!


Get a little Love in your life. Jump in a Mosh Pit! The only place where every emotion one person can feel will join together and express all at once.

chong

Styrofoam boards are available in most hardware/lumber stores, including Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace Hardware, etc. They commonly come in various thicknesses up to 4", and 4'x8' sheets. If you look at the photo of the boxes, you will see that there are nailing strips at corners, and in the middle of the boards to retain the boards to a frame. So, that would suggest where the frame members are. For this application, given the fact that all the structure needs is to keep the Styrofoam boards together, it can be made from standard 2x2 lumber. Then, in order to keep the boxes from blowing over in strong winds, the are guy-roped on each corner to a ground stake, just as you would a tent.

From the above description by the author, it would appear that he may be leaving it the light on 24/7. A 100-watt light output fluorescent bulb only uses 17 Watts of electricity, the 60-watt fluorescent - only 13 Watts. Depending on the thickness of the S. board, with so little heat that it produces (17 Watts = 58 BTU/hour), turning the lamp off for several hours, equivalent to nighttime) will make it difficult for that tiny lamp to recover, or may never recover. I can try to calculate the heat loss through that smaller structure, which I think is about 2'x4'x2'high, and see how thick the wall needs to be in order to allow shutting down the lamp for, say, 8-hours a day.

rhymechizel

He does keep them on 24/7 although I have heard of people wanting to try a thermastat.

alpha010

Thanks Chong fo rclarification..believe it or not, I am a handy person with a wonderful Imagination, but alas I have worked in quality control for long enough to where I don't build, cut, or bolt anything till I have full and proper paperwork. Kinda sucks at times. And especially with this setup, you can never really tell if the guy has anything structurewise on the inside which may have been done out of past experience which someday I could learn from that experience and possibly not lose a single nanner. My brain works in absolutely wonderful ways, just getting it on the right track proves difficult at times with all these tangents.

Now with the light situation....I know from experience growing veggies at least, that if giving the plant a light source 24/7 actually will kill the plant. Most plants that I know of need dark for a period of time each day to rest, or else like a person on a severe water and food binge, will eventually eat themselves to death. And, I personnally don't feel that if you get winds under 0 degrees anywhere in the world, 58 BTUs is not going to be enough to keep the ground from freezing under the structure unless the encasement used lets say a house as a wall in which you might get some radiant heat from.

Just my pennies, don't spend it all in one place!

Shaggy

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LOL! My house doesnt exist on the member map!


Get a little Love in your life. Jump in a Mosh Pit! The only place where every emotion one person can feel will join together and express all at once.

rhymechizel

Kevin has built a simple frame out of 1x2 lumber and then attatched the styrofoam. Lights are kept on 24/7 and he has kept his trachy alive this way for 15 yrs. The bananas he has had for less time. When I build my structures this fall I will post some pics as I plan on doing my a little different.

rhymechizel

for those interested, here is a pic of his palm this year



some bananas he brings in each year



inside the structure

alpha010

so simple, yet so elegant!

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LOL! My house doesnt exist on the member map!


Get a little Love in your life. Jump in a Mosh Pit! The only place where every emotion one person can feel will join together and express all at once.

Scuba_Dave

For outside, does anyone insulate an area underground around the plant? IE the same size as the box. that way the earth stays warmer?

frankthetank

Another thought would be to plant a banana very deep...say 2ft down or more in a hole... Let it grow and then cut it back flush will the hole come winter and fill the hole with mulch and cover with foam or something (keep water out)... Then let it grow back the following year. Would be an interesting experiment to try... You would have to make the hole pretty wide to let light get in there (which shouldn't be a problem in late spring with the sun so high in the air)...

I should really try this with one of my spare Sikkimensis... And i love digging holes!

alpha010

Frank you might want to check what the perma-frost depth is in your area, I am certain that in mine it's roughly 2 feet in the dead of winter, so even planting that deep would still be a fruitless adventure. But, nonetheless, if you feel like you may have a shot, go for it! Nothing wrong with a good experiment.

Shaggy

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LOL! My house doesnt exist on the member map!


Get a little Love in your life. Jump in a Mosh Pit! The only place where every emotion one person can feel will join together and express all at once.

chong

Perma-frost???? In Wisconsin???? Or, are you referring to the frost line/frost depth? Prema-frost is an underground ice lens. Believe me, if you have perma-forst in your area, you do not want to dig to that depth. The ice will melt, and the ground surrounding it will collapse. For frost line/frost depth in your area, call the Plumbing Plans Examiner or Inspector in your county or city. They can tell you the proper depth to bury your domestic water service pipe.