who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I want to put in some sugar cane. I am in usda zone7.

I have read that it needs warmer areas, but also I have read of people planting it in much colder areas...with success..that is just has a shorter growing season and wont get as large.

I would appreciate any info that others have.

Thanks

Aaron

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I've grown it in Z 3a, so you've got a heads up on me. Plant it early and harvest before the first frost and you'll be fine - it's big grass, so if you can grow Bamboo you can grow Cane.

However, for good sugar production (which is presumably why you'd be growing it) you'll need higher temps. Be aware that it's an intensely heavy feeder.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

It also has a long list of insect pests, especially planthoppers which can disease the cane. Lorax should have some fair insight as Ecuador is a prime location for sugarcane farming.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Im going to keep an eye on this thread great question.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Okay :). Sugarcane is a tall, perennial grass growing 6-19' tall of the family Poaceae & the tribe Andropogoneae. It stores energy as sucrose in it's sap. Minimum annual rainfall required is 24". Brazil is the largest producer of sugarcane. While dropping seeds generate new ratoons (young stalks), it is often necessary to propogate the cane by cuttings made that have at least 1 bud on the stalk.
Pests include Cane Grubs that eat at the roots. These are easily controlled with Confidor or Lorsban. Also, the larvae of some butterfly & moth species, to include the Turnip moth. Other pests are the Sugarcane borer Eoreuma Loftini, Leaf cutting ants, termites, Spittlebugs (esp. Mahanarva fimbriolata & Deois flavopicta), the beetle Migdolus fryanus, & the Planthopper.
The planthopper Eoaetopina flavipes acts as a vector for the phytoplasma causing the Sugarcane disease Ramu Stunt.
It's a wild looking & fascinating plant and, as I said, Lorax can definitely provide info on this - she not only grew it but lives in Ecuador, a prime location for Sugarcane farming.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Thanks for the info. I don't think that one finds most of those pests in the high desert of AZ. I guess that I will need to find some sugarcane and just give it a try next spring.

Cane grows here okay. We get pretty warm temps here. Today was 100F. What limits us on many of the things we plant is not the lack of warmth, nor the intense colds of winter..rather the warm late winters/early springs that trick all the plants into thinking summer is close and the blossom only to loose the blossoms to a late freeze. (that takes most of our pitted fruits 7 out of 8 years)

Will a frost kill sugar cane? Would I need to wait until past danger of frost to plant, or would one be able to plant it and mulch heavy on nights when there were frosts dangers?

thanks again

aaron

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

AZ? I think the question should be is would 120F kill it lol.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

if you look at the hills in front of my house: http://www.bananas.org/f11/coming-he...html#post84000
most of them are in Utah..only the very far left are in AZ. UT is about 1/4 mile north of me, and we are at 4800 feet elevation.

It does get warm here sometimes, but never like down in the valley, and even on our hottest days (+- 105F) the nights cool down to the 70s.

Heck, winters aren't too bad either. Although we are zone 7, most of the winter is quite mild. We only have a couple weeks, usually, that freeze hard. Those weeks may drop into the single digits though. I have seen it below zero here, but that happens rarely.

All in all, this is a pretty good place to live. The only thing that we really lack is water. If you gave us water, we could really grow things here. (and if you would stop those late spring frosts that like to kill our apricot and peach blossoms.)

aaron

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Hi Browndrake :),
Had to get some zzz's... FROST will kill sugarcane. However, you have an out: In Florida, the growers cut the cane stalks down to ground level (prior to cold temperature extremes) and cover the rows with mounds of dirt. The base of the cane, therefore, survives & sends up new Ratoons (young canes) from the buds about the base of the plant.
You're right on 2 counts:
1. Your long warm periods will be extremely advantageous :).
2. Water Will be a problem.
From seed, you can get a 2-4 pound (15% sugar) stalk within 12 months of the original planting date. -- If you start by planting a Ratoon (small plant), you can get the same results in just 9-11 months.
Temperature & Moisture : Sugarcane does best at a humid 70-90 degrees F.
I use two methods with my Australian tree fern to combat the humidity problem.
1. Frequent spraying using a water bottle.
2. I fill a large, shallow container (ie. artificial plastic fish pond) with water & put the fern beside it. The water, by evaporation in the heat, produces the necessary humid conditions for the plant. You might try planting the Cane around such containers.

Curious: Will you be growing a Chewing, Crystal, or Syrup variety?

