M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

OK, not exactly a pretty sight! I've had four hard frosts here at the house, the last one less than a week ago (last Saturday morning was 27F). Went for a little walk around the yard the other day, and noticed that this species had started to grow again already. Really doesn't prove anything yet, but I think it's a good sign.





The mother pseudostem is still growing also, but it was easier to get pics of the two pups.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

its very early in the winter to be getting cocky... i would definitely sneak a pup off into a protected zone. gets colder down in the tennessee valley than it does over here

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Didn't realize my post was cocky.

I'm very glad for you that your location is warmer than mine (in the winter)! I'm not going to 'sneak' a pup in though. It's either cold-hardy here or it isn't, so saving one for next year would really serve no purpose.

Again, sorry for being so cocky. I thought I was just making an observation. Thanks.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

dont worry bigdog....i live in sparta. 2hrs west and 15 mins south of you. and it has gotten to be freezing here too. tonight it is to be 26 degrees. im glad your trees are showing a resistance to the cold. i wish i had that same resistance!:coldbanana: :coldbanana: this is where id rather be....:islandsharkbanana:. lol i dont think your post are corky. we live in tn. thats how we all are. :rolleyes:

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Can't we all just get along.???:D :2185: :D :dreadlocksnaner: :dreadlocksnaner: :dreadlocksnaner:

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Thankyou for the pic' Bigdog. I was wondering..........You dont have any type of protection for that baby all winter out in the cold:coldbanana: ? WELL then all I have to say is I WANT 1 TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:naner7hat: MG

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

I haven't protected it yet, but probably will at least lay some extra mulch around the bases next weekend. I may put a bag-o-leaves around one of the younger pseudostems also.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Big dog, would you keep us updated on your M.itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis, if it survives the winter for you it would be worth a try for me in the UK........Thanks Tony

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

I am 99% sure 51st state is only joking around when he said "cocky"! Gotta love british humour! :-)

Thanks for sharing the photo. According to your picture: The stems seem to show good hardiness to cold, almost like m. basjoo. If I was you though, I would not take any chances and wrap it in a thick layer of hay, this way trying to preserve as much stem as possible. I would love to see flowers on your banana next september!

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Frank hope they stay well for you all winter it'd be great to not lose the p-stems and start where they left off next spring :D

And I agree with mr. bungalow, I think 51st state meant no harm by his post... I have a brit friend who lives in Kentucky and his humour (see I even spell it right for our UK members!) is a mixture of Benny Hill and Jeff Foxworthy... He's a hoot but could easily be mistaken in online posts for being rude.

-James-

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

I cut the biggest pup down to about 2 feet tall, and covered it with a bag full of dry leaves. I was very encouraged to see that the outer layers of the pseudostem were still firm, and the center leaf was quite green still. In contrast, Musa cheesmani's outer layers of pseudostem were a bit mushy, and the middle, while still white, had lots of brown around it.

It does remind me of Musa basjoo, and the two are closely related, so that's good news. The texture of the pseudostem is very similar, sort of a tough, fibrous, hard outer layer. Most of the other bananas I have, you can cut through the pseudostem like a hot knife through butter. This one, while still easy to cut through with a knife, is more difficult to wack through than most.

While Musa basjoo did grow some between frosts also, this banana seemed to grow faster than basjoo or sikkimensis (but my sikkimensis is my slowest-growing banana). Time will tell though. It's technicaly not even winter yet! I'm being a bit hopeful because it is such a nice plant, I'd hate to lose it. At the same time, I don't want to go to extensive lengths to protect it because I like to evaluate the true cold-hardiness of Musa species. Someone's gotta do it, right? I can save the pseudostem on a Cavendish with enough protection, but that doesn't mean it's cold-hardy. I'm really only interested in plants that require little to no protection in my zone, because I don't like having to go to all the lenghts to protect stuff. So, if it's cold-hardy that's great, and I'll continue to grow it. But if it isn't cold-hardy, and I save a pup anyway for next year, it would just be an annual that I had to bring inside every year, and I'm tired of bringing plants into the garage (or under the house) for winter.

