meizzwang

I acquired a plant at a local farmer's market in the San Francisco Bay Area, CA almost 3 years ago, and it was labeled Rajapuri. It was a hardened off plant from TC, so it likely originated from agristarts. Plant withstood temperatures at around 30F last winter with minimal to almost no burn on the leaves. Height of p-stem is about 7' at flowering. Flag leaf showed up June 27, 2016, and bud was visible July 1, 2016. Now it's 7/12/16, the inflorescence has "dropped" and is hanging, but the bracts(?) haven't yet unfurled to reveal the individual flowers underneath. The plant is slowly leaning due to the weight of the inflorescence and will definitely need propping.

It's been in the high 40's to mid 50's at night and somewhere between mid 70's up to low 90's, the temperature has been swinging like crazy! Due to the cold nights, flower development is at a snail's pace: as of today (7/12/16) the flowers still haven't "opened"! I thought it would take a matter of days to open after you see the flower pop out, but it's been almost 2 weeks since the bud was visible....the price you pay for growing tropical plants in cooler climates....

I will update this thread as the inflorescence develops. While there still isn't enough detail to get a 100% positive ID, can Rajapuri produce a light reddish-orange bract or spathe(?) as pictured below? All the pictures I've seen online of rajapuri have bracts that are bright or dark red. All photos below taken 7/8/16:



close up of the bract (I'm calling it that for now until someone corrects me). Perhaps environment (ie temperature and pH of soil) might play a role in the color of this plant part?


Crappy picture, but gives you scale of the size of the inflorescence:


The two big mats at the bottom are the suspected raja puri:

meizzwang

Okay fellow banana "nerds," this is the moment you've been waiting for If this ain't rajapuri, what is it? Before I delve into a bunch of features of this suspect plant, one thing I noticed is there's a somewhat pungent odor given off by the inflorescence. Imagine the chemical undertone smell of an oriental lily without the sweetness to it, add a little waxy-scent, and make it slightly less potent. that's what the flower smells like! Makes me gag, but I continuously keep trying to smell it for some reason, LOL

Anyways, Here's a summary of this plant:

1) colorful flowers (ie. red pigments in petals..I guess they're petals?), and no red where each finger is attached to the main stem:







Overview of inflorescence, 17 fingers in this hand, if they all make it:





2)Flowering height is at 7', the subject plants are the 2 bottom matts:


3) Withstood 30F for 2 days with minimal damage, this photo is from Feb. 2016 Subject plants are the 2 bottom mats:



4) water sprouts have red variegation (plant in foreground, to the right):


5) Sword suckers don't have red variegation:


6) here's the p-stem:


7) petiole canals are lined with red pigments:


So what's the verdict?

sputinc7

I don't know what they are but they look like they are happy to me.

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Varieties I supposedly bought: Manzano, Cavendish, Blue Java, Sweetheart, and Gros Michel.
What it seems I actually have: Brazilian, Cavendish, Namwah, Dwarf Red, Gros Michel, Pisang Ceylon, Veinte Cohol and SH 3640, and American Goldfinger. FHIA 1, Paggi and FHIA 17... Always room for one more.

Lau

My Raja Puri is pretty short.

Lau

One way you can is by the male bud. It's huge.

crazy banana

Raja Puri will retain its bracts (like in the photo Lau has posted). Just wait another week or so.

meizzwang

Sounds great, I'll post pics as soon as the female flowers are done blooming and the male flowers begin to open.

This inflorescence is secreting a very sweet liquid that tastes just like honey, but isn't super viscous. there's so much liquid that it left a slight puddle on the steps. So many little details you'd never expect. Anyhow, here's some new photos, taken 7/17/16. Taking forever to flower because it's been in the low 50's at night and mid 80's during the day:



Flowers are finally fully open:


oh shoot, I just noticed some red where the banana stems connect to the main inflorescence stem, now I'm confused....it could be caused by the cold, or it's possibly not rajapuri, only time will tell :

meizzwang

some more photos of the suspected Musa Rajapuri. It seems like the last 2 or 3 hands of female flowers aren't "engorged" so these will likely abort. Interestingly, it appears the last set of female flowers also has some male flowers mixed in there. Upon closer inspection, I suspect all of the female flowers on this plant also have some male parts in there, although they're much more mutated and not fully functional or developed.

All photos taken this morning, 7/21/16. In this first picture, Notice the pointed stigma subtended by what appear to be stamens:


Some older female flowers:


Overview of the bunch:



and overview of the plant with flowering bunch:

robguz24

Those very red female flowers as on Lau's are what you should see (from my understanding anyway). Yours look much less red, though I don't know how much variability there is in that trait for RPs.

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meizzwang

couple of updates:
1) only about 6 hands made it and they're developing well.
1) the "male" flowers abort about 1-3 days after they open. All of these subsequent flowers are technically hermaphordites and contain both male and female structures, there's no 100% pure male flowers being produced (not yet at least).
2) bracts fall off about 2-3 days after the "male" flowers open. None of them have stayed on yet.
3) following the 6 hands that are developing bananas, about 5 hands of the hermaphrodite "male" flowers/bracts have fallen off.
4) red pigments where the individual finger meets the stem has gone away, it's pretty much pure green now


So my questions now are:
1) does Rajapuri eventually produce 100% male flowers, or are they all hermaphrodites?
2) With the flowers that are aborting, is it possible that they're still considered part of the "female" flowers, and they're just falling off because the banana doesn't have enough energy to keep them?
3) Does rajapuri ever produce several hands of bananas, then several nodes that are "clean" followed by a bunch of bracts that don't fall off, or is the fact that these hermaphrodite hands keep falling off a tell tale sign that this isn't Rajapuri?
4) As Rob questioned, has anyone seen phenotypic variance in the flower color for rajapuri?
5) has anyone grown out agristarts' rajapuri and confirmed the ID is correct?
6) if this isn't rajapuri, what other cultivar(s) could it possibly be?
7) aside from seeing the bracts staying on the rachis, are there any other photos I can take to help ID this plant?

