Gard

Musella lasiocarpa needs stratification. Would it be a good idea to do that to seeds of Musa and Ensete?

Gard

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mrbungalow

No, don't do this with Musas or Ensete. The key is to break dormancy. This dormancy is for example broken with high-low temperatures in Musa species, and cold stratisfaction in Musella. You can use your refridgerator or put them in your basement if it's cold enough. Ensete seems more easy to sprout, no need for changing high-low temps. Ensete sprouts at constant 25-30 degrees C.

Erlend

PS: Vi faar virkelig trent engelsken her inne, ikke sant?!
(Translated: We get to practice our english in here, don't we?!)

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Gard

It's about 50-95°F (10-35°C) low/high temperature at my seeds now, which is only Musa.
But Ensete sprouts fine with the same treat as my Musas?

PS:Ja, komplisert botanikk-engelsk er ikke bare-bare! Nå kan de bare lure på hva det betyr=)

Gard

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mrbungalow

Probably, but you can also sprout Ensete in a constant 25-30 degrees. First time I sprouted Ensete, I put them on my bathroom floor.

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wim

How do you stratificate musella seeds ?

Erlend, Gard,
What bananas are you growing in Norway ? How do you grow them during summer and winter ?

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With kind regards
Wim

Gard

Stratification is to expose the seeds to low temperatures. Usually, this is done by putting the seeds in moist sand in the refrigerator (which has about 40°F) for some weeks. On Musella lasiocarpa this should be done in 4-6 weeks.

I haven't yet had any winters with bananas, just about trying to germinate them now. But next year I think I will use the under-the-house method on the bananas not cold hardy at all, and make a netting cage around the ones that are a little cold hardy, and fill up with hay or dried leafs or whatever I can get.

Gard

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mrbungalow

I grow mainly "Himalayan" type bananas, and the most cold-hardy asian types. My list at the moment includes:
Musa Sikkimensis
Musa "Helens hybrid"
Musa Basjoo
Musa Formosana (Same species as Musa Basjoo?)
Musa Nagensium X
Musa Velutina
Musa Flaviflora
Ensete Ventricosum

All basjoos and sikkims, as well as helens will stay outside this year, others are kept inside or in a cold basement.

Erlend

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wim

The stratification I knew involved sowing the seeds in a moist mixture and than letting the tray freeze, defrost, freeze, defrost, ... a number of times. I wondered if this freezing was also involved with banana seeds. Thanks for clarifying that!

I have
Musa Sikkimensis
Musa Thomsonii
Muselle lasiocarpa

I was thinking of expanding with :
Musa Basjoo
Musa Yunnan
Musa Velutina
Musa ensete Ventricosum
Musa ensete Ventricosum "Maurellii"
Musa Rajapuri
Musa Super Dwarf Cavendishi

Do you think this is a reasonable choice for zone 8?

I'm wondering about the Rajapuri. I've read it tastes good, but will it flower and set fruit in my zone ?

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With kind regards
Wim

Gard

I'm not sure how the USDA zones work, as the Norwegian system is different. Any links about how it work...?
Erlend: Jeg er i H2-3, det er vel du også? Jeg vet ikke hva gjennomsnittstemperaturen er her, men sist vinter var det laveste -16°C, men det var et varmt år, vanligvis vil det være nedi -20°C. Hva er de laveste temperaturerene der du bor?
Translated: I'm in (Norwegian zone) H2-3, I guess you are that too? I don't know what the average temperature is here, but last winter the coldest temperature was 3°F, but it was a warm year, usually it would been down at -4°F. What are the lowest temperatures you'll get where you live?

I know Musa velutina is pretty cold hardy, as are (as if you didn't know) Basjoo.
Ensete is an own family inside the Musaceae family, so it's called Ensete ventricosum. But I don't know how hardy it is. From what I have read, it is at least a little hardy. But Ensete glaucum is more hardy than Ensete ventricosum, isn't it?
I have only read about these, I haven't any experience yet. The others I haven't read about, so I don't know.

Gard

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mrbungalow

Gard; Take a look at www.scanpalm.no and you will find a USDA zone map for Norway. Our zones are very different, since you live on the eastern part of norway and I am on the west. I think you are in zon 5 or 6, Bergen county is 8B in some areas. We rarely get below -10 degrees here in Bergen, and the Oslo area/eastern Norway can have -30 on occasions!
BUT, eastern Norway is better for growing bananas in the summer. You have higher and more stable temperatures there, and plants will probably grow faster.

Wim, all the species mentioned sound fine for Belgium. I know of a guy there who has both musa basjoo and musa sikkimensis that are as tall as his 2 story house! The only plant on the list I would not buy is super dwarf cavendish. Looks more like cabbage than a banana, but I guess it's a matter of personal taste. Rajapuri fruiting is a challenge, you will have to store it in the basement or frostfree greenhouse atleast one winter for it to fruit.

Gard, it is commonly believed that ensete glaucum is more cold hardy than ensete ventricosum. This is wrong!! Trials outside shows that e.ventricosum out-performs e.glaucum by a mile in cool areas, even in England. And even ensete ventricosum needs to be overwintered frost-free. Musa velutina has proved hardier than commonly believed, but it is nothing compared to musa basjoo. The best choice for your area would be musa basjoo.

Erlend

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Taylor

Hola,
Español es el único idioma que puede hablar. Estoy celoso de ustedes. Deseo que yo puedo aprender a noruego, pero ellos hacen no ellos enseñan lo en los Estados Unidos que sé de. Si cometí un error, yo soy sólo en español 2. Lo siento.

¿Así, Cómo están sus plátanos allí?

Gracias-

Taylor

Taylor

Im only kidding.

Stratification eh? Never heard of it.

wim

A USDA hardiness zone is a geographically-defined zone in which a specific category of plant life is capable of growing, as defined by temperature hardiness, or ability to withstand the minimum temperatures of the zone. The zones were first developed by the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), and have subsequently been adopted elsewhere. They are categorized according to the mean of the lowest temperature recorded each winter, termed the "average annual minimum temperature". Thus if five successive winters reach respective minima of −14 °C, −12 °C, −8 °C, −16 °C, and −13 °C, the mean coldest temperature is −12.6 °C, placing the site in zone 7. (from Wikipedia).

One has to be carefull with these zones. There are many more factors that rule the regions where a plant can survive, like humidity, rainfall, length of the low temperatures (10 minutes or 10 hours), the maximum temps that day, the length of the winter, ..., add to that the microclimate of your garden , the fitness of the plant (is in in a pot or in the soil, is it sick or healty, is it a seedling or a 10 year old mature plant, ...). But its far better than having nothing.

Here you can find the European hardiness zones.

I've read in this article that Ensete glaucum is less hardy than Ensete ventricosum. I've destilled my "plants wanted" list from this article.

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With kind regards
Wim

Gard

On one map I am in USDA 8 and in another I'm in USDA 5/6. Hmmm...

I had gotten the impression that M. glaucum was most hardy. Good to know it isn't. I will have both though.

I translated the thing. It's so natural to write in Norwegian to Norwegians...

Gard

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mrbungalow

Gracias senor Taylor! Los plataneras estan muy bien!

Actually Taylor, many norwegians speak spanish very well because the Canary Islands have almost become an extention of Scandinavia. Frozen scandinavinas travel down there winter as well as summer. Many norwegians have their second home in Spain, and therefore speak spanish. As you probably know, many parts of Norway are nasty during the winter months.

I totally understand that you should not speak your mothers tongue on international/ english speaking forums, and will try to talk norwegian only in the PM section. But as Gard said, very easy to talk norwegian to norwegians!

Cheers
Erlend

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Gard

We have just started with spanish at school, but just from this autumn, so I'm not any good yet...
Will also try to only write English at the forums.

Gard

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