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Browndrake, it will love your high temps but you will have to water it like nobody's business. Most of the commercial cane here in Ecuador is grown right on the floodplains of the rivers, in areas that get in excess of 80cm of rain a year. Frost WILL kill it, as will becoming parched. Elevation however isn't an issue, because there are cane fields in the deserts at 2200m here (7212 feet) that produce some of the best sugar in the country - the irrigation systems are amazing. If you can manage to keep it alive, the heat and dryness of your location will concentrate the sugar in the stalks, and increase your yield slightly over those who grow in humider areas. Cut your cane before the first frost, or before it blooms (you'll notice a lengthening of the terminal nodes) - whichever comes first. After it blooms, your sugar content will drop dramatically. On the other hand, if you let a couple of canes bloom you'll have seed to start indoors for next year, since you won't be able to store ratoons long enough (with your winter).

In my personal cane patch (in the jungle), I grow a cultivar called 'Flor del Azucar' which is a mixed-purpose cane for syrup and crystal. I have a small wooden hand-driven trapiche (cane-crusher) and a series of copper pots for the reduction of the finished product. From this cane, I get panela (first-stage sugar) of a deep mahogany brown, and I don't refine it any further than that.

Michael, I actually have more problems with pests in my timber bamboo than I do with my cane - the only thing in this area that seems to really affect it are the root-borers, and multiculturing with pineapples seems to reduce that significantly (and the cane, which grows super fast, is ideal shade for the bromeliads). Other than that it's grasshoppers/locusts, and I just pick those off and eat them when they come in.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Thanx for the info, Beth :) ! I'll only be growing it aesthetically but Do want nice looking plants.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I should also tell you that in commercial canefields, the planters remove the ratoons after harvest and burn off the rootstock, to return the nutrients to the soil as ash. Cane is such a heavy feeder that if they didn't do this (along with intensive re-manuring of the fields) the next crop wouldn't take.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Great Thread !! Could use some Great Pics to go with it !!

:woohoonaner:

Beth: Can't grow pineapples here (esp. with all the hummingbirds). As for insects, this place is Insect Central which is going to be a major challenge. :eek: Eat grasshoppers/locusts !!

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

They're tasty! And who says hummingbirds would be a problem with pineapple crops? A few seeds in the fruits is not so huge a deal...

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Great shot, Beth :) !
Did have a great Pineapple plant, last summer... If seeds aren't so big a problem, might try one, again.
Interesting... I might have to get gutsy on the grasshopper thing. I Luv grub worms, anyway.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

If growing it for ornamental purposes only, try Saccharum arundinaceum. It's hardy to zone 7.

Frank

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Thanx :) Frank! Will Definitely try that one.
BTW, also picked up on your advice, in another thread, about leaving banana plants dry during over-wintering. Will be taking that advice this winter since I lost one of my Blue Javas (soggy corm) this spring.
Thanx for both Great Tips!

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

We have quite a bit of cane growing around town. It gets pretty ratty looking if not cared for. I wanted to plant some but my wife said no, it's an eyesore. :rolleyes:

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

:2719:

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

She lets me do just about anything gardening wise so I have to respect her athooratiii every once in a while. ;)

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

It's only an eyesore if you don't detrash the old blades, Mitch.... If you care for it the same way you would a banana, it's quite attractive.

Oh, I s'pose I should mention - the pic above is of cane growing on the sandbars (!) of the Pastaza River. It's a one-cycle a year crop there, since the river floods annually.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Yes lots of people have trashy looking bananas around here.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I have no doubt, but the other half does. Well she likes my Tanglad so maybe I'll try to sneak some in, keep it purty for her, then devulge what it is later. :ha:

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Lol giving up information "after the fact" is a specialty of mine.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Aw, come on... :) That's the Fun-Side of growing nanners!!
Of course, it DOES help to be an honoured member of B.R.Us :ha:.

:woohoonaner:

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I see them in the strangest places were people obviously are not doing anything to them. In ditches, next to trash bins, etc. My favorite is the walkway behind the houses in my subdivision. I found one banana type plant that came up on the other side of someones fence backing up to uncleared land. Took a few bananas but it was inedible. Lol I hate ornamentals.

Stange thing is I never noticed them before coming here ;)

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Hey Ewitte... 'Ornamental' bananas...!? :eek: !! Sounds horrifying !! In fact, my Zebrina could be destined to displacement should I get hold of the Zebrina cross that makes edible nanners :).

Hey Momoese... Since you're Obviously not a member in good standing of B.R.Us, Definitely sneak a cane in & purty it up for her... she'll never know :).

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I must admit that I know even less about sugar cane than I do about bananas. I figured though, that if I could grow bananas up here, then why not sugar cane. I was going to do it when I lived in the central valley of CA, but then moved away before reading up on it.

What are the differences in the varieties? I guess that I can find a link or two..and will, but if you know please pipe up. I would think that crystal is what i would want. Is there a difference in the cold hardiness of the various cultivars?

I would love to be able to so something like that. How much cane does one need in order for it to be worth while to do such (for personal use only).
As I said water is the biggest problem here. We have it, only we have to pay for it. I will probably be building a new home..but not for 3-4 years. I plan on putting in a gray water system...it will supply enough water for most of my agricultural en devours.
Is horse manure good for feeding them? I have a free, pretty much unlimited supply of horse manure.
how long before transplant to ground would you recommend starting seeds inside? Are the seeds easy enough to harvest? Also, I am not sure if it will go to seed before frost here..guess I will see next year.

Thanks everybody for all the info.. I think this might develop into a valuable thread for many people...definitely for me.

aaron

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Hi :) Browndrake,
Chewing varieties have a pulp that is easily spat out once the cane has been chewed on so it's more for eating raw.
Crystal varieties have the highest sucrose content and are great for making dry sugar with.
Syrup varieties contain sugar molecules that resist crystalization and, therefore, are great for making things like molasses from.

Your other questions would best be answered by Beth since I will only be growing it for ornamental purposes.

I Definitely think you're right :) ! This should continue to evolve as an Absolute guide to growing - even refining - Sugarcanes!

:woohoonaner:

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

How much sugar are you trying to produce a year? I make about 100 kgs of panela each season from a field that's about 5 meters square (I have no idea how many canes that is, I don't keep count.) I'm doing it more for the molasses, truth be known - it's tough to find here, and I'm fond of pumpernickle breads...

As long as it's aged properly. I use a mix of cow and chicken, since it's what I have available; some fields here are done on (properly aged) humanure as well.

As soon as you have the seeds. There's no such thing as a ratoon that's too big to be planted out, but there is such a thing as one that's too small. They're attractive houseplants in the interim. Seeds are very easy to harvest - just like you would with any other grass; cane makes big plumes of seeds that are a) obvious and b) easy to cut down with a pair of shears and maybe a ladder depending on the height of your cane. Mine goes to about 10' in good seasons, but then again I never have to worry about ratoons.

When you do finally get to harvest, use a machete to cut the canes off just above ground level - if you've got a sharp one, it should take between one and two whacks. The best way I've found is to hold the cane at about waist height with my left hand and swing the machete in towards the ground with my right. Now that I have the rhythm of it, I can harvest my little patch in about half an hour.

Equally, I'm a bad person to talk to about cultivar hardiness. In Canada, I grew S. arundinaceum (hardy cane) which is nominally hardy to Zone 7, and colder zones with protection. It's a little less sweet than its southern relatives. Here in Ecuador, I grow various cultivars of S. officinarum (true cane) which is less hardy but much sweeter. As I mentioned before, the Ecuadorean cultivar 'Flor de Azucar' is a multipurpose cane suitable for both molasses and crystalline sugar...

HOWEVER

What you get out of your cane is highly dependant on how you process it. I've used "crystal" varieties for chewing (they're much less sweet than "chewing" varieties) and I've also used "syrup" varieties to make panela, which is a hard block of solid sugar. The amount of molasses in the finished product varies greatly depending on the cultivar, hence the "syrup" varieties which give more of this to less "mother of sugar" (which is what is further processed to make white sugar.)

This said, I usually use the more traditional "Ribbon Cane" method of refinement, because I like my sugar dark. It's also a great deal simpler than commercial refinement, since it only requires the copper kettles and a reliable candy thermometer.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

No problem, Mike!

Mitchel, have you seen the purple-leafed cultivar of S. officinarum? Highly ornamental AND still has the sugary goodliness!

:nanadrink:
Frank.

P.S. Lorax...Katoi Farang? LOL...isn't that "Lady-boy foreigner" in Thai? :ha:

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

No I haven't. If the stalks look like this I may be interested!

Saccharum officinarum

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

thanks so much for all the info. I have lots more reading to do....
Now the search begins for seeds and working on preps for next year.