Lau

I just added some more pictures to the post. I can not answer any of your technical questions, but if the male bud on your plant looks anything like the pictures of my plant it is probably a Rajapuri.

Tytaylor77

My raja Puri hasn't flowered yet so I can't compare to mine. Yours look really tall for raja Puri. All the pictures I have seen show very red female flowers also. Lau's I would say is for sure a raja Puri.

Yours looks a lot like my Goldfinger bunches. Maybe some type of FHIA hybrid? I'm no expert. Just sharing what I've seen/read. Pm me your email and I can send you lots of my Goldfinger pics if you want to compare. I take almost daily pictures of progress. There may be a few uploaded here but not many.

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meizzwang

Yeah, I haven't seen any pictures either of rajapuri with such light colored flowers, starting to think this isn't one....especially with these new updated pics taken 7/26/16:


Bracts fold backwards-ish, and as mentioned above, they typically fall off 2-3 days after opening:



Closer shot of the bract:


"male" flowers and their corresponding bracts fall off 2-3 days after opening:



Close up of male flowers, which are actually both male and female. These seem more yellow than the female flowers. For what it's worth, this is the 8th "hand" of male flowers:


The abscission layer where each finger is connected to the rachis has red pigments that look like a red line:


Got a second flower on another mat, same exact clone that was labeled rajapuri. Flowering height is around 7.5' of p-stem:






Gabe-any input? I know you're the musa master around here....

Kat2

I'm watching your thread. I have my 1st musa fruiting. I was told she was a Rajapuri but I didn't dig her up nor was I the one to label her and the peeps who did are a bit flaky and we're no longer in touch. My flower pictures (I took a few bad ones) seem similar to yours in color; I also have only a few hands (6 I believe with 10 fingers each). If yours is not RP then mine probably isn't either but that means misidentification is bicoastal. As if I didn't already know that...

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Gabe15

It is not 'Raja Puri', there are a number of traits which do not match but the most obvious is the lack of persistent male bracts and flowers below the bunch on the rachis. I have some ideas but hard to say exactly what it is at this point, keep posting photos and whatever you do LEAVE THE MALE BUD ON! Do not cut it off, it will make ID'ing much more difficult.

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meizzwang

much appreciated, thanks Gabe, and will do! Bummer, I was hoping to get this ID'ed quickly so I can chop off the male bud....there's sooooo many yellow jackets swarming this thing and it's becoming a health hazard, haha!

tytaylor77 asked me about the color of the p-stem on a new pup, and I never thought to even look! Couldn't get a pic of a new pup, but here's a 5' or so pup, and I peeled one of the old petioles off. It was surprising to see this light pink color, until now I thought the p-stem was solid green:


Since P-stems are kinda boring, here's an unrelated Epiphyllum flower to make this post more interesting:


Anyhow, Whatever this banana cultivar is, it's certainly well adapted to our cooler climate! To be continued, will wait for more hands of the male flowers to open.

meizzwang

Second inflorescence opened on 7/28/16. Here's some pictures of it, taken 7/29/16. Even though it's the same exact clone, the flower is slightly different. There were 2 pairs of bracts prior to the bract that subtended the first hand. In the previous flower, there was only 1 bract prior to the bract that subtended the first hand:


First hand of female flowers:


An attempt to capture the color of what appears to be both the flag leaf and first bract. Also, notice the coloration of the inflorescence, some red pigments are present:


Closer shot of the inflorescence stem:


Overview of the 2 inflorescences:



Now we're looking at the older flower that opened in early July (the one to the left in the previous photo), here are the "male" flowers that continue to fall off 2-3 days after opening. Zero bracts have persisted so far:


some color on the rachis.

meizzwang

okay, second inflorescence of this unknown Musa is blooming and to recap, it's the same exact clone as unknown#1 (photo-documented in this thread). Flower color is exactly the same as the first one. Photos taken 7/31/16 and 8/1/16:



Close up of female flowers the day they opened:


"top view" of the female flowers:




just opened flowers, the stem where they are attached to the rachis:


flower pics at night:






Notice the color of the flowers on the very first hand that opened, they're much whiter compared to the just opened flowers. Not the best pic to illustrate this point, but the best I have:



Here's some hands from the older inflorescence, it's been cold again so they're taking their sweet time:





Last but not least, one of the more important pictures: clean rachis, hermaphordite flowers and their bracts continue to fall off shortly after opening, I think 12 or 13 sets of these flowers have fallen off so far:


Also note: the second ratoon is significantly taller, one of the pups is near 10' tall and hasn't yet shown any signs of flowering. Anyone who has grown manzano (not brazilian): do you see any characteristics that would suggest this isn't manzano?

Tytaylor77

My Manzano is really Manzano the best I can tell. They have wine spots on some pups and also have color on the Pstem. Young pups come up almost red sometimes and have red streaking. Look below at the colors. Manzano leaves are also long and skinny looking. Yours looks to be all green. I hope Gabe can figure it out soon I'm excited to see what I really is.

https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlo...spx?id=1647318

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meizzwang

Any way to get a positive ID yet? Photos taken 8/8/16:








Interestingly enough, the second bunch has 2 fingers that are fused together. Looks like praying hands might have some future competition: