ImperialExotics

Sorry, but the context above 'dirty aspects of commercial agriculture' is a highly biased remark and not very objective.

The major trend I see from the proponents of organic is that there is some undercurrent of evil plot the likes of which would make Prof. Doofenschmirtz proud.

There are no board rooms filled with cigar smoke with evil villains wringing their hands and hatching evil plots.

Based on the kinds of rhetoric I hear frequently from various hippies I know, the organic crowd isn't making themselves look like 'informed' buyers, and frankly they seem to be among the least informed individuals I have ever listened to.

I asked a number of people what the big deal about organic fruits and vegetables were, and every single person said they didn't use any pesticides of any kind and they tasted far better than regular crops.

How can someone be an 'informed consumer' when they don't understand or know ANYTHING at all about the subject?

While I do not agree with the strong arm tactics of the GM manufacturers though, but they do have a right to protect their interests, and sorry to break it to people here who don't comprehend this, scientists cost a lot of money, they get really nice paychecks. Hundreds of them on a payroll and years of research cost a lot of money.

And I'm pretty sure that even the biggest of hippies would sure want to protect their rights if they created something....

I did read about a genetics project that was going to give away their results for free, just to counter the Monsanto Nazis and their heavy handed threats to farmers who did nothing wrong.

But again I'll ask, where are the organic solutions for LARGE SCALE farming? unless organics can mass produce massive crops, it's a novelty at best, suited for the Trustifarians who shop at whole foods market and bitch on their blogs about everything.

G.W.

I had never heard of acid sulphate soil. PASS ASS AASS etc
What are acid sulfate soils? (Department of Environment and Resource Management)

I seems there aren't any problems unless it's excavated?

You must try growing pineapples.
They are easy to grow, drought tolerant, shade tolerant.
They enjoy high levels of fertilizer, half a bucket of poop per plant. (urea and SOP foliar sprays at my house)
The fertilizer ratio is nearly identical to bananas so they make a good natural intercrop.

There is no comparison between store and home grown.

With proper fertilization they grow as big as your head, orange all the way to the top, and the SMELL !!
Oh the delicious fragrance fills the house so that people will stop just inside the door to ask what it is.
They never believe it's a single pineapple until I show them (which I have stopped doing because they always want to eat it)

One of the coolest parts is the planting density. Roughly one plant every foot makes good use of available space.
I currently have 90 pineapple plants intercropped in a space that only fits 5 bananas. !!!
Much better use of space.

I no longer purchase pineapples at the store as there have been several instances of "Severe Gastrointestinal Disturbances" as result of ingestion. Not every pineapple, but not every raw hamburger gives you food poison either.
I make one (chlorothalonil dip) fungicide application at planting to keep tops and slips from rotting.
I monitor for ants and apply Fipronil laced bait when they arrive. I have a tamperproof rodent bait station in the patch. There is a very serious looking pitbull chained immediately adjacent. I have two live traps set at all times, but don't let the name fool you LOL.
It isn't ORGANIC, and I won't be cutting into Central America's market share, but at least my colon is safer.

Exactly.
NOVELTY
You are also right about the hippies making themselves objectionable in general.

where's my 30,000 pounds of organic sustainable K bro?

__________________
winter winners, jackfruit, carambola, hua moa, d namwah, hak ip lychee with pink leaves 2 days before a cold snap eeeek!

Winter losers, kohala longan, misi luki, 80% jackfruit seedling loss

first bloomers, HUA MOA, DC, D NAMWAH, FHIA 17, KANADARIAN, RAJA PURI, M D NAMWAH

best bunch FHIA 17 , undisclosed

WORST BUNCH hua moa, 2 fingers

momoese

X 2, only I don't feed mine much. Best fruit I've ever smelled or eaten is my home grown Smooth Cayenne Pineapple. A real treat!

momoese

Shame that this is how they earn a living, there must be better ways to use their skills. GM is not doing anything to save the world or the hungry people from starving. It's just making the biotech and chemical corps rich and powerful.

G.W.

Adding K will reduce "Internal Browning".
I have seen this in underfed fruits.

I'm at about half Smooth Cayenne and half MD2.

Based on slip production I should have 300+ plants within 2 years.

__________________
winter winners, jackfruit, carambola, hua moa, d namwah, hak ip lychee with pink leaves 2 days before a cold snap eeeek!

Winter losers, kohala longan, misi luki, 80% jackfruit seedling loss

first bloomers, HUA MOA, DC, D NAMWAH, FHIA 17, KANADARIAN, RAJA PURI, M D NAMWAH

best bunch FHIA 17 , undisclosed

WORST BUNCH hua moa, 2 fingers

momoese

I haven't experience any internal browning yet. I feed a general purpose organic plant food (EB Stone) once a year plus whatever Mango leaves/flowers and grass clippings end up composting on the ground between the lava rocks. There is some dog urine as well. I fed some chicken manure one year and lost most of my mangos after the fruit set. Big mistake. This year is the 6th ratoon crop for this stand so I'm going to remove it and start from scratch. The fruit this year are way smaller.

ImperialExotics

Now that is nonsense. Not doing anything?

Drought resistant tomatoes, super wheats that produce higher yields, to name two major items, is not my idea of nothing.

I'm glad I don't walk around with the impression that any scientist who doesn't embrace organic as their religion is a soulless monster intent on destroying the planet through harsh chemicals for their Biotech overlords.

And I'll repeat for the record: I am far from being against an 'organic' solution to growing. I try to use as little pesticides as possible, and what I use is a friendly solution, however it is far too expensive for anything other than a backyard garden and most certainly not suitable for large scale production.