Everybody is going to think I am a nut...I started this whole mess taking on the project of trying to find/develop apricots that bloom late enough to successfully fruit here most years. Now I have bananas, and going to be getting sugar cane.... who knows what is next... People have already told me that all these things can't be done here.. I guess that I just don't listen too well at times.

I have many, many more questions, but they are premature until I get seeds and get some plants started.

thanks again

aaron

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I've seen it called 'Pele's Smoke' and 'Violaceum'. Logee's has it called 'Purple Sugarcane', lol. Supposedly, it is sweeter also!

The old stems on the regular variety of sugarcane look like the one you linked to. At least the older canes on the one in our greenhouse do. I like the plant, but watch out for the little hairs where the blade meets the stalk! They can be painful!

Frank

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

More puple Sugarcane!

http://www.landcraftenvironment.com/...1/saccpscl.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2212/...1fe35b.jpg?v=0

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1099/...4c95f6.jpg?v=0

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Beth, sorry haven't been up on things past few days............... you eat the grasshoppers and locusts............how?..........not just raw right?........any sauce or frying for example.......or what?

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Blah, no, not raw! I pop them in the hot-air popper.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Thanks for clearing that up. Some chili powder would seem appropriate.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

They're kind of nutty; if you roll them in sugar syrup first, they come out like caramel peanuts.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Oh God !!!!!! :eek: Not just before lunch!!!!!!

Browndrake: Go For It! My standing motto is 'If it can't be done, I wanna be the 1st to try :) !

Frank: Thanx for S. Officinarum info :) ! Think I'll give it a shot!

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Jeez, Michael. They're really good sources of protein! It's no stranger than eating peanuts.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Yeah, but peanuts don't squirm when ya try to stick them in your mouth. BTW, a friend caught me one, yesterday, and I Almost did it... but chickened out. What do they taste like?

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Neither do locusts, after you pop them in the popper. They're kind of nutty.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Okay :)... In the popper might not be so bad & we get Lots of locusts around here. BTW, it was a grasshopper I tried to eat.
Oh, and Thanx for the pic of the Andean Spectacled Bear :) !! Can't imagine a little bear, that cute, being on the endangered list. Why?

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Habitat endangerment, mostly - they require fairly specific forest conditions (cloud forests above 1200m of altitude, where both Cecropia palmata and Neurolepis nana grow in abundance.) This is also prime land for vacation properties and cool-crop farming (maize, wheat, barley) so people are invading something fierce. Some farmers think they eat lambs, but that's pretty spurious given both their size and vegetarian habits. Notwithstanding, they still get hunted a bit. Also, Spectacled Bears used to be very popular in circuses down here, largely because they're quite calm and docile.

I have a friend (Rodrigo in Alto Choco) who runs a Spectacled Bear Rehab center, where he goes out into the cloudforest with former circus bears and teaches them how to be bears again, right up to how to climb certain trees for the big edible beans, and how to find termites. He also does catch and release with wild bears that are in people's farmland - he tranqs them and returns them to his 50,000 hectare cloudforest reserve, where they won't be bothered by people.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Good to hear about the help they're getting :). Good to hear about the 50,000 hectare cloudforest reserve, too. A little critter that inoffensive & cute should Never face extinction. Don't think I care to go to any circuses... Back on-topic :):

Bigdog, I notice you live in Tennessee. Can you grow sugarcane there, especially, the purple-leafed S. Officinarum?

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I was talking to an old-timer last night. He told me that the "old-timers" used to grow sugarcane here for molasses. They probably haven't done it though in 70+ years. He has no idea what cultivar or any other info about it. Just that they did it and that parts from the old crusher or grinder or whatever it is are still out there. He says that they hooked horses up to it and they would go around in circles processing the cane.

Any suggestions on specific cultivars? I know that there are several that have been bred for Florida and other places stateside..but many of them do no produce seed. I think that I would like to get one that will seed and be true to form from seed.

Beth, do you think that Flor del Azucar would survive here? A mixed type like that sounds wonderful. If not that do you or anybody have suggestions of another similar type that might do well here?

Open to any ideas.

I would like to be able to produce 50-100 kilos of sugar/molasses a year.

Thanks

aaron

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

Looks like Mitch is going to sneak it in!


Browndrake & micheal keep us updated on your progress... oh and dont for get PICTURES.

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I have no idea, but it might be worth a shot...

Re: who can enlighten me about sugar cane?
 

I am not sure why, but I previously had the impression those were just ornamentals

aaron