meizzwang

In the San Francisco Bay Area, Raja Puri(edit:flowered july 2016, it's not rajapuri. it's an american goldfinger!) was able to maintain most of its leaves without any freeze burning despite a few nights that went below 32F. Maybe a the tip of a leaf here and there turned brown. Williams had most of its leaves fried, but the P-stem is all good. Dwarf Namwah (ID'ed as most likely rajapuri as of 12/26/16)) had a few fried (brown) leaves, but the P-stem is all good. Hi color Mini died all the way to the corm, and only the side suckers seem to be alive (the main P-stem turned completely brown to the ground). M. balbasiana, despite being exposed to the same temperatures, showed ZERO damage, it was pretty shocking.


From Top to bottom: Hi color Mini (the brown stem), most likely rajapuri , Williams, american goldfinger, and american goldfinger This photo was taken Feb 19. 2016:


I'll have more updates next winter with regards to how Ice Cream, Dwarf Brazilian, and Praying hands tolerate cold (updateraying hands rotted, but the real ice cream and D.B. will be left out in the cold winter of 2016). Those overwintered indoors because they were too small.

a.hulva@coxinet.net

Very very nice. It's surprising that you can grow your plants that big in such a cool climate. I have a daughter in San Francisco, beautiful place.

meizzwang

I'm actually a 30 minute drive south of San Francisco, so it's definitely warmer here. It would probably be much more difficult to get bananas to fruiting size in San Francisco

Denverian

I travel to SF regularly for work (stay downtown) and I was surprised to see a nice King Palm last month when I was walking around different areas. They're common where I lived in Orange County, but not as hardy as other palms. I saw Queen Palms as well.

I'm surprised there aren't more palms around SF. I figure it's a "protest" as to not look to "Los Angeles" lol!

meizzwang

update on cold tolerance of some varieties. We had 3 nights so far this year with temperatures below 32F (0C) and so far only one variety has shown any signs of damage: a supposed dwarf brazilian (from a reputable source, but I haven't yet fruited it to confirm). An Ice Cream (also not fruited yet but from a proven, reputable source) is literally 2 ft. away and showed a few "sunburn" spots on new leaves, but other than that, it's in good condition.


All photos taken 12/26/16:

Here's my windshield this morning:


light frost on an oxalis plant a few feet away from the bananas:



Here's damage on the unconfirmed Dwarf Brazilian. Notice the brown necrosis on the edge of the leaf caused by the cold. In all fairness, this plant is still on the smaller side (smaller plants=less cold tolerance), and all other unprotected bananas are much larger or near maturity in size:



Only the lower leaves are damaged, which makes sense since cold air sinks:



clump in the front is the supposed dwarf brazilian, and clump in the back (taller plants to the left) is the supposed real deal ice cream (blue java). Even tiny water sprouts on the blue java showed no signs of cold damage yet, but I wasn't thinking and didn't take a close up pic of the ice cream plant:

Dario80

Musa dwarf brazilian and ice cream can resist to -8 celsius winth the stem protect with leaves a and wrap bubble?

meizzwang

Dario80-maybe one or two days of -8C, but I doubt they can withstand months of temperatures below 0.

sputinc7

Last winter and this winter my Brazilian had a bunch hanging in a good frost.. This year's second one was 32.7 a half mile from me and the frost last year was much worse .. and seem undamaged. I ate the ones from last year.

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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

meizzwang

update:This winter was way more brutal than last winter! from December until now (Feb. 10th), we had 4 nights that dipped below freezing. The coldest was 30F (-1.1C) Out of all those freezing episodes, only some lower leaves on Dwarf Brazilian showed any frost damage, even a week after the last frost had passed. No damage was visible on any other plants from the frost!

However, months of cold rain, atmospheric rivers with 65mph winds tearing up leaves, and night temperatures in the 40's and 30's eventually beat these plants up to the point that they look the way they do pictured below!

Bananas that developed during July of 2016 of last year survived the cold because it had enough time to thicken up, but anything that flowered October and later rotted away because they were too tender. There are exceptions, it appears some FHIA 1 (american Goldfinger clone) have some bunches that might make it, but it's too early to tell.

All photos taken 2/10/17:

Verified Dwarf Cavendish, zero protection: It's still actually in good shape, P-stem has no damage, just the leaves look bad. This will come back just fine:



Verified American Goldfinger (mutated FHIA1 clone): looks bad, but it is in totally fine condition, zero damage to p-stems, but unsightly, burnt leaf tips and ends:




Musa Ice Cream-not verified, but from legit source, I'm 90% sure this is the real deal. Some damage to the new growth and some leaves, but this took the beating quite well:




Dwarf Brazilian (unverified, but from reputable source): few necrotic spots on the leaves, but otherwise took the poor weather very well:



Suspected Rajapuri : flowered late October, so I wasn't expecting it to make it. They all rotted away, even when covered under greenhouse plastic, so I gave up on it. Maybe the male bud will open, it still hasn't, so ID can't yet be verified:



Another shot of the rotting fruit, so sad but I got over it quickly because the first ratoon looks like it'll bloom soon:



Suspected Rajapuri : old, outer petioles are turning brown and rotting, but P-stem inside is still in good shape:




One last shot of suspected Rajapuri-leaves are in great condition, this first ratoon looks like it'll bloom the second it warms up, so I think I'll get to produce mature fruit from it this year!




Suspected Williams: so many leaves turned yellow and brown, new unfurled leaves from growth points turning necrotic, but P-stem in excellent shape. These will probably fruit in the spring, the plants were gigantic and look very close to flowering:



Pot to the left is Pisang ceylon (unverified, but from very reputable source) and dwarf orinoco (unverified, but from reputable source). These have been sheltered under greenhouse plastic the whole time, so they haven't really been exposed to the elements and so I don't truly know how they will do when exposed to the elements. Pots were kept barely hydrated and only watered once so far this whole winter:



Not shown: Musa pisang raja (from reputable source, not verified yet), which is in another shelter and barely produced 3 leaves before experiencing the cold. I got a corm in Sepember or October of 2016. It's in perfect condition but hasn't grown an inch since mid November, it's a tiny plant.


To the left is Pisang Ceylon and the big plant is Musa Aeae. Lots of necrotic spots on the leaves under plastic, there's good air circulation, but they want more when it's this cold. These protected plants will take off when it warms up, they're in great condition considering the unoptimal climate. Ubnfortunately, I don't think the AEAE is big enough to fruit in time this year unless we have some freakish warm spring:



Overview of plants, they look pretty beat up:



And some inspiration: American Goldfinger bunch that made it through the worst of this winter, it's only going to get warmer from today, so no threat of frost or anything else killing these off at the moment:

JBijl

Thanks Meizzwang for the update and the real nice pics.
You have some musa's i realy want to have.

meizzwang

PM me in the spring or early summer, pretty much any large plant pictured above has pups that can be separated. Right now wouldn't be the best since they're all stressed out, but by early summer, they'll be strong again and you won't notice they went through what looks like hell.

HMelendez

Thanks meizzwang for the update!......Thanks for sharing/posting the pictures!....


Brutal weather your plants took this winter.....Hopefully all your plants recover well!....

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JBijl

Thanks Meizzwang i will send you a PM the spring or early summer

Tytaylor77

Looking great. Glad to hear you and your bananas are doing great. All the plants look ready to take off.

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luisport

I dout i have any of my banana plants survived this year. This is the most brutal winter ever here. My coldest temp usually is -3C and not every year, but this year was -6.5C! Even my avocado trees and many others are dead! What a lost!

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Musa Rajapuri, D. Brazilian, D. Orinoco, Pisang Ceylon, Da Jiao (Himalayan Fruit), x Fruit, Himalayan Mountain, Helen's Hybrid, Patupi, Lacatan, Hajaray

Paw Paw Sunflower, Prima 1216, Potomac, KSU Atwood, Jerry's Big Girl, Al Horns, KSU Chapell

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meizzwang

Quick update on the cold tolerance of several varieties here in zone 9, where we had a few light frosts and a cold winter with record rains. The few nights of frost we had did very little damage to the plants, I think prolonged exposed to cold rain was the main form of stress. All photos taken March 14, 2017:

1) Williams: leaves mostly fried, one of 3 p-stems fell over but P-stems for the most part had no rot issues. The 2 remaining p-stems are about 11' tall, if they don't flower by late May this year, they're getting canned. This variety is definitely not as cold hardy as others, but will survive light frost, and I still have a chance of getting them to fruit here. Here's a pic of the p-stem that fell over:



1) American Goldfinger (FHIA1): leaves fried, but less damage than williams under identical environmental conditions. Bunches that flowered mid last summer all survived and are expected to ripen as soon as it warms up, whereas bunches that developed in late october and december all rotted away. This variety flowers like crazy and I have a pre-flag showing up already on one matt (this will be the 6th bloom). Bottom two mats below are American goldfinger, this is the only variety that I will likely have mature fruit from in the next 3 months or so:


This American Goldfinger bunch flowered in early-ish October of last year and most of the fingers made it:



This bunch of American goldfinger flowered mid December, probably won't make it:



And this bunch of American Goldfinger flowered last july, 100% unscathed, about 90% chance at this point that they'll reach maturity:


3) Aeae: The tissue on this plant is extremely tender and less lignified than the actual cold hardy plants. This plant was covered under greenhouse plastic the whole winter; it would have likely rotted away had it not been covered. The soil stayed dry, which is key to its survival. This plant will not likely fruit in zone 9 without protection, but if it gets big enough, I bet it'll survive our frosts unprotected (leaves will likely all fry though) :


4) Rajapuri: flowered in November (I think), entire bunch rotted by late January despite being covered by greenhouse plastic. Cold hardy wise, seems to be on par with american goldfinger, if not slightly less tolerant. Some leaves fried, fruiting P-stem had some rot issues on the outer layers, but after pulling them off, tissue inside was in good shape.

5) Dwarf Brazilian: Very few leaves got fried despite frost being present around the plant (only the edges of the lower leaves showed any damage). This plant seems to be the most cold tolerant of all the varieties I have.

6) Musa Ice Cream-slightly more cold tolerant than American goldfinger: some leaves fried, but more green kept than American Goldfinger. It was also growing in a cooler, shadier environment, but the top of the canopy was fully exposed and unprotected, much like American Goldfinger.

7) Musa Dwarf Cavendish: about the same cold hardiness as williams: vast majority of leaves fried, very little green left on leaves, p-stem totally fine. This I wouldn't count on being able to fruit here, I've been growing it for approx. 14 years and have yet to get it to flower.

Overview shot of the main banana collection:

sputinc7

14 years? If the PS is undamaged, shouldn't it continue on where it left off?

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If you lose your head and give up, you neither live nor win.

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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

meizzwang

Pstem was fine this winter for Dwarf Cavendish, but in the past 14 years, it has died to the corm several times.

sputinc7

I guess what I mean is, if it's 5 feet tall, and the Pstem survives, shouldn't it fruit? Of course, you never get the hot n steamy they really like out there so maybe that makes all the difference. I am not surprised your Brazilian did well, mine hardly even notices a frost. My SH-3640 didn't mind the frost, either.

__________________

If you lose your head and give up, you neither live nor win.

https://sputinc7.wixsite.com/covwc

Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

kaczercat

Thanks for the update meizzwang. Your DC is in darn good shape for with standing 30F! The lowest in the GH here was 32 or 30F in Jan for several hours with the fan on. It went on for 2- 3 days causing the 4 ft stem to die right back to the corm. Luckily it's coming back from the centre and shooting a new pup. Maybe you'll get a bunch this season? Will your pisang ceylon go in the ground this year?

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Matt