Tx_Crinum

Okay, I slugged my way through all 3 pages of this thread last night. By my best reckoning, I live in zone 8a. I'm wanting to grow or am growing right now Siam Ruby, Dwarf Cavendish, Super DC and Rajapuri. If after the first heavy frost I cut them down and protect the corms/rhizomes with a 6" layer of mulch and they don't rot over winter, do I stand a decent chance of them surviving?

CESAR

Hi Crinum.

I think you would be very lucky then

The species you name are not coldhardy.
The strongest one is raja puri, the other are very hard to keep in cold situation.

I ve tried many times (maby Im not good)


I think you can do it only if you have plant to loose.

The main problem is the rain in winter, and the water wich stays in ground, it rots the roots.

So for me
Siam ruby (dot even think about it)
DC, super DC maybe with a mirical)
Raja puri (if its big one and in a dry location)


Maybe other opinion will invalidate my one, hope so

Friendly
CESAR

for more information, give your precise location,

sbl

Would it help to cover the corms with some plastic or a tarp to keep them dry--also maybe planting on a litle bit of a mound?

CESAR

Hi Slb,

Of course it would help but dont forget the effect of the low temperature.

For DC the limit is around -2 degres Celsius (sorry I dont know in Fahrenheit, France is a latin nation) but its just below the frost point anyway.

Maybe you can find some who had some more experiences but the limit is on the book talking about canarias and Israel plantations.

And this is the limit in country wich can get hot day after a light frost. LA is fine I think.

For Raja puri I think its hard but with a good winter and a good protection...

That s my opinion, I hope to hear something more optimistic

shopgirl2

I also live in zone 8A (south east coast of North Carolina). I do have several cultivars. Raja Puri corms do survive where I live, however, the summer is not long enough. We do have frost as early as September some times. The Corms in my Raja Puris are enormous about 1 foot around. It bears a lot of pups.
I am experimenting now with MUSA BASJOO which does Survive N.C. winters (south) It is a beautiful plant and prolific. it has not bore any blooms as yet. This will be their second year. Please look at them at your convenience.
Dwarf Orinoco corm does survive as well. Cavendish also survives here (just the corm) they do freeze over.
I advise SBL to plant the bananas in a mound if his terrain holds water then cover with lots of straw to about 6 inches.
Lots of luck

__________________
Orinoco by the sunlight.

CESAR

HI Shopgirl2?

I think being next to the see gives help (if its your case). But its hard to compare with Crinum that I think he has a continental climate (harder I think)

Anyway basjoo is the best one for cold I think, Im shure you can both keep it well with a good protection as you say.

(-10 degres Celsius is the limit) but in deep ground and good protection as you said, this temperature vill be hard to reach.

Even if the plant dies, the pups vill grow up higher the next spring.

sbl

We are in zone 8a according to USDA, but some winters we do not go below freezing. We had mid 20s F last winter and upper teens the yr before (-5 C and -8 C). I have had orinocos in ground for over 20 yrs and never lost corms. I have a fruiting RP but it is in a container--I now have enough pups, I will be trying one inground over the coming winter. I will have my new bananas (IC, DR, DC) in containers until I get enough pups to test outdoor survival.

CESAR

sbl.

USDA is just an indication, we have to deal with our microclimate.

If your in a place where the corms have time to get big before a severe frost then you can keep it.

Frequences of low temperature must be an important indicator too.

Latitude means nothing too.

My place is about New york's latitude and we have a climate more similar to L A.

The situation is important too, 40 km from my place there is a spot where they generally never see a temperature below +7C,45F i think. They ve never seen frost, its possible to grow there lot of bananas species.
Unfortunetly the price of the plots push people to make buildings before caring about bananas...

Jack Daw

To answer the original question, Raja Puri was said to be one of those hardier varieties, so if it's kept in dry, mulched and protected place, it should survive the winters. But as Cesar said, different climates have different influence on survival of bananas. When you will have more naners and the plants will have larger corms, the only way to know for sure is to try it yourself.

Cesar, I don't believe you , I'm like New York, you must be more like Washington. French Riviera is one of those lucky warm places in Europe. It is a microclimate very similar to that of Makarska Riviera, although I think Makarska Riviera is a little bit warmer in winter.
These two places are to my knowing only countries, that are subtropically hot in Europe, yet don't suffer from fires in summer (unlike Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal...)

This year also a new branch of EU inspectors was instituted, its role is to monitor the desertation processes in Europe (Portugal and Spain).
It is estimated, that in 20 years there will be deserts in Europe as well (there are none today) and that the first will be in Portugal, then Spain and Italy. Observations were made this year in Portugal and the results should be known next spring.

__________________
Thnx to Marcel, Ante, Dr. Chiranjit Parmar and Francesco for the plants I've received.



Zeitgeist - Corporatocracy 101 (~2hrs)

Zeitgeist - Moving Forward (~2.5hrs)

CESAR

You dont believe me Jack, you may, here are the official winter average temperature of Washington US and Nice SF. in Celsuis

november 14/4 december 8/-1 January 7/-1 february 8/-3 march 12/2 for Washington

november 16/8 december 14/6 january 12/5 february 13/5 march 14/7 for NIce

And Menton near Nice has higher average.

Jack Daw

It was a joke. I'd better be less joky on my posts, right... Smilies. Damn.
I do believe you.
Any and all EU to USA comparison is bad.
For instance. The same tropic going thru Florida is the same one that goes thru Sahara desert in Africa. The only real difference is maybe only the absence of Gulf Stream in Africa.

It would also seem, that February is your coldest month, is it so?

Here Cesar, check this link out:
Trade

__________________
Thnx to Marcel, Ante, Dr. Chiranjit Parmar and Francesco for the plants I've received.



Zeitgeist - Corporatocracy 101 (~2hrs)

Zeitgeist - Moving Forward (~2.5hrs)

CESAR

I know its a joke Jack but I still dont know how to put smileys.

U told me where they are OK, the deal is to put them on the frame...

Anyway Sbl is right,

The best is to test with pups you are ready to loose. Everybody has to make is own experience to know better the climate of his location.
In taking all the protections we were talking about.


And tell to the other the result of his experience.
Hope to hear from yours...

Friendly
CESAR

I ve just found to put the smilies on the right,

Time to go to bed for me good bye everyone

sbl

True, the only way to know for sure is to try. We can maximize our chances by choosing the best available microclimates such as buildings and tree canopies. I know mulch will help, but I do not know until I try it with a sensitive corm if some way of keeping the soil drier will help, but it is something I plan to try.

TommyMacLuckie

Latitude has nothing to do with it is true. Florida is not tropical. Neither is Louisiana. Yet tropicals grow in both states. Granted, parts of FLA get as cold as LA but most of FLA is always warmer than LA.

France gets the ass end of the Gulf Stream. New York doesn't get the Gulf Stream. Big difference.

8A. I would imagine your bananas would be OK. I mean, they'll freeze of course, but they could possibly come back without having to cut them down. Unless of course it gets very very cold.

Jack Daw

On the contrary, southernmost parts of Florida (usually on the east bank) are classified as tropical regions according to many climatical maps.

Southern France doesn't get much of the GUlf Stream, but there's a great influence of Mediterranean sea, which makes it much warmer area in winter.

Most of my winters are 8a, only a few drop to 7b, yet I don't think that any small corm would be able to survive, I have certain doubts even with large corms. But that won't stop me from trying.

I include Koppen's climate maps (needless to say it's an overall map, it doesn't say anything about microclimates, which can make other areas more/less plants friendly):

• Tropical wet and dry or savanna climate (Aw):^[5] These climates have a pronounced dry season, with the driest month having precipitation less than 60 mm and also less than (100 − [total annual precipitation {mm}/25]).
  Examples:
  Bangalore, India
  Veracruz, Mexico
  Townsville, Australia.
  • Most places that have this climate are found at the outer margins of the tropical zone, but occasionally an inner-tropical location (e.g., San Marcos, Antioquia, Colombia) also qualifies. Actually, the Caribbean coast, eastward from Urabá gulf on the Colombia–Panamá border to the Orinoco river delta, on the Atlantic ocean (ca. 4,000 km), have long dry periods (the extreme is the BSh climate (see below), characterised by very low, unreliable precipitation, present, for instance, in extensive areas in the Guajira, and Coro, western Venezuela, the northernmost peninsulas in South America, which receive <300 mm total annual precipitation, practically all in two or three months). This condition extends to the Lesser Antilles and Greater Antilles forming the Circumcaribbean dry belt. The length and severity of the dry season diminishes inland (southward); at the latitude of the Amazon river — which flows eastward, just south of the equatorial line — the climate is Af. East from the Andes, between the dry, arid Caribbean and the ever-wet Amazon are the Orinoco river' Llanos or Savannas, from where this climate takes its name.
  • Sometimes As is used in place of Aw if the dry season occurs during the time of higher sun and longer days. This is the case in parts of Hawaii (Honolulu), East Africa (Mombasa, Kenya) and Sri Lanka (Trincomalee), for instance. In most places that have tropical wet and dry climates, however, the dry season occurs during the time of lower sun and shorter days because of rainshadow effects during the 'high-sun' part of the year.

__________________
Thnx to Marcel, Ante, Dr. Chiranjit Parmar and Francesco for the plants I've received.



Zeitgeist - Corporatocracy 101 (~2hrs)

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Taylor

My climate is definitely not the same as Fort Myers, Florida, although that is what the above map shows. Here is what I go by (and similar):

Tx_Crinum

True, but I was hoping someone from XYZ TX would read the thread and say, 'Oh I grow those plus these or I've never had luck wintering this one, etc.' Drawing on other experiences is always preferable. The post is still young so someone may still read it.

Jack Daw

I found this thread and already tried to revive it. Let's see if Buffy posts something soon.
Small Setback on Overwintering Dwarf Orinico - Bananas.org

__________________
Thnx to Marcel, Ante, Dr. Chiranjit Parmar and Francesco for the plants I've received.



Zeitgeist - Corporatocracy 101 (~2hrs)

Zeitgeist - Moving Forward (~2.5hrs)

stumpy4700

Hey Frank, you might try finding out who is in Tx and PM'ing them directly. You might get faster results as it will pop up when they log on..Just a thought.

endeitz

Here's a Central Texas (8a) perspective.

Last year I planted the following:

1. Basjoo
2. Dwarf and Tall Orinoco
3. Dwarf and Tall Brazilian
4. Saba
5. Dwarf Cavendish

I successfully saved the pseudostems of the Basjoo, Orinoco, Brazilian, and Saba over a mild (never less than 20F) winter by wrapping with bubble-wrap and heavily mulching. The stems were around 7'-8' when freezing temperatures hit last year. The Cavendish died to the ground and did not come back.

They slowly came back to life and showed good new growth in the early spring. However, this summer has been brutally hot (2 months of highs consistently >100F), and banana growth has been very slow. The ones in full sun have severe burning of the leaves in spite of ample watering. Bummer!

I will try protecting again this winter. I am not confident that I can save the pseudostems again through a hard winter, but am very confident in the corm of these varieties.

Ed.