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Kostas
03-15-2011, 10:50 AM
Hello!

I was wondering which is the tallest growing Cavendish subgroup variety and what are its dissimilarities with Grand Naine. If you have any pictures of the various tall(ish) Cavendish varieties,please post here as well!


Thank you very much in advance!

Kostas
03-21-2011, 05:30 AM
Anybody knows?

If not,i guess we still can find out! Just post your pseudostem height at flowering size of your Cavendish subgroup cultivars and we will see which tends to be the tallest! :woohoonaner:

Thank you very much in advance!

Jack Daw
03-21-2011, 06:22 AM
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mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1027"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> Musa 'Giant Cavendish'?
http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Musa_Giant_Cavendish

Kostas
03-21-2011, 10:01 AM
Thanks Jack!

I have read about Giant Cavendish being the tallest Cavendish but because it was getting compared to only a few other Cavendish variants,i thought i would ask here in case anybody knows of a taller one. I have also seen a few Grand Naine grow quite big and would like to hear and see if possible as well, how big these and other Cavendish cultivars grow for members here!

Jack Daw
03-21-2011, 04:11 PM
Thanks Jack!

I have read about Giant Cavendish being the tallest Cavendish but because it was getting compared to only a few other Cavendish variants,i thought i would ask here in case anybody knows of a taller one. I have also seen a few Grand Naine grow quite big and would like to hear and see if possible as well, how big these and other Cavendish cultivars grow for members here!
No, it was significantly taller than DC, but the fruit was very similar, so as to ease the harvesting and care, farmers decided to favor the DC.

Why are you interested in these varieties? They are everything but ideal for your climate.

kaczercat
03-21-2011, 05:16 PM
you should check we be banana, click varieties , maybe you'll find something.

ENCANTO FARMS (http://webebananas.com/bvar-A-B.html)

sunfish
03-21-2011, 08:58 PM
BANANA Fruit Facts (http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/banana.html)

List Lacatan as the tallest in Cavendish subgroup

ENCANTO FARMS (http://webebananas.com/bvar-G-I.html)

palmtree
03-21-2011, 09:03 PM
Isn't Blue Java a variety of cavendish? They get pretty huge!

Kostas
03-22-2011, 05:20 AM
Thank you very much all of you for your replys!:)

Jack,
Giant Cavendish is in my list of varieties to get but i wanted to know of even taller Cavendish varieties. I am all for height!

I know these varieties arent ideal for my climate in Athens but they are worth trying just to see how they do when i have pups to overwinter inside as well. But,i dont plan on staying in Athens for much longer. I hope to be moving to Pyrgos permanently within the next few years and get me a lot of land to build my main house in and plant a forest as well! Land is very cheap there so getting it is no problem. Instead of getting a car,you get several acres of good,fertile land in a relatively wet and quite warm climate:woohoonaner: There,i bet all bananas grow well and i know from experience with my Pyrgos Garden,all cycads and a very good variety of palm species and tropical trees grow excellently there :woohoonaner: And,did i forgot to mention? Its warm almost yearround!!!!!!!!


Thank you very much Matt!


Thank you very much Tony! Thats great to know!


Alex,
''Blue Java''/''Ice Cream'' is in a different subgroup,being an ABB while the Cavendish varieties are a group of varieties belonging to the AAA subgroup. I do have an IC and hope it gets huge this year!


Does anyone knows a source for proper Giant Cavendish,Robusta and Philippine Lakatan? Do you have any pictures of these varieties?

Thank you very much in advance!

pitangadiego
03-22-2011, 08:59 AM
I have (what are supposed to be) Dwarf Cav, Ha'a, Ha'a Ha'a, Mahoi, Valery, Williams, Zan Moreno, along with Gran Nain, Dwarf Brazilian, Dwarf Jamaican Red, Dwarf Red, and Raja Puri. All are about 5-7' tall, so there isn't a whole bunch of difference worth getting excited about.

Kostas
03-22-2011, 10:06 AM
Thank you very much for your reply pitangadiego!

What about Lakatan? I see it listed on your site as available. Does it grow to be any taller than 10-12ft? 5-7ft are totally dwarf! Maybe conditions play a role on that as well as i have heard of Grand Naine reaching 10ft in tropical climates and appears to be correct seeing a few videos on youtube.

Thank you very much in advance!

sunfish
03-22-2011, 10:30 AM
Going Bananas of Homestead Florida Banana & Banana Plant Descriptions (http://www.going-bananas.com/bananaplantdescriptions.htm#LACATAN%20-)

pitangadiego
03-22-2011, 01:15 PM
Lakatan and Tomoc, both from the Philippines, are about 8-9' pseudostem, maybe just a little shorter than Goldfinger which comes in around 10' for the most part.

Kostas
03-22-2011, 06:17 PM
Thank you very much for your replys and your help!

Thanks for the link Tony,good information there as well!

Thank you very much for sharing your first hand experience pitangadiego! I appreciate it!

So Lakatan does is taller than the rest. From the info i read so far,it seems like the height list for Cavendish varieties goes like that,from shortest to tallest:

Super Dwarf Cavendish
Dwarf Cavendish
Grand Nain
Giant Cavendish
Williams
Valery
Robusta
Tomoc
Lakatan

Is the above list correct?

Surprisingly,at least for me,Giant Cavendish proves to be far from being the tallest although none is really tall growing.

Do you know if there is a Dwarf Williams in addition to regular Williams?

Thank you very much in advance!

saltydad
03-22-2011, 06:22 PM
Don't forget to put SDC as the shortest.

Kostas
03-22-2011, 06:29 PM
Done Howard,thanks! :)

I originally left that out and was tempted to leave DC out as well as they stand no chance competing as the tallest but i guess its good to have a complete list handy!

pitangadiego
03-23-2011, 09:22 AM
Then there is Mauritius, Little Prince, etc. etc. Not sure where Enano Gigante fits (if it is a Cavendish type) but it is in the 6' neighborhood, as well.

sunfish
03-23-2011, 09:25 AM
And double Mahoi around 4'

venturabananas
03-23-2011, 12:57 PM
Kostas,

Your list isn't correct. It includes one that is not a Cavendish variety and another questionable one. There are lots of different names that most cultivars go by, which confuses the issue, but as far as generally used names for Cavendish cultivars go, approximate height goes like this:

Lacatan (= Pisang Masak Hijau, but isn't Lakatan): 12-14'
Giant Cavendish (includes Valery, Williams, Robusta, and others): 8-10'
Grande Naine (= Enano Gigante): 6-8'
Dwarf Cavendish (= Chinese): 5-6'
Double Mahoi: 4-6'
Super Dwarf Cavendish (= extra DC, dwarf Parfitt, and probably same as Mauritius and Truly Tiny): 3-4'

The true Lakatan is not a Cavendish cultivar. The one spelled with a "c" is. The one Jon has listed as Tomoc seems to be a true Lakatan, in that he says its fruit are indistinguishable from his Lakatan, which he has told me is different from his true Cavendish varieties. The name is suspiciously similar to "tumok", which is a Philippine name for Giant Cavendish, but if Jon's plants are different from Cavendish, then they were probably just misnamed by whoever he got them from.

So, the short answer is the Lacatan (not Lakatan) is the tallest Cavendish cultivar.

My question is why anyone would want to grow a tall Cavendish. They do poorly with wind and cold, they are susceptible to some of the nasty tropical banana diseases, and the fruit are what you could buy at the grocery store. There are plenty of tougher, more interesting varieties.

ArchAngeL01
03-24-2011, 02:07 AM
Truly tiny is a Cavendish type,but certainly not the tallest. The cutest! :D

Kostas
03-25-2011, 05:11 PM
Thank you very much all of you for your replys!

Mark,

Thank you very much for your very informative reply and for providing a correct list!
Thank you very much for the clarification regarding Lacatan and Lakatan as well!

Is Giant Cavendish a variety or just a group of Tallish varieties of Cavendish? If it's only a group,which variety is the tallest of the group?


The reason I wish to grow some Tall Cavendish varieties as well is for added interest as well as for their big bunches of grocery store like bananas that will probably be sweater. I would certainly not grow only Cavendish varieties but a few along with the rest adds interest! :)

Thank you very much in advance!

palmtree
03-25-2011, 11:45 PM
Thank you very much all of you for your replys!:)

Alex,
''Blue Java''/''Ice Cream'' is in a different subgroup,being an ABB while the Cavendish varieties are a group of varieties belonging to the AAA subgroup. I do have an IC and hope it gets huge this year!
!