Solve the problem where you don't drastically increase production costs to the point where store bought bananas go from .69 cents a pound to 2.50 a pound, and increase labor cost 3.5x because organic pesticides need to be sprayed more, meaning higher labor. And finally, put an end to the organic elitism and hypocrisy saying how great organic is when organic approved pesticides are harmful to fish and aquatic life.

momoese

I never said that if they didn't embrace organic they were soulless monsters, that was you. I simply said GM is not the way and there must be better ways to use their talent/skills. Perhaps they could work on some GE beneficial bugs that self terminate after a certain time, or a weed eating bug that self terminates when it runs out of certain weeds to eat, etc etc.

I don't believe that a lot of the organic pesticides are necessary either. Biodiversity should be used more in organic gardening. In my backyard "organic" garden I use nothing toxic for us or our pets. I have beneficial insects that have been drawn to the garden naturally like jumping spiders, ladybugs, parasitic wasps, and a few praying mantis. I could dust with BT but choose to hand pick caterpillars because the area is small enough. When I need a spray I use water, cayenne pepper, garlic and dish soap. My soil is alive and healthy, not soulless and inert. The plants reward me for my efforts.

ImperialExotics

Actually, you said:

GM is not doing anything to save the world or the hungry people from starving. It's just making the biotech and chemical corps rich and powerful.

You didn't use those words specifically but you are most certainly making the implication with the words you are choosing to use.

You are seriously going to try to say that drought tolerant tomatoes, wheat that can grow pretty much anywhere, etc. that has substantially higher yields than their predecessors isn't doing anything to help feed the world?

Sorry, but I have to call the ridiculous flag on that one.

momoese

Sorry but for every claimed success they have done way more harm to the eco system, farmers and the inhabitants of this planet. Besides that there are drought tolerant heirloom varieties and farming methods but if Monsanto and the like have there way there will only be GM seeds. You call your ridiculous flag all you want but what's truly ridiculous is how they've hijacked the worlds food supply and some people don't seem to mind. We should all be in an uproar about what's taking place.

momoese

NigelHaslam

Fair enough.. I didn't choose my words well and I apologize. I was clouding the issue by including (in my mind), intensive animal food production, issues like cage hens and dairy cows on Posilac etc etc.

I do tend to believe that some large scale commercial agribusinesses guilty of putting profit ahead of people / animals but they are not alone. Nor are they run by evil people. They are just getting on with life and desiring the same shiny things that we are all encouraged to aspire to by the media.. houses.. cars.. boats etc.

We are relentlessly encouraged to consume not only by the media but by governments who all buy into the economics of growth as the norm. However infinite growth cannot be supported in any system, so something's got to give.

Here's a very good article about feeding the world which explores the issues of organic vs commercial methods and the state of humanity.

The 9 billion-people question | The Economist

Cheers
Nigel

PS. I've been a bit busy recently hence no posts.

NigelHaslam

A lot of people are becoming wheat intolerant these days. Gluten free"" was a term one didn't hear very often 20 years ago but it's commonplace now.

I can't help wondering if there's a link between the increase in such conditions / allergies / new illnesses like ADHD and the massive growth of Autism with the use of the hybrid crops herbicides and pesticides.

No one knows what side effects could emerge from GM crops but they're being pushed on the world in a highly aggressive manner. Trade agreements are bound in to an agreement to purchase GM products

Terminator seeds are manipulated to be infertile.. the DNA of plants ain't so far different to that of humans... put that 2 + 2 together.

I don't think anyone has the right to copyright life.

Nature's abundance is nowhere more evident that the production of seeds. Monsanto and the like are seeking to take that away from the general population and they have got themselves into a controlling position at government to do so.

Organic may not be able to feed the world, so perhaps the world population needs to stop growing. It's a proven fact that life will expand to meet the availability of food.

This is a world problem that will have to be addressed pretty soon.

PR-Giants

This thread has gone all over the place, so here's another.

Desertification is a major problem in countries that practice common grazing lands, the lands are exploited and neglected. If this continues it will only increase the need for GM crops, maybe these folks at Monsanto are visionaries.

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15,000+ Varieties

G.W.

Is that when you put ice cream/fudge sauce on your mashed potatoes instead of butter/gravy ???

__________________
winter winners, jackfruit, carambola, hua moa, d namwah, hak ip lychee with pink leaves 2 days before a cold snap eeeek!

Winter losers, kohala longan, misi luki, 80% jackfruit seedling loss

first bloomers, HUA MOA, DC, D NAMWAH, FHIA 17, KANADARIAN, RAJA PURI, M D NAMWAH

best bunch FHIA 17 , undisclosed

WORST BUNCH hua moa, 2 fingers

momoese

Nothing a few chemtrails can't fix, or make worse.

PR-Giants

Regardless of what side of the fence someone is on, most people realize the solution starts with being better stewards of the land.


GW, Dessertification is when they take away your ice cream and fudge sauce.

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PR-Giants Photo Gallery


15,000+ Varieties

G.W.

that sounds more like dedessertification


CHEMTRAILS ?? seriously?

And the Lord said unto them " Thou shalt not engage in trolling with thine ridiculous, unsubstantiated, inflammatory theories or I shall smite thee, in my mercy". And it was good.

__________________
winter winners, jackfruit, carambola, hua moa, d namwah, hak ip lychee with pink leaves 2 days before a cold snap eeeek!

Winter losers, kohala longan, misi luki, 80% jackfruit seedling loss

first bloomers, HUA MOA, DC, D NAMWAH, FHIA 17, KANADARIAN, RAJA PURI, M D NAMWAH

best bunch FHIA 17 , undisclosed

WORST BUNCH hua moa, 2 fingers

momoese

Yes seriously

momoese

A great article that gets into a lot of we have been talking about here. It's also the first I've heard about the California Clean rating system.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/ma...01412-L1&_r=1&