What is Glui Kai?
 

I see several of the members have this Musa, but I can't find any information about it on the web.
Can anyone help with some information about it?
Thank you!
Susan

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Hi Susan,
Kluay Kai (this is how the Thais spell it), or in Thai, Egg 'naner, belongs to the Sucrier sub group of edible 'naners. In M'sia, the equivalent is the Pisang Mas or Golden 'naner. This is a very sweet and aromatic 'naner and one of the staple varieties sold here. Kluay Kai has a couple of varieties in Thailand.

This is a medium size plant of about 7ft+/- with a yellowish medium sized p-stem. As you can see from the pix, it is named after the short roundish egg like fruits. This is a very good choice for an edible cultivar.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Yup. Pisang Mas, very much like Veinte(misspelled by GB) Cohol.

Thanks, Mr. Tog!

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Now I learned something from you Mister Chong, I didn't know the Veinte Cohol is one of the gang members.Thanks.

Know something? The Kluay Kai and Pisang Mas taste closest to the Musa acuminata subsp malaccensis of which they came from. This is the only cultivar which is almost there to the dot!

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Thanks for the beautiful photo.

:woohoonaner:

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Oops!.....Forgot to show close up of the fruits, thanks for reminding me Caloosamusa. See how short and round they are. Hence the Thais call it Egg 'naner. When ripe, it's a beautiful clean yellow.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

:jalapenonaner:Thank you Tog Tan! That is Awesome!!!!!!

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Sweet! Can't wait to get mine fruiting.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Here is SimplyBananas(Porkpi)'s post last year of photos of Veinte Cohol, Post #26 of this thread:
http://www.bananas.org/f2/veinte-coh...html#post29959

The fruits are more mature than in Mr. Tog's photos, hence, more egg shaped and more yellow, as he described.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Have you planted your Glui Kai in a more permanent location yet? Or were you talking about your VC?

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

What Tog said...

There is no "Glui" in the name. The Thai word for banana is spelled either "Gluay" or "Kluay" (and please make sure you don't forget to pronouce the "l", or it is a COMPLETELY different word, lol), but the first letter is sort of a hybrid between a "k" and a "g." Think of pronouncing a "g" and a "k" at exactly the same time. We don't have a sound like that in the U.S.!

This was the most predominant banana that I saw while in Thailand. It is literally everywhere! I did see it spelled Kluay Khai also. They are very tasty little fruits, and are very good fried also. I probably have pictures of them somewhere.

Frank

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Thank you very much, especially for the photos.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

I could be wrong about this, but I think that this is a Kluay Khai. It was taken in Thailand last year. I just didn't think to take many pics of it because it was literally everywhere.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Pauly still has it, we couldn't arrange to get themover here yet. I have been working too much. Hoping this weekend. I am anxious t see the little buggers. Thanks!

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Although they may be similar in fruit characteristics, I believe 'Veinte Cohol' to be in a different subgroup than 'Pisang Mas'. Just to keep things clear, they should not be regarded as synonymous. The most complete evaluation of 'Veinte Cohol' I can find places it in its own subgroup of AA which I believe is closer to the Inarnibal subgroup (containing 'Senorita') of AA than the Sucrier subgroup (containing 'Pisang Mas').

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Yo Frank, your pix looks like one of the varieties of the Kluay Nam Wah as the peel is a little glaucous and the tip of the fruit if more 'beaked' than the Kluay Kai. Also, the Klauy Nam Wah fruits are slightly angular. The Kluay Nam Wah has more distinct varieties than the Klauy Kai. These two cultivars make up the bulk of the 'naners consumed in Thailand.


As you can see from the pix below of the M'sian Pisang Mas which is an identical twin to the Kluay Kai, the fruits has a smooth peel and the tip is blunt. So far from the Kasaesart Research Station in Bkk, they list the following varieties besides the nominal Kluay Kai;
1. Kluay Kai Bo Lah
2. Klauy Kai Lek Yak Soh Thon
3. Kluay Kai Thong Ngaey
4. Kluay Kai Pratabong
5. Kluay Kai Thong Ruang
Their difference is in their form and taste.

Pix of Pisang Mas, the M'sian version of the Kluay Kai. As you can see the fruits are short, plump and egg like, hence the Thai name. In the background is the Pisang Raja Udang aka Cuban Red for size comparison.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Hey! You're making me hungry and jealous! I'll bet those 'naner plants would not like my 1.5 C overnight temperatures in December-January.

Excellent photos and varietal information. Thanks!

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Thanks, Tog. I guess I didn't get any pictures of the Kluay Khai then! Oh well. Gives me yet another reason to go back, right? ;-)

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

From all the photos I’ve seen of the VC and PM, the fruits are identical, where the base and the tips are rounded or blunt, the skin shiny and tough. In comparison, Señorita fruits have pointed tips, though not quite a bottleneck shape, have thinner skins that break apart easily, almost sticking to the pulp, and not as shiny, and smaller in diameter than the VC or PM. The pulp of the VC and PM are likewise identical in color,i.e. very light golden yellow, while the Señorita is somewhat tinged with pinkish shade. That is why I think that the VC is closer to PM than Señorita.

As for reference, from “Banana Cultivar Names and Synonyms in Southeast Asia”:
In table 3. In the same subgroup: Musa acuminata Diploid AA (dessert):
Phil.: Amas = Malay: Pisang Mas = Thai: Kluai Khai

Phil.: Veinte Cohol = Malay: Pisang Masam = Thai: Kluai Hom Thong Son

(8 other variety follows before the next row)
Phil.: Inarnibal= Malay: Pisang Impat Puluh Hari = Thai: (No equivalent listed)

Phil.: Mama-on= Malay: Pisang Lemak Manis Terenganu = Thai: (No equivalent listed)

Phil.: (No equivalent listed)= Malay: (4 varieties follow)= Thai: (No equivalent listed on the following 2 rows). . . . . . .


In table 4. In the same subgroup: Musa acuminata Diploid AA (dessert):
Of the 8 entries under Philippines, only the first two entries had Malay and Thai equivalents, and only a Thai equivalent on the third:
Phil.: Bu-oy = Malay: Pisang Serindek= Thai: Kluai Lai

Phil.: Eda-an = Malay: Pisang Jarum= Thai: Kluai Nam Thai

Phil.: Ga-o = Malay: (No equivalent listed)= Thai: Kluai Thong Det

In the following 5 Philippine entries in this block, of which Señorita is listed 6th overall, there are no Malay, Indonesian, Thai or Vietnamese equivalent.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

From “Banana Names and Synonyms in Southeast Asia”:
4. Kluay Kai Pratabong ~Kluai Khai Bong= No Phil. nor Malay equivalent, Indon.: Pisang Potho Wangi(Musa acuminata, Triploid AAA, (dessert), (Non-Cavendish)

5. Kluay Kai Thong Ruang~Kluai Thong Ruang= Phil.: Morong Princesa= Malay: Pisang Grandis (Same sub-group as VC and PM)
. . . . . . . . . . ..

Not listed:
Musa x paradisiaca, Triploid AAB, (dessert)
Thai: Kluai Khai Boran#2= Phil.: Radja= Malay: Pisang Raja

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Chong,
I have also read that reference. Those name equivalents are corroborated in the Musa Germplasm Information System and the literature at Tamil Nadu Agricultural University.

I have also noticed that just as Cavendish can refer to a subgroup or the original individual cultivar, Pisang Mas has the same usage. In particular I have repeatedly found:
Pisang Mas (subgroup) = Sucrier (subgroup).

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

That table does not say they are equivalent or in the same subgroup, if you look carefully on those tables, it only lists that they are in the same genome, AA, and what their cultural use is. Subgroups exist within genomes and that document does not make any references as to what subgroups those varieties are in. As stated before, my understanding of the varieties as of now is that neither Pisang Mas, Senorita or Veinte Cohol are synonymous or even in the same subgroup (though they are definitely all have an AA genome), but based on morphology and growth habit, its possible that Veinte Cohol may be closer related to Senorita than to Pisang Mas. This is just a guess. You could be right in that Veinte Cohol is indeed closer related to Pisang Mas, but the information that is out there must be interpreted correctly, and as of yet, they all appear to be completely different cultivars.

There are many bananas with very similar fruit, but there are many more descriptors used to characterize bananas when classifying them. Fruit is just one, and when looking at the whole plant there may be other, more influential traits.

The genomes are not in any way monophyletic, all they state is the ploidy level of the plant and its chromosome composition to the species level of its wild ancestors. However, there were many different subspecies of M. acuminata (and though not fully invesitgated yet, likely different varieties of M. balbisiana as well) that contributed to the evolution of the edible bananas. Plants within a subgroup are very closely related, but other subgroups within the same genome may have had a very different evolutionary history, even though they are arrived at the same genome classification.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

So the cultivar Glui Kai is Musa accuminata ssp ?

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

It is a seedless hybrid, M.a. x M.a with AA genetics. Now M.a. x M.a. probably occurred in the wild millenia ago. Whether the particular subgroup this is from was a mutant or a cultivated selection I have no idea.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

AA genomes are usually derived from a single subspecies of M. acuminata, though hybrids between different subspecies as well as back-crosses are possible. However, based on the info I have now the three cultivars we have been discussing are all classified as being derived from M. acuminata subsp. microcarpa only.

Generally what I have noticed is that in more non-technical, "in the field" type manuals and documents, cultivars are referred to as forms of M. acuminata if they don't have any other genomes present, but in more technical documents, cultivars are rarely referred to as a form of a wild species, instead they are just classified by their ancestry and not associated as being a form of a wild species.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Thank you Gabe!

Musa accuminata microcarpa. This information helps me greatly.