Thanks for the info on that! I also have an IC and Im hoping for it to get much bigger now that I plan on putting it in the ground. The fruit is suppose to be delicious!

venturabananas
03-26-2011, 06:56 PM
Kostas,

The document that I have considers "Giant Cavendish" to be a group of Cavendish cultivars (including Giant Cavendish, Williams, Robusta, and Valery) that are all within about a foot of each other in height, none of which get more than about 10'.

I have another book that claims "Giant Cavendish" gets 20', but I'm pretty sure they are really talking about "Lacatan" and giving total height, not pseudostem height. Lacatan (= Pisang Masak Hijau, Montechristo, and other names) is what you want if you want the tallest Cavendish cultivar, from what I can tell.

I get the impression that nobody grows these tall Cavendish varieties commercially because the height makes them a hassle to harvest and makes them susceptible to wind damage.

Let us know what you end up planting and how it does.

Kostas
03-27-2011, 08:01 AM
Thank you very much for your replys!

Alex,
I wish you to see it big and taste it's fruits soon!
I hope I taste it's bananas this year!:woohoonaner:

Mark,
Thank you very much for all these information!
Which of the "Giant Cavendish" is supposed to be the tallest in it's group? I ask because I want to grow the tallest of this group in addition to the tallest of all Cavendish,Lacatan!:)

Is "Monte Christo" name only applied to Lacatan or are there other similarly named varieties? I ask because I remember seeing this variety for sale and if it's Lacatan,I may go for it!

I will do let you know when I find and get these Tall Cavendish cultivars and try them! I can't wait to grow them as I haven't grown any AAA so far!!!:woohoonaner:

venturabananas
03-27-2011, 10:54 AM
Kostas,

The document I was getting this information says that all the Giant Cavendish cultivars are about the same height. It is vague on which are truly different versus which are just different local names applied to the same cultivar. From what I've seen in Southern California, Williams is pretty short -- the ones I've seen are closer to 6' than 10'. I haven't seen any of the other "Giant Cavendish" clones grown locally. Various sources seem pretty consistent in claiming the height of Valery as 10', so I'd probably go with that one if you want the tallest of this group.

As for "Montecristo", it appears that this name has been used for different varieties, some Cavendish, some not. When used for a Cavendish clone, I don't know if this variety is different from Lacatan or just another name for it.

sunfish
03-27-2011, 11:18 AM
Monte Cristo

http://www.bananas.org/gallery/watermark.php?file=41114&size=1 (http://www.bananas.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=41114&ppuser=2868)

Kostas
03-28-2011, 10:17 AM
Thank you very much for your replys Mark and Tony!

Mark,

I thought so too about Williams judging by the fact its grown commercially. I am putting more hope on the others. I read in a paper that Valery and Robusta attained similar heights of 8ft during the first crop year and 12ft at the second crop(Lacatan 17ft at the second crop). Valery pupped more than Robusta and Robusta was more wind damaged than both Valery and the taller Lacatan. Valery had heavier bunches than Robusta(and Lacatan) and yielded more and had the best crop efficiency from the other two. Here (http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19710302479.html) is the abstract for anyone wanting to read it.
So i guess,as you said,Valery may be the best choice for the second tallest! I will try to search for ''Giant Cavendish'' cultivar as well and see what i can come up with. I am also curious to see what ''Robusta'' looks like! If anyone has a photo,please post it!:)

Hmm,i thought so. I will let it be then and find one sold clearly as Lacatan.


Tony,

Thank you very much for the picture! If you can,please update when it grows up more and fruits! It will be interesting to see what it turns out to be!

venturabananas
03-28-2011, 10:37 AM
Kostas,

Thanks for the link to that abstract.

I can't recall if "Going Bananas" ships internationally, but they have both Valery and Lacatan.

Kostas
03-28-2011, 12:26 PM
Thank you very much for your reply Mark!

From what i read on their site,unfortunately they dont ship internationally but i will try contacting them and hope for an exception maybe... They have a great list of varieties available!