I'm sure Kev didn't mean anything by saying I was cocky. Probably just British humour, like several mentioned. No hard feelings! And as far as the TN Valley being colder than the UK in the winter, I'm very well aware of that. It's also colder than Central Alabama or Eastern NC in the winter, and I am under no delusions about my zone. Long-term (1971-2006), this is a zone 7a, bordering on zone 7b (avg. extreme min. low is around 4.8F). Most years we can expect a zone 8a low minimum temp, like we have for the past 4 winters, but it can dip into the single digits every few years, and even below zero (Fahrenheit) temps can happen (although not since 1996). I have done my homework on the climate, and I guess I do tend to get a bit defensive when someone who doesn't live anywhere near here tries to educate me on it. I should probably just laugh it off to myself and let it go. Apologies to Kev if I offended him (I don't try to offend anybody).

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

BigDog,
I ain't tired of toting nanners in, yet!!! If you want to adopt one of your pups out on this, let me know and I will sign the papers!!! Would love to add it to my collection... I am interested in learning, by your experimentations, its true cold hardiness....
Keep us posted!!!
Randy

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Hah! You've seen my crawl space, and know how big I am. Trust me, give it a couple more years and you'll be so over it. I guarantee you if you had to lug them under my crawl space you would anyway!

If it comes back next spring, you are second on the list.
Hey, let me do the dirty work eh? LOL! No problem. I like doing it.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Bigdog thanks for the post and pictures! :moosenaner: Without those I wouldnt have known this was my next baby! I'll start hunting her down today! I would like to pronounce this species name. Can anyone break down the pronounciation ?if you dont mind.:04: Have a great day!:2623: magicgreen

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Say the word and I will have the adoption papers drawn up!!!! I will give you unsupervised visitation anytime as long as the two of you stay in my yard where I could keep an eye on you... Seriously, BigDog, thanks and let me know...
Randy

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Here's the best I can come up with for the pronunciation:

Shee-shwong-bah-nah-en-sis.

That's pretty close anyway. The "X" is prounounced "sh".

Of course, you could just call it var. gigantea!

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Alrighty :naner7hat: , Thanks so much Bigdog. Is Gigantea another name for this banana?

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Musa itinerans var. Gigantea is what it was known as before being renamed.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Well, after the new growth was nipped again, we had a few days with highs in the high 60s and low 70s, and this banana started taking off again. Here it is as of this afternoon. This is all new growth in less than a week. Just how cold-hardy it is remains to be seen, but I think that it is safe to say that it doesn't mind cool weather.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Very good! Here in Ohio, it is 35degs. So when i get mine it"ll need protection! I still want it! :0513: MG

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Can I be 3rd on your list? I promise to leave it out in the cold for my own trials...:08:

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

There isn't actually a list. If it survives the winter, one pup is going to a friend in Alabama who has given me some great rare stuff in the past, and another is going to go to the UT Gardens. If it is prolific enough, Randy will probably get one also, but other than those three there is not a list. Maybe in a couple of years when I have so much of it I don't know what to do with it and am mowing over pups in the yard I will consider selling a few, lol.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

in a galaxy far, far away..lives the banana farmer. the imperial army is out to capture this rebel for his resistance to leaving his bananas out in the cold, despite what the empire has deemed to be..... an act of treason! you are doomed "luke bananaman!" but it seems the closer that darth musa gets to luke bananaman, all darth musa hears is "your not my musa!" tune in next week for the continuing saga of "BANANA WARS":hiddenbanana: .

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

That was cute mskitty! :0513:Magicgreen

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

I'm semi-amazed that the growth is kicking in again. Mind you I've noticed my Helens hybrid and some of the Sikki's are still pushing on sporadically in the poly tunnel.

Its kind of hard to get climate data for Yunnan but my guess is that its not dissimilar to some parts of NE India and Burma.

Oh and no offence meant by the way...with regular unleaded gas over here at £1.07 = $2.14 a litre, you need a sense of humor!!!

Kev

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

I am going to feel dumb if you already answered this, but where did you get this plant/seeds?

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

I am pretty amazed at its tenacity...so far. Who knows, it could be a pile of mush by February, which seems like a really long way away right now! The only other banana that is really doing anything right now is Musa basjoo. Actually, they aren't growing at all tonight, considering it is 29F right now, lol. I am going to mulch the base this week, something I should have done already, but we have been fairly mild so I haven't bothered with it.

Taylor, I got it from a friend in Florida, but if I told you I'd have to...well, you know. :2723:

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

hello all,

you all seem pretty knowledgable, so as a novice, I was wondering if you can spare some advice to a newcomer....from UK, but don't hold that against me :) above thread). I've read which Banana are cold hardy but will they be ok for wet weather ? we get down to 0 degrees in winter, but the problem is the constant rain. My current banana looked like it may have been starting to rot before I wrapped it up for winter because it was raining nearly every day ?
Also, it may sound really novice but what exactly is mulch (leaves???)

thanks

Doug

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

mulch: mulch can be a tree thats been cut down and put through a chipper and allower to 'cure' for about 6 months. mulch can be shredded up leaves that you run over with the lawn mower. it can also be pine needles from pine trees. you could even use shredded up paper( as long as its not glossy paper... pictures,etc) i wouldnt advise you using shredded paper as a mulch though. id only use it for your compost pile. your neighbors might complaine. it is pretty much any organic matter that can be used for decoration and insulation of plants. thats the best way i can describe it for you. maybe someone else has a better definition of mulch. it also depends on where you live and whats avaliable.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

hey, thanks for the advice, I appreciate your time. Do you just throw it around the base or does it have to be caged up first then packed around ??

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

are you talking about for winter protection? or are you wanting to know for like summertime? im not to sure about using chipped mulch(trees) for the winter protection. but you could use the leaves for winter protection with the cage method.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

If you want to exlude rootrot, then mix lots of sand and compost into the soil. Also plant your banana on 30 cm. higher groundlevel. They should be just fine in rainy UK.
For M. Itinerans, I've read the leaves remain green to about -2* C. That way the cells don't explode by light freeze. As long as the green leaves or still on my bananas (Sikkimensis and Co.) nothing rots.
Actually, it's the (heavy) freezing that grabs them by the throat. :-)

Once frostbitten, provide them with a roof, so those dead cells can dry out. From what I understand that's not your problem, right? ;-)

Succes

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

I had a prof in College who was chinese with an X name(Xiang) and it was a zh sound. I say

zhee-shwong-bah-nah-en-sis

LOL

I had this one here in NC in the ground from Gabe and left it, hoping my dad would water it and the new sikkimensis Red Tiger seedling I had in the ground and it died in the drought. All the others did alright though.

Zac

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Well, I'll take the Chinese guy's pronunciation over mine, lol! Hayes actually told me how to pronounce it, I was saying it as "Zee-shwong..."

Bummer about yours dying in the drought. Mine did not do too well in the massive heat wave back in August. In fact, leaves burned and the pseudostem started peeling itself back slowly. I think I just have it in too much sun. If it lives through the winter, I may move part of it to a shadier location. That is, IF it lives...

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Hi ,here inthis area the temperature is about 10 to 15°C in those times but only 0°C or less in the morning..Today I removed the protections of the bananas and i find that all are making new leaves even the musellas which are told to be much longer than other species...You can see on the pics what kind of mulch I use...about temperatures I had -7°C or -8°C in November

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

lovely flower.glad to see it has done well in the winter for you.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

thanks, the interest is that maybe it's possible in cold areas to bring edible bananas throw the winter times...

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

BigDog can you give an update on the xishuangbannaensis you have overwintering in the ground. Iam very curious how this banana is doing since your 1st post on it!

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Oh, it's complete mush, lol! No, I don't know how it is really. The base still feels firm, but most of the pseudostem is completely dry and dessicated now. We have had some cold temps here in my cold hole, reaching 6F twice, 7F three times, and I know of at least 2 days below freezing. Don't think we have had consecutive days below freezing, but it was close. My Musa basjoo is lying on the ground though as well.

We'll just have to wait until April to see if it has survived. I'm very excited to see how it has done, and how early it comes back (if it does). If it doesn't make it, I have another Musa itinerans form to try out next year that grows almost as tall as this one, but is native to much higher elevations! Stay tuned...

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Great pictures bikoro, and that huge bud and flower - just amazing. A real showstopper - wish I had one like that.

Cassie

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Frank,
What are your lows? You are one whole zone lower than me...It'd be interesting to see the difference it would make. All the best-

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Taylor,

Knoxville's airport (TYS), our official recording station, has reached 11F for an absolute minimum low this year, and 12F on another occasion. I am at a higher elevation than TYS, and in a bit of a valley on the ridge, so I get cold-air drainage in addition to the colder temps from higher elevation. My absolute minimum low has been around 6F (twice), with a couple of 7F mornings also, but my thermometer is not in a good placement. I need to set it up correctly for more accurate temperature readings. I think I'm actually a couple degrees warmer than the temps I've recorded, but still a couple degrees colder than the airport. We are a long-term zone 7a here, really bordering on zone 7b. The last five winters, assuming we don't reach single digits this winter, have been zone 8a winters. This winter, we've had 2 days (non-consecutive) with a high below freezing, last winter was only one day, and the winter before that we had zero days with a high below freezing.

With bananas, a whole zone makes a huge difference! I mean, they grow Sabal palmettos in VA Beach Taylor, LOL! You guys can grow quite a bit more than I can here.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Well, She is one of the top world Experts in Cornus(dogwoods). I even think she's originally from Yunnan province.

Zac

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Thanks for the info Frank. It is amazing how many Sabal Palmettos they haul in here that die due to neglect and poor timing. I've been trying to get my hands on one but to no avail...yet ;)

Our low this year was 21 and that is probably as low was it will get. That is a solid 9a winter, same as last year.

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Hi Frank

How did the 'Xis' end up after the winter?

I've just had another one arrive from Germany and wondered whether to plan on keeping it out or not

Kev

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Hi Kev. I now believe that this is Musa itinerans var. itinerans, not var. xishuangbannaensis, due to one from the same clone (in a different state) flowering at just over ten feet tall.

However, it is growing like mad! I protected one pseudostem, and left three others unprotected, including the main one. The main one died back to the corm, but the other three all grew back from the same apical meristem. I started another thread about this somewhere. Fantastic, cold-hardy banana!!!!!

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Just one small correction to the pronunciation, the Xi is pronounced in a shorter tone like Shi with the corners of the mouth drawn back like you would when saying "shin". Good job otherwise Bigdog! (I am studying Chinese) Now I can see all of you trying to make this sound, it's fun to imagine the faces everyone is making!!!

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Yep Chironex, Thats what I was doing! hahahahahahahahahhahhahahahha!!

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

Markku Hakinen has recently released a paper about the Chinese M. itinerans entitled: "Musa itinerans (Musaceae) and Its Interspecific Taxa in China" This has excellent charts and photos to aid in identifying the specific variations between Musa itinerans var. itinerans; var. annamica, var, chinensis; var. guangdongensis; var. lechangensis and xishuangbannaensis. I am hopeful that the 'Gigantea' that I bought recently is in fact, Xishuangbannensis. I have two plants of it, so hopefully it will survive. It is noted in this research that xishuangbannensis is cold hardy and can tolerate seasonal frosts in the upper end of its range. (up to 1600 meters ASL) It is second in height only to ingens - growing to 12 m. Another interesting thing is that pups can be as far as 5 m. away from the mother plant. The corms can be a meter tall and half a meter wide to survive winter drought during the dry season, though it grows in moist, fertile soil much the same as ingens.

Here is a link to the article: http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/nov...o-18-01-50.pdf

Re: M. itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis after a few hard frosts
 

I've had contact with Markku Hakinen and he thought xishuangbannaensis was not grown outside of Yunnan in culture yet...?
Kind regards,
Remko.