Best wishes:03:

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

so does it fruit fast like a V.C. and what is the max hieght of it

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

I was curious about the height on this one too so I did a search and came up with this thread. It says seven feet plus or minus earlier in this thread. My husband went to Thailand last year and the year before and saw a lot of this banana. He said the fruit is delicious. I'll have to search his pictures for some banana pics; although, a travel mate took this one:

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

So the jist of this.. is if I ordered a Glui Kai I could get one of five varieties..? but they all taste good right(the bottom line)? lol

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

my plants died unfortunately i over watered them they got lost in the jungle of my potted nursery i just had way to many Juvenal plants this summer i wont make that mistake again

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

I posted pictures of mine, now covered in black spots, in the health forum. The spots appeared after I moved it to full sun. Does glui kai prefer shade? It would be great for me if it did, I have planty of shade!

Russell

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

The one pictured above is growing in full sun.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

My newly purchased one has spots too. I just planted it, and it gets shade after about 2:00 p.m. It seems to be doing okay though. It may be experiencing a little translant shock right now. How's yours doing?

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

I've gotten brown spots on several different varieties that were moved into the full sun from partial shade. Once mine went back into partial shade they grew out of it.
(these were all in pots)

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Does anyone know what zone they can live in? And how much light they need?

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Blake, I keep hoping one of our "experts" will shed some light on this too...

1aday, the spots on my plant (again, photos in the health forum) and Clare's aren't brown, they are black, and don't look like sunburn as Nicholas suggested in the other thread.

Clare, my plant came from Jimmmy, along with 3 others that are fine. This is the only one that has spotted. My plant did sunburn a little, but I don't think these spots are sun related. Tony's is in full sun with no spots.

Hmmm..........

R

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Very good question..since the last time I looked there was no entry in the wiki.. So anyone with any info please help get that updated if you could so folks like blake and myself can make an informed decision.. for the Love of Banana's.. Peace Out...

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Yes still no wiki, just that Ime afraid to buy a couple of plants from Agri-starts and then plant it in the ground and it will die form the cold weather...

:(

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

I'm sure they would be a plant you'd have to keep indoors over winter. Especially since TC plants supposedly have less defenses of grown pup due to limited corm.. From what I've read some take a up to 2 years of growth to have the defenses of true natural growth banana..

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Blake, Glui Kai is a synonym of Kluai Khai. It is from New Guinea, so the cold hardiness is likely at least zone 10. Also, note that Agristarts sells plants 72 at a time and you'll need a resale license.

My experience is 2 months, not 2 years.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

What if I wasent going to re-sell them...? I did not know that I thought that they sold plants for people not to busnesses. Any thing els about Agristarts that I need to know? ;)

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Doesn't matter. They don't want to deal with tax and so they require all their buyers to have a resale license. They also have minimum order requirements (1 tray) and fees for mixing varieties on a tray. See their website for more details, or send your sales rep (see top of their availability web page) an email.

Agri-Starts, Inc. - Availability

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Well Mr. Richard I was referring to not just growth but the plant being able to deal with a frost and not die. I believe Mr. Blake is in Zone 7 and the last thing someone wants to do is loose plants unless its an informed decision and you can live with it. I think Mr. Jimmy says that " they can live or die". Like nature intended as per dealing with cold temps. Me I say screw Jack Frost I have something for him... lol I know this kinda off topic but no one knows what zone (k)Glui Khai is really zoned for..

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Me too!

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

This banana seems to be all over Thailand and perhaps other parts of Asia. My guess is that it is only hardy to Zone 10. I wouldn't accept any banana as hardy to colder zones unless it is well-documented that it can survive in lower zones. I know that some businesses have the hardiness of each banana available in their online catalogs, which is helpful.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Here's an interesting link about extending your zone: The Cutting Edge - A Spray to Change Your Hardiness Zone?

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Thought y'all might find this interesting, was searching around google for Kluai Khai and found this article:

Improvement and Production of Banana Kluai Khai Group Through Biotechnology
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

Some highlights:

Transplanting medium. Growth of Kluai Khai fron tissue culture after transplanting to soil mixture of coconut fiber : sand : organic matter : cow manure : soil in the ratio of 1:1:0.5:0.5 was the best compare to the other formulars.
Now, where to buy coconut fiber...

Study on fertlizer application. Growth of Kluai Nom Sao in the field with weekly application of 0.2% urea was better than the 0.5% potassium nitrate application and water application.
So... pee in a bucket, dilute and apply? :)

Andy

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

Coconut fiber or coir is found in pet stores, I'm told. I recently got some blocks at Costco of all places (see pic below). I planted all my adeniums in half coconut coir chunks and half potting soil. It drains really well. I also have purchased the fiber from Western Farm Service in Oxnard by the bale, but I prefer the chips to the fiber. It did not, however, dry out fast enough for my AeAe's, which died in it, but that was probably my fault for watering too much. It should be rinsed prior to use to avoid any salt.

Re: What is Glui Kai?
 

I'd never use Coir straight -- unless planting something like swamp cypress. As a mix, the ground Coir in the bricks is much better than coarse chips. You should be able to purchase it from an agricultural supplier (not a retail nursery) for about $6 per 1/2 cubic foot brick.